OMG people...STOP!!!!!!

[vatrovia]

As "Chika Ogiue" "explained,All that changed was that stores now have to add a piece of text explaining what has been true for 54 odd years (and what has been readily described in most terms of service, the same terms you agree to whenever you bought on Steam).

Physical, digital, it doesn't matter. You have never owned a game made by someone other than yourself. You have always purchased a license to play for as long as the game is available to be played -- which is not, and has never been, guaranteed to be forever".

[Vilkas]

I enjoy what places like GOG do for older titles but people need to realize that this isn’t a NEW change to the subscriber license agreement; it’s always been this way but people don’t read.

GOG (and other online retailers) are also selling the same license. You get to download offline installers which I admit is nice, but otherwise you’re still getting the same thing. Hell, physical media is still the same thing you’re just using a disc to verify a license as opposed to the digital retailers database checks. Buy games where you want to, but this is a media issue and not exclusive to Steam by any means.

[Bllasae]

Thanks for posting a new thread to highlight an out-of-context post, I appreciate it.

[Zero]

Tito Shivan の投稿を引用：

Zero の投稿を引用：

I can also do what I want with what's on it. You can't stop me and they can't stop me.

[Laughs in Nintendo]

It's literally impossible for them to know. They don't have a secret agent living in my house.

Doctor Zalgo の投稿を引用：

Zero の投稿を引用：

I can also do what I want with what's on it. You can't stop me and they can't stop me.

Legally, they can send you a written instruction to stop using it, then when they take you to court, they can get an order from a judge enforcing it. If you don't follow that order, eventually you'll be put in jail for contempt.

You're confusing 'hard to enforce' with 'I can do what I want'.

PS: just remember, any time you think about how copyright law is complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, just remember that the artists grandchildren are entitled to a lifetime revenue stream for the artists work.

No, they can't, unless I'm making copies and distributing it to other people AND they find out. I said *I* can do whatever I want with it, not "I can let other people do whatever they want with mine."

FYI, you ARE legally allowed to copy and emulate anything that you have a physical copy of. Yes, that is a law. Don't argue, you'll just be factually incorrect.

[Ȼħⱥꞥꞥēł8753452]

Zero の投稿を引用：

Tito Shivan の投稿を引用：

[Laughs in Nintendo]

It's literally impossible for them to know. They don't have a secret agent living in my house.

Doctor Zalgo の投稿を引用：

Legally, they can send you a written instruction to stop using it, then when they take you to court, they can get an order from a judge enforcing it. If you don't follow that order, eventually you'll be put in jail for contempt.

You're confusing 'hard to enforce' with 'I can do what I want'.

PS: just remember, any time you think about how copyright law is complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, just remember that the artists grandchildren are entitled to a lifetime revenue stream for the artists work.

No, they can't, unless I'm making copies and distributing it to other people AND they find out. I said *I* can do whatever I want with it, not "I can let other people do whatever they want with mine."

FYI, you ARE legally allowed to copy and emulate anything that you have a physical copy of. Yes, that is a law. Don't argue, you'll just be factually incorrect.

No use, they're the "You will own nothing and be happy" kind of folks..

Some people are surprisingly comfy with companies slowly screwing them over if it means flexing "intellectual superiority" on them.

[Cray]

Vylkas の投稿を引用：

GOG (and other online retailers) are also selling the same license. You get to download offline installers which I admit is nice, but otherwise you’re still getting the same thing.

True, but as you mention they're also giving far more reasonable terms. An actual offline installer you can keep around in case you're offline, the service goes down, or you just want to keep playing the game the way it was when you purchased. You have reasonable expectancy of getting to keep playing what you paid for. On steam you don't. At all.

It's pretty clear that what people have a problem with on eg. steam is the licensing + terms + distribution method. How people put it varies, but it seems like everything anyone is unhappy about here is not so much the "license is not ownership", but how it actually works in practice:

You have to download the game. If you go online, they have to be updated when the publisher chooses, and playing them is disabled until you update. They can change the game drastically, break it, add extra launchers, require a new account signups, or throw in a new 3rd party license or alter the old one. They can even delete it completely if they want to.

Worse yet, publishers sometimes change terms to include their "right" to collect user information and mine data, and the game is held hostage for it. Don't like it? Can't play any more. Your game and saves are effectively locked behind a new ToS you didn't agree to when you purchased, and you have no recourse. Either agree to give away data for free, or the game is gone. Pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ stuff.

