This latest SBI nonsense is a great reason to avoid steam

[ffrotty]

The review and curator systems are just fodder for sabotage and strongarming false impressions of a game. It isn't that expensive to astroturf a ton of accounts to leave parroting, pandering reviews or curate with dubious intentions/sources, as seen by this latest "controversy."

Likewise, allowing anyone who doesn't own a game to go into a forum and post is hilariously bad, all of the forums for the last dozen games I've played have been clogged with concern trolls.

Further, in all of this fake outrage that will easily die off and be forgotten, games that aren't on steam are basically shielded from this. Alan Wake 2 and GOW Ragnarok are SBI games, but hey, they aren't review bombed simply because they're not on steam.

The steam forums should separate those who own the game from those who don't. Let there be a default "non-owner" forum (I'd prefer that didn't exist) or a setting that hides any thread created by a non-owner and any replies by non-owners. That solves the forum spam.

For reviews, there is no good solution that maintains people being able to review besides giving more granular scoring. Even a -0+ system is better than what's there now. I don't think it's salvageable, just like other systems just had to get rid of it, because it is flat out exploitable and can absolutely interrupt games dev cycles. I've seen games that had potential get bombed and the devs gave up entirely, and didn't continue with the game that wasn't as bad as the reviews. And I've seen the opposite: games shilled early and hard that lured people into buying them.

[Start_Running]

As has been pointed out,
Dev/Pubs already have the option to restrict all but one of their forums to owners only.
The Vast majority don't since it honestly hurts their business more than it helps..

The SBI nonsense is basically why people need to just stop listening to Gaming/Youtube Journops. The latter make their money by stoking the fires of paranoia and outrage, and the FGormer... well pretty much does the same thing.

Judge a game based on it's wn merit. not by who is, or who you think is involved in the production and for the love of the elder gods learn to separate the art from the artist. People do themselves a great disservice by denying themselves the enjoyment of a piece of art because they didn't agree with or like the beliefs or attitudes of the creator. I mean if people had that mindset no lovecraft inspired fiction, media, or game could exist.

[Crashed]

The only problem I have with Valve/Steam is that they keep dangling deals in my face.

[The nameless Gamer]

引用自 Start_Running：

As has been pointed out,
Dev/Pubs already have the option to restrict all but one of their forums to owners only.
The Vast majority don't since it honestly hurts their business more than it helps..

The SBI nonsense is basically why people need to just stop listening to Gaming/Youtube Journops. The latter make their money by stoking the fires of paranoia and outrage, and the FGormer... well pretty much does the same thing.

Judge a game based on it's wn merit. not by who is, or who you think is involved in the production and for the love of the elder gods learn to separate the art from the artist. People do themselves a great disservice by denying themselves the enjoyment of a piece of art because they didn't agree with or like the beliefs or attitudes of the creator. I mean if people had that mindset no lovecraft inspired fiction, media, or game could exist.

If only this kind of take was more of a rule than an exception, not the other way around. Way too many people yelling "don't play this game" for one reason or another. "It's a woke game!", "It's a game without enough DEI!" "It's this, it's that...". People seem to judge games based on EVERYTHING else except its merit today.

[Zefar]

引用自 Start_Running：

The SBI nonsense is basically why people need to just stop listening to Gaming/Youtube Journops. The latter make their money by stoking the fires of paranoia and outrage, and the FGormer... well pretty much does the same thing.

Oh please, Youtubers are in a lot of ways more reliable than main stream media these days.
Plenty of the big ones need to gain the trust of users that watch it because if they lose it, it's very hard to regain. Channels have died due to it.

Take TotalBiscuit for instance. He called out Developers and Publishers that had a NDA where people needed to sign if they wanted to get early access to their game and they couldn't say anything bad about it in the "review".

So then when other Youtubers took the review copy and gave it a glowing review people got real suspicious about those Youtubers. Those people couldn't be trusted but TotalBiscuit could be trusted. Which is why he took off so quickly. Or do you think he's completely unreliable in terms of gaming news back in the day?

He also actively started to refuse any sort of goodie bag from game companies because he mentioned that he got an Alienware laptop with a game that he could keep. He ended up not doing a review on the game.
He had standards, standards that plenty of Youtubers have as well.


There is plenty of proof too that Youtubers show about SBI stuff.

