Do I own my games or not?

[Zoltan]

I was around back when STEAM started. It took time to trust them that they will be around long enough from buying the games that were on disk to buying them on steam and still owning them.

Now I am being told I don't own my games that games are only a service.

What the Hell !

We need to know if steam is sticking to the original plan that we own our games.

[Jon the VGNerd]

Publicado originalmente por Ganger:

Publicado originalmente por Jon the VGNerd:

Good thing I have physical games with me so no crazed gaming publishers would ever try and raid my house to confiscate the games I legitimately bought. If they ever tried that, there's gonna be millions of dollars in lawsuits that even they will end up losing because they committed a criminal act.

Not unless they get a court order from a judge.... just throwing this in for no reason at all.

Anyway, with physical gaming back in the day, they was nothing a publisher could do to you. You could mod the game, you could lead the game, you could sell the game and the publisher couldn't do a thing. With digital, it's a different ball game all together, we have given up our rights for convenience and we have allowed publishers to do what their wish.

Exactly this. With digital, at least on PC, folks can sail the high seas and teach publishers a lesson. But consoles are another story and work much more different than on PC.

[Zoltan]

Here is a link to Unreal Engine

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/license

Basically unless you sell more than a million you don't owe them anything.

[Komarimaru]

Publicado originalmente por Zoltan:

Here is a link to Unreal Engine

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/license

Basically unless you sell more than a million you don't owe them anything.

I told you this.

Publicado originalmente por Komarimaru:

Back to Unreal Engine. You own the IP for anything you yourself create, you own any assets you make in textures, modeling etc. You do not own anything related to the engine, you're licensing it based in said agreement.

You're free to use it as much as you want, costs nothing to buy even. But the moment you intend distribute with the intent of making revenue, once hit a threshold you owe Epic money. Failing to pay said money, would of course lead to legal actions, since their engine and not yours, you do not own it.

You didn't create a save file, the game is creating it for convenience to resume later.

[entropyjones]

You know what guys? None of this conversation really makes any sense any more.

All we have to do is buy our games on GOG and they guarentee that we own them. Offline installers as far as the eye can see baby.

Done with steam and I'm even going to rebuy some games on gog so I can get my subscriptions going back through them.

No need to fight or fuss. The need is met.

[Thermal Lance]

Publicado originalmente por entropyjones:

You know what guys? None of this conversation really makes any sense any more.

All we have to do is buy our games on GOG and they guarentee that we own them. Offline installers as far as the eye can see baby.

Done with steam and I'm even going to rebuy some games on gog so I can get my subscriptions going back through them.

No need to fight or fuss. The need is met.

Fair enough. But, unfortunately, GOG's catalog leaves a lot to be desired.

[Blitz4]

Publicado originalmente por Kindred Spirit:

I know I'm older than some of you, but this was a similar argument being held in the late 80s into the 90s where people were 'ripping' CDS and the RIAA said 'That we purchase the hardware (the record, CD, cassette tape, ect) but not the works pertained on it

Neat.

Yea they probably shouldn't have said that. Grasping at straws to keep their money. It didn't work out. It only showed the world that most artists get ripped off by labels and the RIAA. Any effort by musicians like Metallica or the RIAA or labels to stop something like Napster only brought more attention to people that didn't know it existed.

YouTube just did that recently as well, by making a big push on adblockers. Now people can't imagine using the internet without it.

It's nice when being greedy backfires.

Publicado originalmente por RiO:

Publicado originalmente por xBCxRangers:

So you buy a used one. As long as you have your HD, you have your games. My systems all have external HDs i bought separately.

If the CMOS battery in a PS3, PS4 or PS5 goes dead, the internal DRM clock resets to -1 and all digital licenses will fail DRM checks until the DRM clock has resynced. Said resync happens via receiving a new seed value via encrypted network response from a logged in session on PSN.

In other words: as soon as Sony pulls support to sign in to PSN on those consoles, then you can replace their dead CMOS batteries with as much still living samples as you want - it will get you nothing.

the ps4/ps5, not that big of a deal
but it affecting the ps3 is huge as no ps3 games are backwards compatible with the ps4/ps5

it's a decision that while gave them money then. it's may backfire again as that introduces people to the world of emulators.

EDIT:
Q: can you play PSN digital games installed to the hard drive in a ps3, with a PC emulator?

[entropyjones]

Publicado originalmente por Thermal Lance:

Publicado originalmente por entropyjones:

You know what guys? None of this conversation really makes any sense any more.

All we have to do is buy our games on GOG and they guarentee that we own them. Offline installers as far as the eye can see baby.

