This IS what you get when you go all digital

[Low Standards]

People, there have been so much bad news recently about Early Access and digital only that it is time to reconsider whether video games and this hobby is important to you?

You don't own anything, and that mean they can make you sign-up to PSN at will. They can remove the game from you account at will. They could make you decide to dance in the rain one day at will.

Guys, ownership is incredibly important in America and always has been. You don't license most of the stuff in your house, then why games?

Please everyone, reconsider your views on this. At least give it some thought.

[Maria]

Originally posted by Low Standards:

You don't license most of the stuff in your house, then why games?

Reminds me a lot of this brilliant post I read yesterday:

Originally posted by Cellsiuss:

You're also wrong in saying that the game is theirs. The copy of the game I bought is specifically mine. Just like the car I was buying. The car is mine and I can burn it, leave it to rust or repaint it.

[Zefar]

Originally posted by Low Standards:

People, there have been so much bad news recently about Early Access and digital only that it is time to reconsider whether video games and this hobby is important to you?

What Early Access games have been messing up lately? It's been pretty quiet on that front to be honest.
Well there was that 1 zombie game.

I'm also not going back to physical copies. The fastest CD/DVD drive is about 20 times as slow as a normal harddrive. A harddrive is pretty slow compared to a baseline SSD.
Going back to physical media is not going to help the hobby.
I also would run out of room to store it. I often wouldn't be able to play it before launch because now I'd need the disk and delivery would certainly not get to me before release.

Originally posted by Low Standards:

You don't own anything, and that mean they can make you sign-up to PSN at will. They can remove the game from you account at will. They could make you decide to dance in the rain one day at will.

Guys, ownership is incredibly important in America and always has been. You don't license most of the stuff in your house, then why games?

Please everyone, reconsider your views on this. At least give it some thought.

You don't own the games. You own a license to play it. What Sony did with Helldivers 2 is real bad but for me it wouldn't stop me from playing the game. I can sign up for a Playstation account without a problem. It is a problem for people in countries that are blocked.

Video game companies will never be able to mind control people. Just stop with such silly conspiracy theories.

Games are licensed because we've done this our full life. It's normal in this business.

[Wolfpig]

Originally posted by Low Standards:

Guys, ownership is incredibly important in America and always has been.

If that is the case, then why are all the big platforms on which you only buy licenses based in the US?

[Low Standards]

Originally posted by Zefar:

Originally posted by Low Standards:

People, there have been so much bad news recently about Early Access and digital only that it is time to reconsider whether video games and this hobby is important to you?

What Early Access games have been messing up lately? It's been pretty quiet on that front to be honest.
Well there was that 1 zombie game.

I'm also not going back to physical copies. The fastest CD/DVD drive is about 20 times as slow as a normal harddrive. A harddrive is pretty slow compared to a baseline SSD.
Going back to physical media is not going to help the hobby.
I also would run out of room to store it. I often wouldn't be able to play it before launch because now I'd need the disk and delivery would certainly not get to me before release.

Originally posted by Low Standards:

You don't own anything, and that mean they can make you sign-up to PSN at will. They can remove the game from you account at will. They could make you decide to dance in the rain one day at will.

Guys, ownership is incredibly important in America and always has been. You don't license most of the stuff in your house, then why games?

Please everyone, reconsider your views on this. At least give it some thought.

You don't own the games. You own a license to play it. What Sony did with Helldivers 2 is real bad but for me it wouldn't stop me from playing the game. I can sign up for a Playstation account without a problem. It is a problem for people in countries that are blocked.

Video game companies will never be able to mind control people. Just stop with such silly conspiracy theories.

Games are licensed because we've done this our full life. It's normal in this business.

You really don't get it do you?

[Low Standards]

Originally posted by Wolfpig:

Originally posted by Low Standards:

Guys, ownership is incredibly important in America and always has been.

If that is the case, then why are all the big platforms on which you only buy licenses based in the US?

