Do I own my games or not?

[Zoltan]

I was around back when STEAM started. It took time to trust them that they will be around long enough from buying the games that were on disk to buying them on steam and still owning them.

Now I am being told I don't own my games that games are only a service.

What the Hell !

We need to know if steam is sticking to the original plan that we own our games.

[xBCxRangers]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

B님이 먼저 게시:

Also I'm 100% for the government to step in and regulate that purchased online media must always remain usable and maintained.

That's a nice wish, but nothing more than a wish.

In this business, there is never certainty about anything. Anything and everything can change. Especially now with AI and these gaming companies in the crossairs of our various governments.

[Boblin the Goblin]

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

That's a nice wish, but nothing more than a wish.

In this business, there is never certainty about anything. Anything and everything can change. Especially now with AI and these gaming companies in the crossairs of our various governments.

AI has nothing to do with this. No governmental body has Steam or game companies "in the cross hairs".

[Chika Ogiue]

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

In this business, there is never certainty about anything. Anything and everything can change. Especially now with AI and these gaming companies in the crossairs of our various governments.

AI has nothing to do with customer ownership/licensing. The issues around AI extend only to whether intellectual property rights can be registered, and to how models are trained on existing works (and the intellectual ownership of those works). You also only need to look at books and how those can go out of print, and how films, television shows, etc., can also do the same, to know that governments are not suddenly going to demand that companies change how they handle *their* intellectual property.

[Piston Smashed™]

SlowMango님이 먼저 게시:

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

In this business, there is never certainty about anything. Anything and everything can change. Especially now with AI and these gaming companies in the crossairs of our various governments.

AI has nothing to do with this. No governmental body has Steam or game companies "in the cross hairs".

The FBI is working in tandem with the North Pole and anyone who says a naughty word in a gaming forum will be put on a list. The government will then use this list to decide who is naughty or nice and let Santa know who to give a piece of coal to this year.

[Brian9824]

Chika Ogiue님이 먼저 게시:

Caravanseray님이 먼저 게시:

That's not how it works with physical media though. When you mention books, music - if you own the physical media, you own physical media regardless of the license. They cannot physically remove it.

(physical) Books and music don't come with a license btw.,

Digital distribution however, is predatory

It's exactly how it has always worked with physical media. You didn't read any of the small print. That small print is included in some books, too, within the front matter. Although most books published in the last few decades don't include more than a stipulation to not change the cover, as they know it's impossible for them to actually enforce the terms.

But regardless, books, films, games, music, it doesn't matter which you purchase physically, you own exactly the same: the physical materials that the experience is provided on. You don't own the experience.

So (for example), with a music CD, you specifically own the plastic case, the paper any cover and booklet is printed on, the plastic the CD is composed of, the binding for any booklet if such binding exits. You don't own the cover art, the lyrics printed in the booklet, or the songs on the CD.

It's amazing how so many people still don't understand this. And no, digital distribution is not predatory, it's simply the way publishers of compatible experiences found to finally enforce their ownership rights.

Yep, your even limited in how you can use physical goods. Like you can't buy a movie and then show it at a business or a commercial setting. You can't buy a CD and then play it at events, etc.

Even physical goods have always had restrictions on how you can use them.

[TheLevelCap]

You have the license to play the game and to keep it on your profile when the devs decide to remove it from the platform. If you didn't own anything, they would be able to remove it from your library which they can't.

People will say whatever bs they want, most countries allow that.

For example: I'm playing fall guys rn on steam

[R-]

if we have live service it means you have a favorite game and in the next day its gone and you can do nothing about it

people bought overwatch 1 and they are not allowed to play the game they bought its gone
battleborn and evolve are gone and people bought it, nintendo shutting down many games on nintendo wii u

[xBCxRangers]

TheLevelCap님이 먼저 게시:

You have the license to play the game and to keep it on your profile when the devs decide to remove it from the platform. If you didn't own anything, they would be able to remove it from your library which they can't.

People will say whatever bs they want, most countries allow that.

For example: I'm playing fall guys rn on steam

Well, that's gonna end up happening as well, given this current course. They taking the game out.

We already have a situation, a developer got a license for a hit tv show video game, and years later lost the license, and then took every aspect of the show, and the rationale for the game, out the game.

We have situations GTA (and imo i think it happened on Mafia 2, but on that not concretely sure), where you buy the game, have music from artists, for they to update the game, and the music from that artist or song, gone.