Basically, seems everyone's getting fed up with the fact that making a purchase offers no guarantees whatsoever.

It's also obvious that they didn't make this state of affairs as clear as they should have, or we wouldn't have so many people angry over it now that they were forced to clarify it.

The terms are crap, the forced updating is crap, and the blanket cover of "we can do anything with all of this at any time, for any reason" is crap. And they still had the temerity to put a button reading "Buy this game" in the store when the purchase was not for buying the game.

[kitt]

ToS doesn't mean much when they are not supported by law..

[1200V2]

We just need to stop buying things that we do not own after purchase.
If we do that the problem will go away.

[Doctor Zalgo]

xBCxRangers の投稿を引用：

Why don't they just come out with some legacy launcher or REAL offline mode, that makes it in so they cannot update or touch your games?

I mean all this tomfoolery and licences word salads, are going to come to an end one day, and one state, one FTC, or country or whomever, is going to make it known we are leasing, and not owning these games.

Just do it, Mr Newell

The movie, music, tv, gaming, etc industries have poured and will continue to pour billions of dollars into making sure this doesn't happen. I think even tech companies would get involved if there was a serious attempt at forcing the discussion.

[Doctor Zalgo]

Zero の投稿を引用：

Tito Shivan の投稿を引用：

[Laughs in Nintendo]

It's literally impossible for them to know. They don't have a secret agent living in my house.

Doctor Zalgo の投稿を引用：

Legally, they can send you a written instruction to stop using it, then when they take you to court, they can get an order from a judge enforcing it. If you don't follow that order, eventually you'll be put in jail for contempt.

You're confusing 'hard to enforce' with 'I can do what I want'.

PS: just remember, any time you think about how copyright law is complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, just remember that the artists grandchildren are entitled to a lifetime revenue stream for the artists work.

No, they can't, unless I'm making copies and distributing it to other people AND they find out. I said *I* can do whatever I want with it, not "I can let other people do whatever they want with mine."

FYI, you ARE legally allowed to copy and emulate anything that you have a physical copy of. Yes, that is a law. Don't argue, you'll just be factually incorrect.

Is that what the contract you agreed to when you bought it said?

[Doctor Zalgo]

Channel_701 の投稿を引用：

Zero の投稿を引用：

It's literally impossible for them to know. They don't have a secret agent living in my house.


No, they can't, unless I'm making copies and distributing it to other people AND they find out. I said *I* can do whatever I want with it, not "I can let other people do whatever they want with mine."

FYI, you ARE legally allowed to copy and emulate anything that you have a physical copy of. Yes, that is a law. Don't argue, you'll just be factually incorrect.

No use, they're the "You will own nothing and be happy" kind of folks..

Some people are surprisingly comfy with companies slowly screwing them over if it means flexing "intellectual superiority" on them.

The first step in changing something is to stop lying to yourself about the fact that its broken. This guy isn't there yet. I don't think you are either.

[Tito Shivan]

kitt の投稿を引用：

ToS doesn't mean much when they are not supported by law..

You need to get a judge to actually say that though.

Doctor Zalgo の投稿を引用：

The movie, music, tv, gaming, etc industries have poured and will continue to pour billions of dollars into making sure this doesn't happen. I think even tech companies would get involved if there was a serious attempt at forcing the discussion.

Games
As
A
Service

Push publishers hard enough and that's where the road leads to.

Cray の投稿を引用：

Basically, seems everyone's getting fed up with the fact that making a purchase offers no guarantees whatsoever.

Majority of people don't give a damn over it. This is just this month hot topic for content creators. Hence why everybody seems to be posting.

[Start_Running]

Walach の投稿を引用：

I believe it's mostly a definition thing.

Take, for example, a disk with a game on it.
I don't own the game in all forms, concepts, the code, and more.
I can't make copies of it to sell, I can't take someone elses disk with the game, nor can I get a new one for free.

But I do own the disk, and what's on it in a singular sense. I can paint the disc, I can change the cover art, I can snap it in half and set it on fire.
I can open it on my computer, launch it, and install it. And I can delete the game and its files from my computer whenever I want.

Walach の投稿を引用：

I
The "you cannot modify" part of most contracts when it comes to games aren't being upheld in all instances, but that doesn't make it a right to disregard it. But as it's so common, I believe only a court would be able to put it to bed, and only in specific scenarios as it's not a black and white issue as both answers are bad in a global sense.
If one can't modify, then no mods may exist.
If one can modify, then you also own the right to rewrite anything in the game on your copies of it.

