What the hell, Steam?

[craig234]

So, Steam has the right any time it wants, to modify the customers' rights, the legal agreements we signed up for, and if we don't agree to the changes we lose all access to our purchases?

[Brian9824]

Postat inițial de Purple:

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

False your a bit mixed up, you quoted section 11 - https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#11

If you look at the most recent one you will note section TEN which I posted is the one on the old/new that mentions where it occurs.

Section 10 - old


Section 10 - new


As you can see the jurisdiction mentioning the Washington courts remains the same between the two.

Arbitration is NOT conducted in the courts, therefore section 10 of previous agreement had no affect on venue for the arbitration.

New agreement removes the arbitration method. Making everything I said correct, and you are wrong since you are talking about something different.

Just because it CAN go thru the court doesn't mean it has to. Both parties can still agree to arbitration, in fact Valve probably would on a case by case basis since it benefits them.

All that was removed was the BINDING arbitration clause meaning you aren't FORCED to use arbitration. It still remains an option though.

[76561199559798421]

just click agree and get on with your life , its pointless nonsense that isn't gonna change the fact the games you already own, and will buy in the future are pointless dribble.

[Squirrel With Acorn]

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

Postat inițial de Purple:

Arbitration is NOT conducted in the courts, therefore section 10 of previous agreement had no affect on venue for the arbitration.

New agreement removes the arbitration method. Making everything I said correct, and you are wrong since you are talking about something different.

Just because it CAN go thru the court doesn't mean it has to. Both parties can still agree to arbitration, in fact Valve probably would on a case by case basis since it benefits them.

All that was removed was the BINDING arbitration clause meaning you aren't FORCED to use arbitration. It still remains an option though.

No where does it say it's still an option. No where does it say that Valve would pay for the arbritration fees.

[Brian9824]

Postat inițial de Purple:

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

Just because it CAN go thru the court doesn't mean it has to. Both parties can still agree to arbitration, in fact Valve probably would on a case by case basis since it benefits them.

All that was removed was the BINDING arbitration clause meaning you aren't FORCED to use arbitration. It still remains an option though.

No where does it say it's still an option. No where does it say that Valve would pay for the arbritration fees.

Correct, it wouldn't list every option. it doesn't state anywhere that its NOT an option either or that its not allowed. Courts can and do suggest arbitration all the time as an alternative. What was removed was the clause that REQUIRED it, it no longer being required doesn't mean its not an option. Arbitration has always required both sides to agree either willingly or part of an existing contract.

You are correct in that it doesn't state if valve will or will not pay arbitration fees.

[Yzal]

A few people in this thread have mentioned a "yellow banner", i haven't seen anything like that.
Where is it suppossed to be?

[Brian9824]

Postat inițial de Yzal:

A few people in this thread have mentioned a "yellow banner", i haven't seen anything like that.
Where is it suppossed to be?

What country are you in? Some countries like the EU, Australia, and a few others never had arbitration as an option so it had no impact on the users of those countries.

[Yzal]

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

Postat inițial de Yzal:

A few people in this thread have mentioned a "yellow banner", i haven't seen anything like that.
Where is it suppossed to be?

What country are you in? Some countries like the EU, Australia, and a few others never had arbitration as an option so it had no impact on the users of those countries.

Argentina. I got the news yesterday about the SSA change but that's it.

[Brian9824]

Postat inițial de Yzal:

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

What country are you in? Some countries like the EU, Australia, and a few others never had arbitration as an option so it had no impact on the users of those countries.

Argentina. I got the news yesterday about the SSA change but that's it.

Might not be applicable to you then. it would be an account alert. Can also restart your client sometimes that refreshes it

[Yzal]

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

Postat inițial de Yzal:

Argentina. I got the news yesterday about the SSA change but that's it.

Might not be applicable to you then. it would be an account alert. Can also restart your client sometimes that refreshes it

Oh ok, gonna try that. Just don't wanna run into issues in the future. Thanks.

[Start_Running]

Postat inițial de Purple:

Postat inițial de Start_Running:

Valve has basically just said. "No more middle man. See you in court.". and considering arbitration as a process tends to be stacked in the company's favour...this actually benefits the honest consumer.

Scummyu lawyers and lawfirms...not so much.

It's kinda funny how people wil decry the addition of a forced arbitration clause, and then turn around and decry the removal of a forced arbitration clause. People. Pick a lane.

Courts are even more stacked in favor of the corporation.

44% of consumer initiated arbitration go in favor of the consumer, where as 30% of consumer initiated court cases go in the favor of the consumer.

That basically says that 70% iof the cases are without merit. That's not stacked that's just consumers thinking they are in the right and being proven wrong.

Such happens when you don't actually take the time to UNDERSTAND the laws.

Postat inițial de Purple:

Plus Valve just put a huge financial barrier for the consumer to do a legal dispute against Valve unless the person lives close to King County Washington provided they can afford the legal dispute fees and other costs.

Case in point. You don't have to be in the state. the case is just being tried based on the laws governing the that state. TYou don't need to be physically there. THat's an issue for your lawyer to deal with.

Postat inițial de Purple:

Otherwise if you don't have enough money to pay court fees and other costs...

up and that little upfront cost will likely cut down on nmeritless lawsuits jand arbitration that basically just allowed people to keep spamming arbitration to more or less harrass the company.

Postat inițial de Purple:

At least with the arbritration agreement Valve paid for all the fees and it could be conducted over the phone or Zoom.

So can the legal court proceedings. Remember. Only your lawyer needs to be present at best.
And again Valve has simply decided that they aren't obligated to enter arbitration. You can still go through arbiutration but it's at Valve discrtion. So if they feel you're wasting their time or just spamming.. they have the option of just saying. "See you in court. Bye"

Postat inițial de Brian9824:

Postat inițial de Yzal:

Argentina. I got the news yesterday about the SSA change but that's it.

Might not be applicable to you then. it would be an account alert. Can also restart your client sometimes that refreshes it

For some regions the changes basically don't affect them. More or less if you're outside the US and canada the policy doesn't change because this is kinda what your policy defaulted to in the first place.

[CSDX]

I've never been more confused about anything in my life. Everything I'm reading in here somehow feels so divided and full of arguing that I feel like American politics isn't this volatile.

That's the most I'm saying about politics and will not engage with anyone else who brings it up, as I was just making a comparison.

[zirxa]

is there other sites like steam? maybe even better lol

[Rizilliant]

Postat inițial de pckirk:

already multi "New Threads" have already been created..... going to be a long night of off topic spam in this sub-forum by morning....

Why do you care?

[CSDX]

Postat inițial de zirxa:

is there other sites like steam? maybe even better lol

There's EGS, but while I'm personally fine with them, they still have a lot of controversy with them such as the CEO loving Elon Musk, them being okay with blockchain crap, that one guy who had his card info re-added to his account cause Epic actually contacted his bank and asked for the info, etc.

Ntm they're not exactly playable on Steam Deck.

It's not exactly easy trying to avoid a near-monopoly these days. Just look at Disney. Most of the biggest movies in 2019 alone were by them, whether it be Fox or Marvel or their own studios.

[Henry]

what is happening