And of course, more commonly, you buy a game as advertised, enjoy it, and loud mouths on the internet don't like it, and the developers change the game, or alter it, to one that you do not like, and how it was not advertised, and did not buy it for. And therefore, lost your game, at least as it was presented.

As well as games being sold soley for MP, for they to shut the servers, and you lose your game (Battlefield 43).

And that's where the rubber is going to meet the road, being if these activities are not countered, it will not be long before they will remove the games from your library, and that is when regulations are going to begin.

[Brian9824]

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

We already have a situation, a developer got a license for a hit tv show video game, and years later lost the license, and then took every aspect of the show, and the rationale for the game, out the game.

We have situations GTA (and imo i think it happened on Mafia 2, but on that not concretely sure), where you buy the game, have music from artists, for they to update the game, and the music from that artist or song, gone.

Yep, in both those situations the changes were incredibly small. One game a few songs got switched, in another game a song, a poster, and a background image got changed.

Those removals are required by law as they cannot keep providing files or data of content they no longer have the legal right to distribute.

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

And that's where the rubber is going to meet the road, being if these activities are not countered, it will not be long before they will remove the games from your library, and that is when regulations are going to begin.

The removal of that content is because by law the developers have to. Its licensed content and if their license isn't renewed they have to by law pull the content out of their games and stop offering it. Developers don't have a say in it as they purchased a license themselves to use the materials.

Games are not and have never been removed from peoples libraries for no reason, or because a license expires. That is scare mongering and not based the slightest in reality.

[xBCxRangers]

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

We already have a situation, a developer got a license for a hit tv show video game, and years later lost the license, and then took every aspect of the show, and the rationale for the game, out the game.

We have situations GTA (and imo i think it happened on Mafia 2, but on that not concretely sure), where you buy the game, have music from artists, for they to update the game, and the music from that artist or song, gone.

Yep, in both those situations the changes were incredibly small. One game a few songs got switched, in another game a song, a poster, and a background image got changed.

Those removals are required by law as they cannot keep providing files or data of content they no longer have the legal right to distribute.

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

And that's where the rubber is going to meet the road, being if these activities are not countered, it will not be long before they will remove the games from your library, and that is when regulations are going to begin.

The removal of that content is because by law the developers have to. Its licensed content and if their license isn't renewed they have to by law pull the content out of their games and stop offering it. Developers don't have a say in it as they purchased a license themselves to use the materials.

Games are not and have never been removed from peoples libraries for no reason, or because a license expires. That is scare mongering and not based the slightest in reality.

Okay, small changes, big changes, changes. That is not what people bought.

They bought the game, they bought. And it's getting very close, if not already, for false advertising charges.

And if it is not stopped, and will not be for awhile, there is gonna come a time, where these companies are gonna take it a mile (they always do) and are going to be seriously looked at, regulated, and curtailed. Its only fair for the consumer.

Before we know it, we're gonna buy a Star Wars games, and oops, lost the license, and now we have to make it Space Wars, and bye bye your money, and worse, the game just gets taken out your library.

[Chika Ogiue]

TheLevelCap님이 먼저 게시:

If you didn't own anything, they would be able to remove it from your library which they can't.

Yes, actually, they can. And in rare occasions, have done exactly that. Most publishers don't because it generates unnecessary flak and complaints. But they most certainly have the right to do it, and you accept they have that right when you agree to their terms to play.

R-님이 먼저 게시:

if we have live service it means you have a favorite game and in the next day its gone and you can do nothing about it

people bought overwatch 1 and they are not allowed to play the game they bought its gone
battleborn and evolve are gone and people bought it, nintendo shutting down many games on nintendo wii u

Again, rights owners have the right to end service at any time without warning, you agree to this when you purchase. No software is provided with the guarantee or promise that it will be available for perpetuity. Online-centric games such as MMOs being shuttered has happened since they first became a thing 30+ years ago.

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

They bought the game, they bought. And it's getting very close, if not already, for false advertising charges.

This would only be true if the games were sold under the promise that you'd have access to the specifically licensed third-party content for perpetuity. No game is sold with that promise. There is no false advertising going on in that respect.

[Boblin the Goblin]

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

brian9824님이 먼저 게시:

Yep, in both those situations the changes were incredibly small. One game a few songs got switched, in another game a song, a poster, and a background image got changed.

Those removals are required by law as they cannot keep providing files or data of content they no longer have the legal right to distribute.



