Do I own my games or not?

[Zoltan]

I was around back when STEAM started. It took time to trust them that they will be around long enough from buying the games that were on disk to buying them on steam and still owning them.

Now I am being told I don't own my games that games are only a service.

What the Hell !

We need to know if steam is sticking to the original plan that we own our games.

[XartaX]

引用自 C²C^Guyver |NZB|：

Why are you even arguing about physical media? Anyway, it's dead.

Because if you argue that we should adjust the price of a game back in time for inflation to see what it would cost today, you'd also have to take away all the components of the cost that went into producing the physical copies. Because back then they were sold as physical copies.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 XartaX：

引用自 C²C^Guyver |NZB|：

Why are you even arguing about physical media? Anyway, it's dead.

Because if you argue that we should adjust the price of a game back in time for inflation to see what it would cost today, you'd also have to take away all the components of the cost that went into producing the physical copies. Because back then they were sold as physical copies.

Irrelevant. Since games just now started to begin matching prices in the 80's. Games haven't gone up with inflation like everything else has.

[XartaX]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 C²C^Guyver |NZB|：

Why are you even arguing about physical media? Anyway, it's dead.

What's scary is they are implying it was 10% of the cost of the game. That would mean $4-$6 to create each. Last I checked, CD's back in the late 90's to early 2000's cost $0.12 to cut and make, and another $0.20 for jewel case and insert...

Box (this would be both a bigger box, and a smaller plastic case for the disc itself)
Disc/cartridge (cartridge way more expensive)
Manuals/inserts/etc.
Cover art
Shrink wrapping
Actually assembling all the components into a finished product (getting everything into the box and sealed)
Warehouse storage pre distribution
Shipping to distributor
And there's probably more I just didn't think of

[XartaX]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 XartaX：

Because if you argue that we should adjust the price of a game back in time for inflation to see what it would cost today, you'd also have to take away all the components of the cost that went into producing the physical copies. Because back then they were sold as physical copies.

Irrelevant. Since games just now started to begin matching prices in the 80's. Games haven't gone up with inflation like everything else has.

Then inflation is irrelevant too. Can't have one without the other.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 XartaX：

引用自 Komarimaru：

What's scary is they are implying it was 10% of the cost of the game. That would mean $4-$6 to create each. Last I checked, CD's back in the late 90's to early 2000's cost $0.12 to cut and make, and another $0.20 for jewel case and insert...

Box (this would be both a bigger box, and a smaller plastic case for the disc itself)
Disc/cartridge (cartridge way more expensive)
Manuals/inserts/etc.
Cover art
Shrink wrapping
Actually assembling all the components into a finished product (getting everything into the box and sealed)
Warehouse storage pre distribution
Shipping to distributor
And there's probably more I just didn't think of

Ya, and it is not as much as you're thinking.

Cartridges are different, and always have been the most expensive due to internals. Why Nintendo finally stepped away from them.

But the box etc? pennies, not dollars. Paper is cheap, as is the shrink wrap, and everything else you listed.

[XartaX]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 XartaX：

Box (this would be both a bigger box, and a smaller plastic case for the disc itself)
Disc/cartridge (cartridge way more expensive)
Manuals/inserts/etc.
Cover art
Shrink wrapping
Actually assembling all the components into a finished product (getting everything into the box and sealed)
Warehouse storage pre distribution
Shipping to distributor
And there's probably more I just didn't think of

Ya, and it is not as much as you're thinking.

Cartridges are different, and always have been the most expensive due to internals. Why Nintendo finally stepped away from them.

But the box etc? pennies, not dollars. Paper is cheap, as is the shrink wrap, and everything else you listed.

It adds up lol.

A CD/DVD would be like a dollar. You're not getting it at manufacturing prices. It's also huuugely dependent on exactly when. For example in the early 90's you'd probably look at 10-20 dollars lol. But lets say 1998 and into the 2000's for something like Warcraft 2 or 3 you're looking at a dollar. Lets say a dollar.

Plastic case would be like 0.5-1 bucks Let's lowball at half a buck.

Packaging (box) like 1-5 bucks depending on quality and edition and so on. Let's just say 1 dollar.

Instruction manual is probably going to be around 0.5-1.5 dollars. We're talking back when they actually had sizeable manuals and not just one sheet of paper (Warcraft 3 is a good example). Lets lowball at 0.5 dollars.

Lets say half a dollar for the cover art and random inserts/fliers and so on, the rest of the stuff in it.

Lets say another half a dollar for assembly and shrink wrapping.

Lets say a dollar per unit to store it at a warehouse and ship it to retailer later, which is extremely generous.

These add up to 1+0.5+1+0.5+0.5+0.5+1=5. And that's low balling.

Something like the Warcraft 3 box was probably more expensive: https://img.bidorbuy.co.za/image/upload/user_images/229/1932229/1932229_140918160738_SAM_1638.JPG

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

引用自 XartaX：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Ya, and it is not as much as you're thinking.

