LAGRIE Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:44am
EU game preservation, July 31st.
This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.


https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2024/000007_en?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1_E6BvA51xyUWrqeBBzHxarAelyT4swguwQV73TJuE-Bq8Z86LoVhXfms_aem_y4lUeYuZaATZQuFKIXPBeg

A total of 1mil votes are needed.
Please share, we need this to go trough, so games do not die or are forgotten.
We have to own our products !

July 31st will be the start of the vote.

Some info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDVjZu_l6J4

Info on brussels effect ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect

Its not my intent to start a war between people, this is not us vs them. This is just a discussion about a bill. Please keep it civil.

Ross started it all, more info on the initiative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w70Xc9CStoE&t=712s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-g1_nZKC-k
Last edited by LAGRIE; Jul 20, 2024 @ 11:18am
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Showing 1-15 of 81 comments
xBCxRangers Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:47am 
Our folks in Europe, ahead of us, again. Good luck.
Komarimaru Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:50am 
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.


https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2024/000007_en?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1_E6BvA51xyUWrqeBBzHxarAelyT4swguwQV73TJuE-Bq8Z86LoVhXfms_aem_y4lUeYuZaATZQuFKIXPBeg

A total of 1mil votes are needed.
Please share, we need this to go trough, so games do not die or are forgotten.
We have to own our products !

August 31st will be the start of the vote.
Last I checked, the EU already ruled on this for digital goods? And none of those ideas passed since not feasible.

And it would be quiet hard to try and enforce such a thing. How far are we talking that it functions? Under what conditions? You can't force a developer to have continued support for a product that was perfect on release to not be perfect a generation down the road.
Last edited by Komarimaru; Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:51am
LAGRIE Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:51am 
Correction, July 31st is the vote.
Dont forget to share !!!
Dragbag Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:53am 
Nice posting it here. Hopefully we'll get that 1 million with ease, would be a great "Brussels effect" to get nice legislation in place.
Dragbag Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:54am 
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.


https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2024/000007_en?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1_E6BvA51xyUWrqeBBzHxarAelyT4swguwQV73TJuE-Bq8Z86LoVhXfms_aem_y4lUeYuZaATZQuFKIXPBeg

A total of 1mil votes are needed.
Please share, we need this to go trough, so games do not die or are forgotten.
We have to own our products !

August 31st will be the start of the vote.
Last I checked, the EU already ruled on this for digital goods? And none of those ideas passed since not feasible.

And it would be quiet hard to try and enforce such a thing. How far are we talking that it functions? Under what conditions? You can't force a developer to have continued support for a product that was perfect on release to not be perfect a generation down the road.

Enforcement would be like in the case of The Crew. No game design that intentionally makes what clearly is single player functionality, and gate it behind online servers that need to be up, and whoops, they didn't feel like hosting those servers anymore after less than a decade.

In automotive suppliers and industry overall have service support requirements of 15-20 years. Would be nice to have at least this.
Last edited by Dragbag; Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:57am
LAGRIE Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.


https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/initiatives/details/2024/000007_en?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1_E6BvA51xyUWrqeBBzHxarAelyT4swguwQV73TJuE-Bq8Z86LoVhXfms_aem_y4lUeYuZaATZQuFKIXPBeg

A total of 1mil votes are needed.
Please share, we need this to go trough, so games do not die or are forgotten.
We have to own our products !

August 31st will be the start of the vote.
Last I checked, the EU already ruled on this for digital goods? And none of those ideas passed since not feasible.

And it would be quiet hard to try and enforce such a thing. How far are we talking that it functions? Under what conditions? You can't force a developer to have continued support for a product that was perfect on release to not be perfect a generation down the road.


From the article itself ->

"This initiative calls to require publishers that sell or license videogames to consumers in the European Union (or related features and assets sold for videogames they operate) to leave said videogames in a functional (playable) state.

Specifically, the initiative seeks to prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher.

The initiative does not seek to acquire ownership of said videogames, associated intellectual rights or monetization rights, neither does it expect the publisher to provide resources for the said videogame once they discontinue it while leaving it in a reasonably functional (playable) state."