Because Americans are easy to fool to be honest. Things like telling you in small letters you need a PSN account, missing it or realizing later your country is not in the mix. We seek convivence and that means digital downloads, losing all right to anything, and not being about to play a game the way you want. Even the possibility that the game could be delisted. There are so many problems with it I doubt it will be like this forever.

Remember though, you are on a Steam fan forum, so expect most replies to be hostile.

[Soren]

Yeah, I fail to see how digital games being put onto physical discs would fix the problem of online focused games doing bad things. My latest computer doesn't have a disc drive either. It's saved me money to go that route, as well as made building my PC easier.

[( ( < < <🤖> > > ) )]

you need hard drives these days... who is going to burn a 50 disc game..... LOL

[Komarimaru]

Well this is the Silliest argument I've seen in a while.

Online game has a requirement.

Someone says Physical Discs would have prevented this.


What? Surely no one would believe such drivel, since physical media has nothing to do with an online only game.

[Piston Smashed™]

I live in the UK it's always raining here so dancing in the rain is what we do...

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

The CEO of Arrowhead already admitted fault at not making sure people were aware enough that bypassing the sign in was only temporary.

Since users fail to read before buying, in addition to ignoring the super obvious errors when entering the game, this is an example that even if they made yet-another popup, people would still be outraged because they wouldnt've read it.

Originally posted by Low Standards:

We have to stop sign-ups altogether -- for everything. single player, multi-player, just everything.

"We"? No. While I may be against general login requirements other than Steam, I am content with doing so when I want to play a game and it lists it on a store page. People are really showing a very strong example of PEBKAC.

This entire thing other than selling in psn-unsupported countries is still primarily people choosing not to read then complaining about it. No big neon sign, "click to verify you understand" popups or anything of the sort will stop people from just pushing through, failing to read, and thinking it'll all be fine by not reading.

It's also a great example of people not reading, why many things have warning signs, cautions etc and people still try to sue because "they didn't know" despite signs/cautions/warnings being everywhere.

It's like the saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". You can show people things, signs, warnings, sign stuff, check a box, click to continue, put notices in the game, in the game hub, on the website, social media etc, and people will still be outraged because they failed to read it. The Dev/Sony having to make statements later or add more & more information is because people refused to read. When do we get to a point where having to put notices/writings/announcements, checking boxes, hitting buttons is so over-bearing because companies decide that the consumer base can't be trusted to read the most basic things on websites?

Should gaming companies start treating consumers like children since they refuse to read? Would people complain if they started doing such because of people not reading, and blindly unquestionably following clickbait outrage youtubers without doing the most basic research? Afterall, if they can listen for prolonged periods of time for youtubers, shouldn't they be able to take 10 seconds on the product page to read requirements like "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account) "?

Seems very interesting people will spend so much time with clickbait youtubers not questioning them for a moment, but still zero time reading the products page.

Originally posted by Low Standards:

Originally posted by Wolfpig:

If that is the case, then why are all the big platforms on which you only buy licenses based in the US?

Because Americans are easy to fool to be honest. Things like telling you in small letters you need a PSN account, missing it or realizing later your country is not in the mix. We seek convivence and that means digital downloads, losing all right to anything, and not being about to play a game the way you want. Even the possibility that the game could be delisted. There are so many problems with it I doubt it will be like this forever.

Remember though, you are on a Steam fan forum, so expect most replies to be hostile.

Small letters? It's completely identical to the rest of the info & the crucially-important info which people should know are in orange boxes, which is a shining example that people are not even looking at the products page.

[BJWyler]

I have given it thought over the last 20 years. And I've come to peace with the way technology has advanced and both the benefits and drawbacks of where the technology is taking us.

Look at all the subscription services that are available today. From Television shows to shoes to dinner meals. Sometimes convenience is worth the price.