Cartridges are different, and always have been the most expensive due to internals. Why Nintendo finally stepped away from them.

But the box etc? pennies, not dollars. Paper is cheap, as is the shrink wrap, and everything else you listed.

It adds up lol.

A CD/DVD would be like a dollar. You're not getting it at manufacturing prices. It's also huuugely dependent on exactly when. For example in the early 90's you'd probably look at 10-20 dollars lol. But lets say 1998 and into the 2000's for something like Warcraft 2 or 3 you're looking at a dollar. Lets say a dollar.

Plastic case would be like 0.5-1 bucks Let's lowball at half a buck.

Packaging (box) like 1-5 bucks depending on quality and edition and so on. Let's just say 1 dollar.

Instruction manual is probably going to be around 0.5-1.5 dollars. We're talking back when they actually had sizeable manuals and not just one sheet of paper (Warcraft 3 is a good example). Lets lowball at 0.5 dollars.

Lets say half a dollar for the cover art and random inserts/fliers and so on, the rest of the stuff in it.

Lets say another half a dollar for assembly and shrink wrapping.

Lets say a dollar per unit to store it at a warehouse and ship it to retailer later, which is extremely generous.

These add up to 1+0.5+1+0.5+0.5+0.5+1=5. And that's low balling.

Something like the Warcraft 3 box was probably more expensive: https://img.bidorbuy.co.za/image/upload/user_images/229/1932229/1932229_140918160738_SAM_1638.JPG

I leave this here for you. This is just an example, there more compaines that can do it for less than them, but reason I link this one is that they list the pricing without needing to contact them for bulk deal discount pricing.
https://www.discmakers.com/products/bulk.asp

This includes EVERYTHING besides dealing with retails that something have to deal with.

And your idea of what package are, that fancy stuff, should see the Avg consoles packaging which is no where this large amount of packaging, and when they do that large amount they actually CHARGE you way more calling it LIMITED EDITION, or whatever.

[Ben Lubar]

In the production of any product, labor is far and away the most expensive part.

Prices on Steam include Valve's 30%, which goes to (among other things) the servers you are able to download the game from an unbounded number of times, the infrastructure for the game's achievements, inventory, modding, stats, leaderboards, forums, remote play, financial transaction handling, screenshot hosting, store reviews page, etc, and technical support for developers. Paid games subsidize free games. Free games give people who might not want to spend any money right away a reason to become familiar with the platform.

The other 70% goes to the developer, who has to handle marketing, future development, support, moderation, and recouping the costs of the original development, among many other things.

Prices aren't determined randomly. Everything that goes into making, distributing, maintaining, and supporting a game is accounted for. Sales, the intensity of the discount, and the frequency with which a game goes on sale are part of a game's pricing. If a court decision means that games will sell X times fewer copies and not change the costs that caused those prices to be set the way they are, the prices are going to go up.

In the meantime, no, Valve is not obligated to allow you to set up a competitor to Steam through Steam.

[XartaX]

引用自 Dr.Shadowds 🐉：

引用自 XartaX：

It adds up lol.

A CD/DVD would be like a dollar. You're not getting it at manufacturing prices. It's also huuugely dependent on exactly when. For example in the early 90's you'd probably look at 10-20 dollars lol. But lets say 1998 and into the 2000's for something like Warcraft 2 or 3 you're looking at a dollar. Lets say a dollar.

Plastic case would be like 0.5-1 bucks Let's lowball at half a buck.

Packaging (box) like 1-5 bucks depending on quality and edition and so on. Let's just say 1 dollar.

Instruction manual is probably going to be around 0.5-1.5 dollars. We're talking back when they actually had sizeable manuals and not just one sheet of paper (Warcraft 3 is a good example). Lets lowball at 0.5 dollars.

Lets say half a dollar for the cover art and random inserts/fliers and so on, the rest of the stuff in it.

Lets say another half a dollar for assembly and shrink wrapping.

Lets say a dollar per unit to store it at a warehouse and ship it to retailer later, which is extremely generous.

These add up to 1+0.5+1+0.5+0.5+0.5+1=5. And that's low balling.

Something like the Warcraft 3 box was probably more expensive: https://img.bidorbuy.co.za/image/upload/user_images/229/1932229/1932229_140918160738_SAM_1638.JPG

I leave this here for you. This is just an example, there more compaines that can do it for less than them, but reason I link this one is that they list the pricing without needing to contact them for bulk deal discount pricing.
https://www.discmakers.com/products/bulk.asp

This includes EVERYTHING besides dealing with retails that something have to deal with.

And your idea of what package are, that fancy stuff, should see the Avg consoles packaging which is no where this large amount of packaging, and when they do that large amount they actually CHARGE you way more calling it LIMITED EDITION, or whatever.

You do realize that discs today are a lot cheaper than discs back when games were mainly sold through physical copies, right? Especially if we go back to the 90's. If we're looking at these prices to calculate it into the cost of the game at the time (to find the remaining cost that is digital only which you can then adjust for inflation), we have to look at the cost of said physical components at the time, not today.