In other words live service like games that end their run should still be playable (offline) after end of dev cycle.

Its not about patching a game or keeping it up to date, its about keeping the product on a store and in someones library where you can launch it, with or without community patches.
Komarimaru Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by Dragbag:
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
Last I checked, the EU already ruled on this for digital goods? And none of those ideas passed since not feasible.

And it would be quiet hard to try and enforce such a thing. How far are we talking that it functions? Under what conditions? You can't force a developer to have continued support for a product that was perfect on release to not be perfect a generation down the road.

Enforcement would be like in the case of The Crew. No game design that intentionally makes what clearly is single player functionality, and gate it behind online servers that need to be up, and whoops, they didn't feel like hosting those servers anymore after less than a decade.
The Crew, much as people hate it, sadly was totally legal in the EU. It was an online only game, like many MMO's. The EU isn't going to start enforcing support for such games to be single player due to copyright reasons sadly.

So, hope this isn't trying to enforce that kinda thing, since would never pass in the EU, would prefer an example that would pass.
Dragbag Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:01am 
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
Originally posted by Dragbag:

Enforcement would be like in the case of The Crew. No game design that intentionally makes what clearly is single player functionality, and gate it behind online servers that need to be up, and whoops, they didn't feel like hosting those servers anymore after less than a decade.
The Crew, much as people hate it, sadly was totally legal in the EU. It was an online only game, like many MMO's. The EU isn't going to start enforcing support for such games to be single player due to copyright reasons sadly.

So, hope this isn't trying to enforce that kinda thing, since would never pass in the EU, would prefer an example that would pass.

From what I can tell here is that you haven't actually played it. the only reason it was tagged "mmo" was bandwagon, and as a form of DRM. You can perfectly play through the game with all features and story without every interacting with another player... but somehow Ubisoft felt like locking it behind a server.
Komarimaru Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:07am 
Originally posted by Dragbag:
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
The Crew, much as people hate it, sadly was totally legal in the EU. It was an online only game, like many MMO's. The EU isn't going to start enforcing support for such games to be single player due to copyright reasons sadly.

So, hope this isn't trying to enforce that kinda thing, since would never pass in the EU, would prefer an example that would pass.

From what I can tell here is that you haven't actually played it. the only reason it was tagged "mmo" was bandwagon, and as a form of DRM. You can perfectly play through the game with all features and story without every interacting with another player... but somehow Ubisoft felt like locking it behind a server.
I have played it, bought it on xbox some time ago. It was more than a DRM. Why the revival project requires a lot of files to download to play it offline. And why it's taking so long currently to get near more functionality other than just driving around randomly.

Also, no different than an MMO. The files are all on your PC for the most part. WoW, FFXIV, etc etc.

Why things are more tricky than people realize. Again, not approving what was done with The Crew, but thus far they've more legal rights than the server revival project that could have their discord nuked and files removed.
Last edited by Komarimaru; Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:09am
LAGRIE Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:10am 
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
Originally posted by Dragbag:

From what I can tell here is that you haven't actually played it. the only reason it was tagged "mmo" was bandwagon, and as a form of DRM. You can perfectly play through the game with all features and story without every interacting with another player... but somehow Ubisoft felt like locking it behind a server.
I have played it, bought it on xbox some time ago. It was more than a DRM. Why the revival project requires a lot of files to download to play it offline. And why it's taking so long currently to get near more functionality other than just driving around randomly.

Also, no different than an MMO. The files are all on your PC for the most part. WoW, FFXIV, etc etc.

Why things are more tricky than people realize. Again, not approving what was done with The Crew, but thus far they've more legal rights than the server revival project that could have their discord nuked and files removed.

games like the crew cant be helped anny longer sinse they where made with the idea of only online.

this bill will force devs to always include offline options. and thats what we need.
Last edited by LAGRIE; Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:11am
Mad Scientist Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:15am 
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
games like the crew cant be helped anny longer sinse they where made with the idea of only online.

this bill will force devs to always include offline options. and thats what we need.
I somehow doubt it forces offline options.