What do we own in all reality? What does all this crap you have sitting and collecting dust down in the basement really matter when you're six feet under. It don't mean squat. Perhaps what people really need to start to think about is what really matters in life, and owning crap ain't it.

The results of digital distribution for me have meant I have been able to play a vastly superior number of games of all types and sizes that I would not have been able to experience without it. It means I can buy into not only watching, but participating in a game's development COMPLETELY OF MY OWN VOLITION, and I have the full intelligence capacity to understand that a lot of times, games never get finished. I have ability to complete a raid with my friends on my desktop PC in the morning, and take a lunch break by playing a game from my library on my laptop while sitting on the beach in the afternoon, with no worries about installations, discs, or compatibility.

So no, Sonny Jim, I'm not going to feed into your wailing and gnashing of teeth over manufactured crises because you would rather keep living in the stone age. I'm perfectly satisfied with gaming today, and I don't see that changing any time before I meet my Maker. So go peddle that nonsense elsewhere, because I know what's really important to me, and I am reminded of the real important things in life every time I look into the eyes of an animal I rescued from the streets, or the smile on the face of a homeless person when I provide them with clothing and a hot meal for the day. I know what's important every time I see the look of pure joy on the faces of my children when they succeed at school and work, and their ability to experience joyful things in life, like riding a horse for the first time, or earning their driver's license. And that's all the ownership I need.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

The CEO of Arrowhead already admitted fault at not making sure people were aware enough that bypassing the sign in was only temporary.

They should have just put a huge neon red arrow sign next to the login prompt for people that can't read the storepage.

Whatever is stated on the login prompt is irrelevant, because you cannot get to see the login prompt until you've already purchased the game. It falls foul of the same problems as boxed-in EULAs: can't demand people to be bound to terms they couldn't have familiarized themselves with in advance of entering into contract.

What Arrowhead and Sony should've done is use stronger messaging to counter the voices from the gaming community that the sign-in could be skipped. They should've continuously reminded that the skip-able nature was a temporary thing only.

And this is exactly what Arrowhead's CEO admits to having done poorly.

The other half of the mess, with the game being sold in regions where people cannot even create a PSN account without creating an out-of-region account with falsified personal information that violates the PSN terms of service, that is wholly on Sony. Because Sony being the publisher is the one deciding where the game ends up sold. And they messed up in initially not properly limiting the applicable regions on Steam.

[Thermal Lance]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

They should have just put a huge neon red arrow sign next to the login prompt for people that can't read the storepage.

Whatever is stated on the login prompt is irrelevant, because you cannot get to see the login prompt until you've already purchased the game.

What they should've done is use stronger messaging to counter the voices from the gaming community that the sign-in could be skipped. They should've continuously reminded that the skippable nature was a temporary thing only.

And this is exactly what Arrowhead's CEO admits to.

The mess with the game being solid in regions where people cannot even create a PSN account without violating Sony's terms of service by creating an out-of-region account with falsified personal information, that is wholy on Sony. Because Sony being the publisher is the one deciding where the game ends up sold. And they messed up in initially not properly limiting the applicable regions on Steam.

They should have put a huge red neon sign somewhere else then. Doesn't matter to me since I didn't buy the game the moment I saw PSN on the store page.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

They should have put a huge red neon sign somewhere else then. Doesn't matter to me since I didn't buy the game the moment I saw PSN on the store page.

I think a huge neon sign wouldn't have helped, sadly.
No matter where it were placed.
The problem is in other sources still indicating the sign to be wrong.
And what was needed was a stronger message to indicate those sources were actually wrong.

[Thermal Lance]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

They should have put a huge red neon sign somewhere else then. Doesn't matter to me since I didn't buy the game the moment I saw PSN on the store page.

I think a huge neon sign wouldn't have helped, sadly.
No matter where it were placed.
The problem is in other sources still indicating the sign to be wrong.
And what was needed was a strong message to indicate those sources were wrong.

Guess people are more like lemmings than I gave them credit for.