Done with steam and I'm even going to rebuy some games on gog so I can get my subscriptions going back through them.

No need to fight or fuss. The need is met.

Fair enough. But, unfortunately, GOG's catalog leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems ok to me. I am willing to make some sacrifices here. Most of the triple A games are a let down anyway. I can see why they would try to starve out a company like GOG.

They do have some big names like CDProject and Paradox though. I noticed they didn't have Bethesda but that's ok, they haven't made anything I wanted to buy in years.

What else isn't available there?

[Thermal Lance]

Publicado originalmente por entropyjones:

Publicado originalmente por Thermal Lance:

Fair enough. But, unfortunately, GOG's catalog leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems ok to me. I am willing to make some sacrifices here. Most of the triple A games are a let down anyway. I can see why they would try to starve out a company like GOG.

They do have some big names like CDProject and Paradox though. I noticed they didn't have Bethesda but that's ok, they haven't made anything I wanted to buy in years.

What else isn't available there?

Plenty isn't available there. But, if the catalog suits you fine. Who am I to tell you if it's bad enough.

Looks, I'm going to assume you are old enough to make that choice on your own. That's all fine by me but I personally couldnt do GOG alone. (I own about 90 titles on GOG.)

[Blitz4]

Publicado originalmente por HavoK:

has OP won his court hearing yet? the anticipation is killing me, i know he wont but damn need some answers

who said there's a court hearing?

the OP really should link to the best next step available to gamers, either by flagging it as an answer or editing the OP. this is big thread.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iH7k0IZ5PYE

[xBCxRangers]

Publicado originalmente por Blitz4:

Publicado originalmente por Kindred Spirit:

I know I'm older than some of you, but this was a similar argument being held in the late 80s into the 90s where people were 'ripping' CDS and the RIAA said 'That we purchase the hardware (the record, CD, cassette tape, ect) but not the works pertained on it

Neat.

Yea they probably shouldn't have said that. Grasping at straws to keep their money. It didn't work out. It only showed the world that most artists get ripped off by labels and the RIAA. Any effort by musicians like Metallica or the RIAA or labels to stop something like Napster only brought more attention to people that didn't know it existed.

YouTube just did that recently as well, by making a big push on adblockers. Now people can't imagine using the internet without it.

It's nice when being greedy backfires.

Publicado originalmente por RiO:

If the CMOS battery in a PS3, PS4 or PS5 goes dead, the internal DRM clock resets to -1 and all digital licenses will fail DRM checks until the DRM clock has resynced. Said resync happens via receiving a new seed value via encrypted network response from a logged in session on PSN.

In other words: as soon as Sony pulls support to sign in to PSN on those consoles, then you can replace their dead CMOS batteries with as much still living samples as you want - it will get you nothing.

the ps4/ps5, not that big of a deal
but it affecting the ps3 is huge as no ps3 games are backwards compatible with the ps4/ps5

it's a decision that while gave them money then. it's may backfire again as that introduces people to the world of emulators.

EDIT:
Q: can you play PSN digital games installed to the hard drive in a ps3, with a PC emulator?

To your last point, i tried PCXS (i think it's called) on this old clunker, with some PS2 cds, and it was a slide show, being my computer is too old. Never tried thru a HD with digital games.

Though that's a great invention, though most are getting their games thru pirating sites to play on it, so it seems.

However going to your point about Napster, i think that and the internet killed the music industry. I remember my brother telling me about that at the time, and predicted it would kill it, and i think it did.

Once people were able to get music, even free, record companies went under left and right, and i saw the quality of the music deterioriate drastically, but that's just an aside and my own opinion.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Publicado originalmente por Blitz4:

Publicado originalmente por Kindred Spirit:

I know I'm older than some of you, but this was a similar argument being held in the late 80s into the 90s where people were 'ripping' CDS and the RIAA said 'That we purchase the hardware (the record, CD, cassette tape, ect) but not the works pertained on it

Neat.

Yea they probably shouldn't have said that. Grasping at straws to keep their money. It didn't work out. It only showed the world that most artists get ripped off by labels and the RIAA. Any effort by musicians like Metallica or the RIAA or labels to stop something like Napster only brought more attention to people that didn't know it existed.

YouTube just did that recently as well, by making a big push on adblockers. Now people can't imagine using the internet without it.

It's nice when being greedy backfires.

Publicado originalmente por RiO:

If the CMOS battery in a PS3, PS4 or PS5 goes dead, the internal DRM clock resets to -1 and all digital licenses will fail DRM checks until the DRM clock has resynced. Said resync happens via receiving a new seed value via encrypted network response from a logged in session on PSN.