There's not much confusion. dev/pubs as the rights holders are free to selectively permit things at their leisure. A Mod that makes the game more fun, or adds new weapons and stuff...no harm no foul by most devs./ A Mod that changes the artwork to questionable pornography of dyubious legality.. yeah that will vbring a legal hammer down at Mach 5.

And then there are some companies that have exactly zero chill... like Nintendo

Walach の投稿を引用：

I
Now, when it comes to licenses, it's a little more complicated, but, I'd say, in the end, the same issues exist. I may not own the game anymore as before when I had a physical object, but I own the licence to access the game. And, just like before, there are contracts where you're not allowed to modify the game for your licence, but it's still a common event to modify the code. And just like before, I believe this will need to go through the courts a lot more and on different levels than it's already been done.

There's not much difference. If you ever read the REad Me fuile that came on those disks of old or, or the various screens during install you'd notice that they do speak of granting license.
And the situation for mods hasn't changed much. The only real change that has come with the digital age is that it is much easier for dev/pubs to enforce the terms of the contracts and punish breaches of contract.

That's basically it.

As always Mods are kinda one of those at the dev/[ubs choosing.

Walach の投稿を引用：

I
All this also apply differently on so many levels that I'm mostly trying to be as broad as possible. Any specifc issue or law will need said specific answer to it. This will probably, in my opinion, not be dealt with for tens of years.

[Paapuli]

I on the other hand welcome this concept.
Every post complaining about this is one more proof that consumers are living under a rock and seeing light from a crack for the first time.
Maybe we can start fighting back on encroachments like we used to long ago.

meanwhile whoever comes up and starts defending the practice of license-only-owning, or approving any parts of it in general by claiming that every Terms Of Service states so when it's a common fact that you need a level of neurotic aneurysm to even consider reading the TOS of any service past the first three words.

This stuff only exists because we, the consumer, allow it to.
Corporations have backpedaled on draconian terms of service because of backlash before.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/microsoft-pulls-a-180-reverses-xbox-one-always-on-drm-and-used-games-policy/

It's just a shame that it only takes time to boil a happy frog alive.

[vatrovia]

Channel_701 の投稿を引用：

Zero の投稿を引用：

It's literally impossible for them to know. They don't have a secret agent living in my house.


No, they can't, unless I'm making copies and distributing it to other people AND they find out. I said *I* can do whatever I want with it, not "I can let other people do whatever they want with mine."

FYI, you ARE legally allowed to copy and emulate anything that you have a physical copy of. Yes, that is a law. Don't argue, you'll just be factually incorrect.

No use, they're the "You will own nothing and be happy" kind of folks..

Some people are surprisingly comfy with companies slowly screwing them over if it means flexing "intellectual superiority" on them.

Than don't buy anything here!! If you hate to this extend....leave instead of making a huge thing out of it....it's that simple!

[Start_Running]

Paapuli の投稿を引用：

I on the other hand welcome this concept.
Every post complaining about this is one more proof that consumers are living under a rock and seeing light from a crack for the first time.
Maybe we can start fighting back on encroachments like we used to long ago.

When have gamersever fought back against anything to any tangible effect?

Paapuli の投稿を引用：

meanwhile whoever comes up and starts defending the practice of license-only-owning, or approving any parts of it in general by claiming that every Terms Of Service states so when it's a common fact that you need a level of neurotic aneurysm to even consider reading the TOS of any service past the first three words.

No you just need a shred of concentration and the ability to read at middle-school level.
Oh, and personal responsibility, with a pinch of common sense.
I mean only an idiot agrees to terms they don't knowabout. Only someone with brain damage so severe they become invisible to zombies would sign a contract without reading it.

Paapuli の投稿を引用：

This stuff only exists because we, the consumer, allow it to.
Corporations have backpedaled on draconian terms of service because of backlash before.

https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/microsoft-pulls-a-180-reverses-xbox-one-always-on-drm-and-used-games-policy/

Yeah that was xbox. And they were mostly scared by the backlash from retailers not consumers...Joke is. All that has and is slowly coming to pass as retailers dwindle in power and influence.

Paapuli の投稿を引用：

It's just a shame that it only takes time to boil a happy frog alive.

M'dude this sort of this has been around likely longer than you've been alive.