Steam being sued in UK.

[C1REX]

So Steam being sued in UK.

Two reasons:
- steam is accused that 30% cut is too high and unfair
- price parity rule. I personally wasn’t aware of that but steam apparently requires games to be sold at the same prices in other stores even if other stores have smaller cut.

Thoughts?

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/valve-sued-for-allegedly-overcharging-14-million-uk-steam-players#

Sure, Steam has strong market domination but is it their fault that any other store/launcher suck so bad?

[Tito Shivan]

Messaggio originale di smokerob79:

it is.....old timers that were here for the start of steaming pile all the way back with half life 2 will understand well the tactics valve used on other game store to shut them down.....we never needed steaming pile and they have always been dirty......

Which... other stores? When Steam launched online storefronts weren't precisely plentiful.

Messaggio originale di MrNewell123:

Well, they keep all this up, much more than that forthcoming.

And is all that forthcoming... coming anytime soon?

Messaggio originale di lailaamell:

valve should take 5% at very most cut sure prices wont decrease for the consumer its just more profit for the publishers

Yet Epic taking 12% doesn't seem to make ends meet.

[RiO]

Messaggio originale di kingjames488:

the UK blocked microsoft from implementing a feature to accommodate edge security cases like crowdstrike because they said it would be "anti-competitive" or w.e...

It wasn't the UK. It was the EU.

And the full context was that Microsoft wanted to bar any and all third parties from the Windows kernel, apart from a few handpicked ones like Nvidia and AMD absolutely needing to have hardware drivers running at the kernel level for performance reasons.

This would indeed have given rise to anti-competitive cases, because MS would have sole control over who gets kernel access, can make their own business dealings over that - could e.g. bar new players entering the market for high-performance graphics through dealings with Nvidia/AMD, etc.

So the EU told them: "Lock out the kernel, and we're going to hit you with an anti-trust charge."

So MS didn't.
What they did do is set up a requirement for kernel modules to be signed with a MS-approved certificate. You need to run Windows with special developer mode settings to be able to load unsigned kernel modules and iirc those settings require at least a Pro SKU, won't work on the standard Home ones.

So the actual party to blame here is Microsoft - because they allowed Crowdstrike to deliver a kernel module co-signed by an MS-approved certificate, that was broken. I.e. they signed off on it, without actually doing any quality checks.

Now- you can debate over how practical it is to do this kind of sign-off en-masse, and in-depth.
But what you can't debate over, is the case of the Crowdstrike problem in particular.
As it surfaced on every system that had that bad update installed - 100% reproducible. And the only thing Microsoft would've had to have done, would've been to have actually install the thing and watch it fail immediately. The very barest of bare minimum effort.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

It goes toward distributing and maintaining the servers for distribution. As well as basic profit margin and upkeep for Steam as a whole.

Having the rate reduce with more sales encourages creating games that will sell. Doing the opposite encourages the opposite.

From what I know steam has impressively high net profit so not all money are spent on improved service.
Also steam gives away tons of free steam codes to devs or publishers. They also allow huge discount for steam code resellers. It looks like they are the good guys and I certainly benefit myself by buying super cheap steam codes below market value but it's price and market manipulation without making their own hands dirty. They only give away free codes after all. They lose money on those codes.
Sure and that's the point. That's how big corporations destroy competition. They sell product or service below cost so nobody can afford to compete until they fail.
Yes, Epic does give free games but it's always steam where you can find the cheapest codes for the new releases. Nobody can compete with that.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

It goes toward distributing and maintaining the servers for distribution. As well as basic profit margin and upkeep for Steam as a whole.

Having the rate reduce with more sales encourages creating games that will sell. Doing the opposite encourages the opposite.

From what I know steam has impressively high net profit so not all money are spent on improved service.
Also steam gives away tons of free steam codes to devs or publishers. They also allow huge discount for steam code resellers. It looks like they are the good guys and I certainly benefit myself by buying super cheap steam codes below market value but it's price and market manipulation without making their own hands dirty. They only give away free codes after all. They lose money on those codes.
Sure and that's the point. That's how big corporations destroy competition. They sell product or service below cost so nobody can afford to compete until they fail.
Yes, Epic does give free games but it's always steam where you can find the cheapest codes for the new releases. Nobody can compete with that.

Except if other places gave developers keys to sell, they could.

It isn't market manipulation at all.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Except if other places gave developers keys to sell, they could.

It isn't market manipulation at all.

I'm not a layer but it does look like price manipulation if the steam codes can be sold below market value and cheaper than any other store could ever do it.

But it's not a complain. I do buy cheap codes myself.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Except if other places gave developers keys to sell, they could.

It isn't market manipulation at all.

I'm not a layer but it does look like price manipulation if the steam codes can be sold below market value and cheaper than any other store could ever do it.

But it's not a complain. I do buy cheap codes myself.

Except Steam isn't in charge of the price of those codes. They give them to the developer, the developer then sells them to redistribution sites like Fanatical or Humble.

In fact, Steam will only give out so many keys at a time to prevent developers from just giving away codes to boost their game.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

I'm not a layer but it does look like price manipulation if the steam codes can be sold below market value and cheaper than any other store could ever do it.

But it's not a complain. I do buy cheap codes myself.

Except Steam isn't in charge of the price of those codes. They give them to the developer, the developer then sells them to redistribution sites like Fanatical or Humble.