And I literally have a ton of game boxes in random boxes around the house. Physical copies of games used to have things in them. It slowly shrinkflated away until you only had a plastic case with maybe a single sheet of paper in it and a disc, but that happened over time. And then in the end becoming fully digital (I think if you buy a "physical copy" these days it just has a cd key in it).

[XartaX]

引用自 Ben Lubar：

In the production of any product, labor is far and away the most expensive part.

Prices on Steam include Valve's 30%, which goes to (among other things) the servers you are able to download the game from an unbounded number of times, the infrastructure for the game's achievements, inventory, modding, stats, leaderboards, forums, remote play, financial transaction handling, screenshot hosting, store reviews page, etc, and technical support for developers. Paid games subsidize free games. Free games give people who might not want to spend any money right away a reason to become familiar with the platform.

The other 70% goes to the developer, who has to handle marketing, future development, support, moderation, and recouping the costs of the original development, among many other things.

Prices aren't determined randomly. Everything that goes into making, distributing, maintaining, and supporting a game is accounted for. Sales, the intensity of the discount, and the frequency with which a game goes on sale are part of a game's pricing. If a court decision means that games will sell X times fewer copies and not change the costs that caused those prices to be set the way they are, the prices are going to go up.

In the meantime, no, Valve is not obligated to allow you to set up a competitor to Steam through Steam.

Giving steam a cut is equivalent to running a marketing campaign (and in the case of steam, global and wide reaching, not just a local campaign) back in the good old days. That's a totally separate cost. You can always do like Dwarf Fortress and just provide access to the game directly on your own site or whatever.

Edit: Or heck, Epic will pay YOU to put your game there lol,

[SKARDAVNELNATE]

引用自 C²C^Guyver |NZB|：

Yeah you can. If you still own it. You can still play it on Steam if you own it on Steam.

My profile is proof of this.

Are you just responding to the thumb nail? The video address a wider ranging issue.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

引用自 XartaX：

引用自 Dr.Shadowds 🐉：

I leave this here for you. This is just an example, there more compaines that can do it for less than them, but reason I link this one is that they list the pricing without needing to contact them for bulk deal discount pricing.
https://www.discmakers.com/products/bulk.asp

This includes EVERYTHING besides dealing with retails that something have to deal with.

And your idea of what package are, that fancy stuff, should see the Avg consoles packaging which is no where this large amount of packaging, and when they do that large amount they actually CHARGE you way more calling it LIMITED EDITION, or whatever.

You do realize that discs today are a lot cheaper than discs back when games were mainly sold through physical copies, right? Especially if we go back to the 90's. If we're looking at these prices to calculate it into the cost of the game at the time (to find the remaining cost that is digital only which you can then adjust for inflation), we have to look at the cost of said physical components at the time, not today.

And I literally have a ton of game boxes in random boxes around the house. Physical copies of games used to have things in them. It slowly shrinkflated away until you only had a plastic case with maybe a single sheet of paper in it and a disc, but that happened over time. And then in the end becoming fully digital (I think if you buy a "physical copy" these days it just has a cd key in it).

I just leave this 1995 post here.....
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/05/arts/pennies-that-add-up-to-16.98-why-cd-s-cost-so-much.html

[Komarimaru]

引用自 Dr.Shadowds 🐉：

引用自 XartaX：

You do realize that discs today are a lot cheaper than discs back when games were mainly sold through physical copies, right? Especially if we go back to the 90's. If we're looking at these prices to calculate it into the cost of the game at the time (to find the remaining cost that is digital only which you can then adjust for inflation), we have to look at the cost of said physical components at the time, not today.

And I literally have a ton of game boxes in random boxes around the house. Physical copies of games used to have things in them. It slowly shrinkflated away until you only had a plastic case with maybe a single sheet of paper in it and a disc, but that happened over time. And then in the end becoming fully digital (I think if you buy a "physical copy" these days it just has a cd key in it).

I just leave this 1995 post here.....
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/05/arts/pennies-that-add-up-to-16.98-why-cd-s-cost-so-much.html

Oh look, an article proving my claim of pennies in the later 90's and early 2000's as true, who woulda thunk

[Ben Lubar]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 Dr.Shadowds 🐉：

I just leave this 1995 post here.....
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/05/arts/pennies-that-add-up-to-16.98-why-cd-s-cost-so-much.html

Oh look, an article proving my claim of pennies in the later 90's and early 2000's as true, who woulda thunk

The article talks about how the CD itself costs pennies to make, but three different companies have patents on various parts of the CD making process, raising the price to a whopping 75 cents, and then of course there are all the costs not directly related to manufacture.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 Ben Lubar：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Oh look, an article proving my claim of pennies in the later 90's and early 2000's as true, who woulda thunk

The article talks about how the CD itself costs pennies to make, but three different companies have patents on various parts of the CD making process, raising the price to a whopping 75 cents, and then of course there are all the costs not directly related to manufacture.

Ya, but if use a trick to unlock the articles paywall, showed that changed later.