引用自 Start_Running：

Judge a game based on it's wn merit. not by who is, or who you think is involved in the production and for the love of the elder gods learn to separate the art from the artist. People do themselves a great disservice by denying themselves the enjoyment of a piece of art because they didn't agree with or like the beliefs or attitudes of the creator. I mean if people had that mindset no lovecraft inspired fiction, media, or game could exist.

We've seen what SBI have done. Forspoken, Suicide Squad and more.
We don't need to see more.

[The nameless Gamer]

引用自 Zefar：

We've seen what SBI have done. Forspoken, Suicide Squad and more.
We don't need to see more.

Too many people are so busy with what SBI have done tha they fail to notice the ten thousands of (games) things they HAVEN'T done.

[Altimely]

引用自 The nameless Commander：

引用自 Zefar：

We've seen what SBI have done. Forspoken, Suicide Squad and more.
We don't need to see more.

Too many people are so busy with what SBI have done tha they fail to notice the ten thousands of (games) things they HAVEN'T done.

They'll also handwave successes like Baldur's Gate 3.

[The nameless Gamer]

引用自 Altimely：

引用自 The nameless Commander：

Too many people are so busy with what SBI have done tha they fail to notice the ten thousands of (games) things they HAVEN'T done.

They'll also handwave successes like Baldur's Gate 3.

And that's why we should judge each game individually by its merit, not by who or what had its part in making it.

[MonkehMaster]

ya, too many people simply brush off youtube videos, without actually looking into and researching whats being said.

simply googling all the stuff, you can find much of the stuff in videos, sites and comments, that has been shown, about all of the stuff, ends up actually being true.

in any case, research it yourself, then vote with your wallet.




edit: thanks for the points.

[chorion]

引用自 Start_Running：

The SBI nonsense is basically why people need to just stop listening to Gaming/Youtube Journops. The latter make their money by stoking the fires of paranoia and outrage, and the FGormer... well pretty much does the same thing.

"racism ,misandry, slander , hate speech, banning and cancellation,mass reporting , media hit squad articles , race grifting, destroying gaming for ideological reasons and getting paid for it, discriminatory hiring practices, It is all wokers groups rights. like the "gaming media" and SweetBaby and many others"

"NONSENSE"....( if done by "progressives" )

[Crashed]

引用自 Zefar：

引用自 Start_Running：

The SBI nonsense is basically why people need to just stop listening to Gaming/Youtube Journops. The latter make their money by stoking the fires of paranoia and outrage, and the FGormer... well pretty much does the same thing.

Oh please, Youtubers are in a lot of ways more reliable than main stream media these days.
Plenty of the big ones need to gain the trust of users that watch it because if they lose it, it's very hard to regain. Channels have died due to it.

Take TotalBiscuit for instance. He called out Developers and Publishers that had a NDA where people needed to sign if they wanted to get early access to their game and they couldn't say anything bad about it in the "review".

So then when other Youtubers took the review copy and gave it a glowing review people got real suspicious about those Youtubers. Those people couldn't be trusted but TotalBiscuit could be trusted. Which is why he took off so quickly. Or do you think he's completely unreliable in terms of gaming news back in the day?

He also actively started to refuse any sort of goodie bag from game companies because he mentioned that he got an Alienware laptop with a game that he could keep. He ended up not doing a review on the game.
He had standards, standards that plenty of Youtubers have as well.


There is plenty of proof too that Youtubers show about SBI stuff.

引用自 Start_Running：

Judge a game based on it's wn merit. not by who is, or who you think is involved in the production and for the love of the elder gods learn to separate the art from the artist. People do themselves a great disservice by denying themselves the enjoyment of a piece of art because they didn't agree with or like the beliefs or attitudes of the creator. I mean if people had that mindset no lovecraft inspired fiction, media, or game could exist.

We've seen what SBI have done. Forspoken, Suicide Squad and more.
We don't need to see more.

If you were still a moderator how would you handle a thread like this?

And those two games probably received a lot of unnecessary hate.

[chorion]

引用自 MonkehMaster：

ya, too many people simply brush off youtube videos, without actually looking into and researching whats being said.

simply googling all the stuff, you can find much of the stuff in videos, sites and comments, that has been shown, about all of the stuff, ends up actually being true.

in any case, research it yourself, then vote with your wallet.

Everything has been true.....all of it

[Start_Running]

引用自 Zefar：

引用自 Start_Running：

The SBI nonsense is basically why people need to just stop listening to Gaming/Youtube Journops. The latter make their money by stoking the fires of paranoia and outrage, and the FGormer... well pretty much does the same thing.