In fact, Steam will only give out so many keys at a time to prevent developers from just giving away codes to boost their game.

I know and it's brilliant. I don't think they can be sued. They could if they would do it themselves but they keep their hands clean. Not their fault if devs sell their free codes. Steam loses money so how can they be the bad guys. Not their fault it destroys competition.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Except Steam isn't in charge of the price of those codes. They give them to the developer, the developer then sells them to redistribution sites like Fanatical or Humble.

In fact, Steam will only give out so many keys at a time to prevent developers from just giving away codes to boost their game.

I know and it's brilliant. I don't think they can be sued. They could if they would do it themselves but they keep their hands clean. Not their fault if devs sell their free codes. Steam loses money so how can they be the bad guys. Not their fault it destroys competition.

Except all other stores would need to do is the exact same thing.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Except all other stores would need to do is the exact same thing.

I think so. I don’t see how anybody can compete with steam without giving out free codes and making it possible to resell below market value at a loss for them.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Except all other stores would need to do is the exact same thing.

I think so. I don’t see how anybody can compete with steam without giving out free codes and making it possible to resell below market value at a loss for them.

Provide an equivalent service.

You really just believe whatever the lawyers are saying. Even the 'evidence' they showed is false. But conveniently didn't respond to my reply about them.

Weird.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

I think so. I don’t see how anybody can compete with steam without giving out free codes and making it possible to resell below market value at a loss for them.

Provide an equivalent service.

You really just believe whatever the lawyers are saying. Even the 'evidence' they showed is false. But conveniently didn't respond to my reply about them.

Weird.

There is no equivalent service to steam and you can’t find brand new games cheaper anywhere else than on steam keys stores.

I don’t need a layer to see that.

[Malfunctioning Robot]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Provide an equivalent service.

You really just believe whatever the lawyers are saying. Even the 'evidence' they showed is false. But conveniently didn't respond to my reply about them.

Weird.

There is no equivalent service to steam and you can’t find brand new games cheaper anywhere else than on steam keys stores.

I don’t need a layer to see that.

Then you'd be wrong.

You want an example? "My Island" has a different regular price on Epic than it does on Steam. There is NO parity requirement for games sold when it isn't a steam key. It's 17cad on steam, and 11cad on epic.Kerbal space program sold for less on their own website than they sold it for on steam during early access, also not a steam key, and that was over a decade ago. There has never been a parity requirement.

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Malfunctioning Robot:

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

There is no equivalent service to steam and you can’t find brand new games cheaper anywhere else than on steam keys stores.

I don’t need a layer to see that.

Then you'd be wrong.

You want an example? "My Island" has a different regular price on Epic than it does on Steam. There is NO parity requirement for games sold when it isn't a steam key. It's 17cad on steam, and 11cad on epic.Kerbal space program sold for less on their own website than they sold it for on steam during early access, also not a steam key, and that was over a decade ago. There has never been a parity requirement.

Maybe there isn’t. It’s not my lawsuit.
I only discuss and don’t try to convince anybody. I said already that the accusations sound bogus as it’s too insane and potentially too illegal and steam would be destroyed by lawsuits long time ago.

But what is interesting that there is a rule about steam keys parity but the difference in prices between steam key resellers are actually way bigger than between steam and other launchers.


Out of interest: what is that game and in what region that is so much cheaper on Epic. Is it a base price or discounted price?

I’ve seen one or two such examples already suggesting that there is no price parity.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Messaggio originale di Malfunctioning Robot:

Then you'd be wrong.

You want an example? "My Island" has a different regular price on Epic than it does on Steam. There is NO parity requirement for games sold when it isn't a steam key. It's 17cad on steam, and 11cad on epic.Kerbal space program sold for less on their own website than they sold it for on steam during early access, also not a steam key, and that was over a decade ago. There has never been a parity requirement.

Maybe there isn’t. It’s not my lawsuit.
I only discuss and don’t try to convince anybody. I said already that the accusations sound bogus as it’s too insane and potentially too illegal and steam would be destroyed by lawsuits long time ago.

But what is interesting that there is a rule about steam keys parity but the difference in prices between steam key resellers are actually way bigger than between steam and other launchers.


Out of interest: what is that game and in what region that is so much cheaper on Epic. Is it a base price or discounted price?

I’ve seen one or two such examples already suggesting that there is no price parity.

Borderlands 3 was on sale in EGS for 8$ while it was on Steam for 50$(or 60$).

[C1REX]

Messaggio originale di Boblin the Goblin:

Messaggio originale di C1REX:

Maybe there isn’t. It’s not my lawsuit.
I only discuss and don’t try to convince anybody. I said already that the accusations sound bogus as it’s too insane and potentially too illegal and steam would be destroyed by lawsuits long time ago.

But what is interesting that there is a rule about steam keys parity but the difference in prices between steam key resellers are actually way bigger than between steam and other launchers.


Out of interest: what is that game and in what region that is so much cheaper on Epic. Is it a base price or discounted price?

I’ve seen one or two such examples already suggesting that there is no price parity.

Borderlands 3 was on sale in EGS for 8$ while it was on Steam for 50$(or 60$).

I have no idea if price parity is or was ever true or not but it allegedly allowed having discounts in other places as long as a similar discount was later available on steam as well.
That’s why I ask about the base price only and not discounts as different stores do them at different times anyway.