Realistically, trying to force developers to always have an offline option will just result in shutdowns or more waivers even for EU users, else removing sales entirely from the eu region as people don't like being forced into what they don't want to offer.

What that region doesn't realize is they often do way more harm than good, and Devs could react in a way where you must use their always-online service in order to login to verify the license in order to play which is what most clients already do unless the game has no drm protections which is more something like gog.

The best way to get more offline-available is to vote with your wallet.
LAGRIE Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:18am 
Originally posted by Mad Scientist:
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
games like the crew cant be helped anny longer sinse they where made with the idea of only online.

this bill will force devs to always include offline options. and thats what we need.
I somehow doubt it forces offline options.

Realistically, trying to force developers to always have an offline option will just result in shutdowns or more waivers even for EU users, else removing sales entirely from the eu region as people don't like being forced into what they don't want to offer.

What that region doesn't realize is they often do way more harm than good, and Devs could react in a way where you must use their always-online service in order to login to verify the license in order to play which is what most clients already do unless the game has no drm protections which is more something like gog.

The best way to get more offline-available is to vote with your wallet.

i also doubt devs would stop selling in the EU. Its a huge market.
DRM stores can still exist and always will, the reasoning here is to give the game to the user. if it shuts down we should still have access. (in a playable state as mentioned in the article)
Last edited by LAGRIE; Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:18am
Brian9824 Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:21am 
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
games like the crew cant be helped anny longer sinse they where made with the idea of only online.

this bill will force devs to always include offline options. and thats what we need.

It does no such thing, its another of the EU's completely useless suggestions that will do nothing because its riddled with exceptions in order for it to be legal and not be overturned. if its ever made into a law

The key phrase is
Specifically, the initiative seeks to prevent the remote disabling of videogames by the publishers, before providing reasonable means to continue functioning of said videogames without the involvement from the side of the publisher.

Now name one game that was made unplayable that didn't require the involvment of the publisher, aka servers. The only exception I can think of is the very rare case of DRM like the old Securerom DRM i think it was going kaput and leaving games unplayable.

The overwhelming majority of games that become unplayable today are because they require online servers and that won't change as they can't force developers to maintain servers or re-design their game to be able to run in an offline environment. That exception kills any impact, its just symbolic.
Last edited by Brian9824; Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:22am
Komarimaru Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:24am 
Originally posted by LAGRIE:
Originally posted by Mad Scientist:
I somehow doubt it forces offline options.

Realistically, trying to force developers to always have an offline option will just result in shutdowns or more waivers even for EU users, else removing sales entirely from the eu region as people don't like being forced into what they don't want to offer.

What that region doesn't realize is they often do way more harm than good, and Devs could react in a way where you must use their always-online service in order to login to verify the license in order to play which is what most clients already do unless the game has no drm protections which is more something like gog.

The best way to get more offline-available is to vote with your wallet.

i also doubt devs would stop selling in the EU. Its a huge market.
DRM stores can still exist and always will, the reasoning here is to give the game to the user. if it shuts down we should still have access. (in a playable state as mentioned in the article)
It's not that they'd want to, it's due to the fact they would have to.

If left in a situation where fines and penalties are imposed on them to service outdated games, publishers will do what they think is best and pull out, or start charging far far more in the EU.
LAGRIE Jul 19, 2024 @ 8:29am 
Originally posted by Komarimaru:
Originally posted by LAGRIE:

i also doubt devs would stop selling in the EU. Its a huge market.
DRM stores can still exist and always will, the reasoning here is to give the game to the user. if it shuts down we should still have access. (in a playable state as mentioned in the article)
It's not that they'd want to, it's due to the fact they would have to.

If left in a situation where fines and penalties are imposed on them to service outdated games, publishers will do what they think is best and pull out, or start charging far far more in the EU.


there are tons of old games on steam that people can access when they want that are not updated or dont even run well on the new OS. And that's fine.

The reasoning is to just keep the game from dissapearing. The only other games that can ignore this are IP based that have liscenses. Or free MMOrpgs.
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Date Posted: Jul 19, 2024 @ 7:44am
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