The removal of that content is because by law the developers have to. Its licensed content and if their license isn't renewed they have to by law pull the content out of their games and stop offering it. Developers don't have a say in it as they purchased a license themselves to use the materials.

Games are not and have never been removed from peoples libraries for no reason, or because a license expires. That is scare mongering and not based the slightest in reality.

Okay, small changes, big changes, changes. That is not what people bought.

They bought the game, they bought. And it's getting very close, if not already, for false advertising charges.

And if it is not stopped, and will not be for awhile, there is gonna come a time, where these companies are gonna take it a mile (they always do) and are going to be seriously looked at, regulated, and curtailed. Its only fair for the consumer.

Before we know it, we're gonna buy a Star Wars games, and oops, lost the license, and now we have to make it Space Wars, and bye bye your money, and worse, the game just gets taken out your library.

It's literally the law that they have to change those parts of the game. They could get in huge trouble for not having proper permissions to use the likeness of people/brands.

That's common sense.

[xBCxRangers]

Chika Ogiue님이 먼저 게시:

TheLevelCap님이 먼저 게시:

If you didn't own anything, they would be able to remove it from your library which they can't.

Yes, actually, they can. And in rare occasions, have done exactly that. Most publishers don't because it generates unnecessary flak and complaints. But they most certainly have the right to do it, and you accept they have that right when you agree to their terms to play.

Well if they have the "right" to do that, they're going to inevitably be sued. It is not the problem with the consumer, a company screwed up their affairs.

And if folks are gonna say, "you signed the agreement", well there is no agreement for a license to steal. I can go to the roughest neighborhood in this country, even looking to be robbed, wave a 100 dollar bill, and get knocked in the head, and robbed.

That does not mean, the person who did it is not charged with robbery, no matter how reckless or stupid i was, like signing these "licenses to steal".

Inevitably, that is going to be changed. Which is why i told Tito, nothing in this business, is a certainty, and these matters, will change.

[Boblin the Goblin]

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

Chika Ogiue님이 먼저 게시:

Yes, actually, they can. And in rare occasions, have done exactly that. Most publishers don't because it generates unnecessary flak and complaints. But they most certainly have the right to do it, and you accept they have that right when you agree to their terms to play.

Well if they have the "right" to do that, they're going to inevitably be sued. It is not the problem with the consumer, a company screwed up their affairs.

And if folks are gonna say, "you signed the agreement", well there is no agreement for a license to steal. I can go to the roughest neighborhood in this country, even looking to be robbed, wave a 100 dollar bill, and get knocked in the head, and robbed.

That does not mean, the person who did it is not charged with robbery, no matter how reckless or stupid i was, like signing these "licenses to steal".

Inevitably, that is going to be changed. Which is why i told Tito, nothing in this business, is a certainty, and these matters, will change.

The law already agrees that they have the right to do that.

It's happened across multiple platforms with multiple types of media. People have had music, movies, and games removed from accounts after purchase because of rights issues.

There were no lawsuits because it is completely legal.

[Brian9824]

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

Okay, small changes, big changes, changes. That is not what people bought.

They bought the game, they bought. And it's getting very close, if not already, for false advertising charges.

Once again you are demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the laws. Changing a song in a game is not false advertising, especially if the dev's are required by law to change it. Games change with every update, and its not false advertising if you don't like one of the changes.

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

And if it is not stopped, and will not be for awhile, there is gonna come a time, where these companies are gonna take it a mile (they always do)

Been 20+ years and its never even remotely come close yet, no sign of it happening in the next 20+ years either, but if it ever does THEN there will be a legal case against the company that tries it.

xBCxRangers님이 먼저 게시:

Before we know it, we're gonna buy a Star Wars games, and oops, lost the license, and now we have to make it Space Wars, and bye bye your money, and worse, the game just gets taken out your library.

That already happened with Marvel Heroes, Disney chose not to redeem the license, the online game shut down. if it wasn't an online game you'd buy the rights outright to use it for that specific game or its produced by the studio that owns the game. For instance EA purchased the rights to develop star wars games. If their license is revoked it just means they can't make FUTURE games, and it doesn't stop their ability to continue selling games they already made.

You buy the rights outright when the content of the rights is integral to the game. Its far more expensive then a limited license and for something like a song in a game it would be a complete waste to do so as a song is easily swapped out if the rights are ever lost in the future.