Oh please, Youtubers are in a lot of ways more reliable than main stream media these days.
Plenty of the big ones need to gain the trust of users that watch it because if they lose it, it's very hard to regain. Channels have died due to it.

Reliable? Hardly and they both work the same grift.Create/Fiind outrage, and then feed that outrage for clicks and views.

引用自 Zefar：

Take TotalBiscuit for instance. He called out Developers and Publishers that had a NDA where people needed to sign if they wanted to get early access to their game and they couldn't say anything bad about it in the "review".

So then when other Youtubers took the review copy and gave it a glowing review people got real suspicious about those Youtubers. Those people couldn't be trusted but TotalBiscuit could be trusted. Which is why he took off so quickly. Or do you think he's completely unreliable in terms of gaming news back in the day?

Would you know if TB accepted a gratutty for a favourable review?
how would you know if those reviewers didn't genuinely feel the way they did about the games.
Unless you're Jean grey or Prof X... youbasically just picking a narrative based on your own bias don't you think?

引用自 Zefar：

He also actively started to refuse any sort of goodie bag from game companies because he mentioned that he got an Alienware laptop with a game that he could keep. He ended up not doing a review on the game.
He had standards, standards that plenty of Youtubers have as well.

Plenty of journos have it, but do they apply it all the time and can you honestly tell when they do or don't? Think really hard about it. The answer will probably be uncomfiortable.

Everyone has a price agfter all and tghose that won't lie for swag or money, will lie for their ideals.

引用自 Zefar：

引用自 Start_Running：

Judge a game based on it's wn merit. not by who is, or who you think is involved in the production and for the love of the elder gods learn to separate the art from the artist. People do themselves a great disservice by denying themselves the enjoyment of a piece of art because they didn't agree with or like the beliefs or attitudes of the creator. I mean if people had that mindset no lovecraft inspired fiction, media, or game could exist.

We've seen what SBI have done. Forspoken, Suicide Squad and more.
We don't need to see more.

Bad games are just bad games. They aren't a sign of some grand conspiracy.
SBI may just be bad at their job. And that's honestly fine. All I'm saying is judge the product, not the person who packaged it. . I mean this whole issuee shows if nothing that both sides are basically just mirrors of each other.

[AlexTheRedScout]

引用自 ffrotty：

The review and curator systems are just fodder for sabotage and strongarming false impressions of a game. It isn't that expensive to astroturf a ton of accounts to leave parroting, pandering reviews or curate with dubious intentions/sources, as seen by this latest "controversy."

Likewise, allowing anyone who doesn't own a game to go into a forum and post is hilariously bad, all of the forums for the last dozen games I've played have been clogged with concern trolls.

Further, in all of this fake outrage that will easily die off and be forgotten, games that aren't on steam are basically shielded from this. Alan Wake 2 and GOW Ragnarok are SBI games, but hey, they aren't review bombed simply because they're not on steam.

The steam forums should separate those who own the game from those who don't. Let there be a default "non-owner" forum (I'd prefer that didn't exist) or a setting that hides any thread created by a non-owner and any replies by non-owners. That solves the forum spam.

For reviews, there is no good solution that maintains people being able to review besides giving more granular scoring. Even a -0+ system is better than what's there now. I don't think it's salvageable, just like other systems just had to get rid of it, because it is flat out exploitable and can absolutely interrupt games dev cycles. I've seen games that had potential get bombed and the devs gave up entirely, and didn't continue with the game that wasn't as bad as the reviews. And I've seen the opposite: games shilled early and hard that lured people into buying them.

we already discussed this before no its not its not even a reason don't try to revive a topic for clout

[MonkehMaster]

引用自 chorion：

引用自 MonkehMaster：

ya, too many people simply brush off youtube videos, without actually looking into and researching whats being said.

simply googling all the stuff, you can find much of the stuff in videos, sites and comments, that has been shown, about all of the stuff, ends up actually being true.

in any case, research it yourself, then vote with your wallet.

Everything has been true.....all of it

yep, all anyone has to do is look it up and find out themselves.

[xBCxRangers]

Don't know what SBI even is, but just spent 30 bucks to support Devs here i think do a great job, promising i wouldn't spend another penny here, to go right into Mr Newells pockets.

If not for them, he wouldn't see another thin dime given how he runs this place.

Stop carrying these GREAT games, Mr Newell