In other words: as soon as Sony pulls support to sign in to PSN on those consoles, then you can replace their dead CMOS batteries with as much still living samples as you want - it will get you nothing.

the ps4/ps5, not that big of a deal
but it affecting the ps3 is huge as no ps3 games are backwards compatible with the ps4/ps5

it's a decision that while gave them money then. it's may backfire again as that introduces people to the world of emulators.

EDIT:
Q: can you play PSN digital games installed to the hard drive in a ps3, with a PC emulator?

PS3 HDDs are encrypted to the console.

[Blitz4]

Publicado originalmente por AustrAlien2010:

Ah!!
Why do people all talk so much? You just need to keep it simple.

If you have to connect to the internet to install or play your game, or when it needs to “call home” on occasion, then you do not own it. Because you need to connect to a server, and you do not own the server.
Its as simple as that.

it's almost like there's different beliefs and cultures built around those beliefs and weird laws or lack of laws throughout the world and it's not clear what is or isn't allowed, because many countries just don't know this is an issue. it's all the more reason that if you care about preservation, to follow the best steps that those before you documented as the best course of action.

from what i'm learning, in brazil, what you just said wouldn't fly there.
and most countries haven't made a decision on how to handle it.
it's a newer issue and when I say that I account for how slow goverments move. politicians often aren't gamers.

and another reason such a big thread, it's because this conversation will become larger as more people become aware of the issues. and you can even bring in related factors like how so many other distributors are pulling games, I believe it's every single one except steam, epic and gog. those are distributors that only handle PC games, so there's no where for console or mobile owners to buy games if they want to preserve them.

then you have the attempt to understanding the issue through looking at similar entertainment mediums like DVD's, CD's, Music distribution, etc. these mediums have been around for longer and more politicians have made decisions surrounding them.

next you have the issue of releasing unfinished games, which is defined as not fulfilling the promises of the game prior to release. how this can destroy the multiplayer experience of a game as most sales happen in the first month of a game's release. so by the time the game is patched to include what was promised and the bugs are fixed, the playerbase is tiny. Then that game is taken offline to be replaced with its sequel.

That's such a common experience everybody accepts it, complains, but accepts it. That taking the game offline part. Yea that part is also related to taking away your games. So the push to save gaming is to require all games release a way for players to play the game offline or on private servers, requiring a connection to install OR play the game is preventing the games preservation. yes the publisher has to make money, but at some point they have to respect the product they're selling.

Publicado originalmente por AustrAlien2010:

PS3 HDDs are encrypted to the console.

Thanks.

I know it's against EULA to use an emulator for PS3 games. It's also against my better judgement to trust Sony or anybody that isn't Valve, Epic or GoG with handling the distribution of my games. Sony has already removed games I owned from the PSN store from being downloaded, I think all of the PS1/PS2/PS3 games tbh, meaning if they're not pre-installed I can't use them.

The fact a distributor doesn't trust the market to come out with new and innovative products so much that they feel it's required to lock down the ability to play your games is pathetic.

[veracsthane]

Publicado originalmente por entropyjones:

You know what guys? None of this conversation really makes any sense any more.

All we have to do is buy our games on GOG and they guarentee that we own them. Offline installers as far as the eye can see baby.

Done with steam and I'm even going to rebuy some games on gog so I can get my subscriptions going back through them.

No need to fight or fuss. The need is met.

it does make sense but its like all issues. a handful of people know what they are talking about a handful of people are bad actors who either are that stupid or work for the companies in question doing the abuse or most people simply dont care and dont understand why its a problem.

ill second avoiding steam and using gog. steam already has the infestation the other companies who went south fast have most of why they back off atm is to avoid the obviously negetive steero types that go with it. once gab is gone and they go public because the new ceo will take the public its just ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Crix]

You will own nothing and be happy. That is the way the cookie will crumble IRL. It's just how things will go. I think a huge contributing factor to this is because we live a world that is full of dishonest people and some try to justify their reasons for stealing.

[Ben Lubar]

Publicado originalmente por entropyjones:

You know what guys? None of this conversation really makes any sense any more.

All we have to do is buy our games on GOG and they guarentee that we own them. Offline installers as far as the eye can see baby.

Done with steam and I'm even going to rebuy some games on gog so I can get my subscriptions going back through them.

No need to fight or fuss. The need is met.

As far as I know, buying a game on GOG does not give you a voucher to violate international copyright law. You're still buying the same kind of license to use a piece of entertainment that has existed since they invented record players.