In Defense of Gender Representation in Video Games

[Michael-san OP]

https://youtu.be/muLE6UpN0Dk

[Michael-san OP]

Nguyên văn bởi The nameless Commander:

For a game to succeed, the developer has to know their audience. As in what the audience wants from it. And that's not related to the players' sex or gender. It's related to whether the game scratches a certain itch. As long as the game doesn't have technical issues, the gameplay is good and the design is pretty, it doesn't matter whether the characters' sex doesn't matter, or at least it shouldn't. A male/female protagonist should never be the main selling point of a game. The 90ies are over. Video game protagonists have graduated from being either a middle-aged, grizzled male with a tragic and vengeful backstory or a generic action hero shooting bad jokes quicker than bullets (a la Duke Nukem). The protagonist doesn't even need to be human. It can be an elf, a dwarf, an alien from a planet or galaxy far, far away or not even a living creature (Megaman is a ROBOT, despite the human face). The whole debacle around the sex of video game characters is narrow-minded and shallow. A sentient toaster can be a video game protagonist and the video game can still be great.

I also pointed that out in my video. This user makes the most sense on this thread.

[The nameless Gamer]

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

Nguyên văn bởi miakisfan:

Couldn't have been said any better.

People who make it more about themselves and their *group* fail to see that video games that end up being most popular tend to invite all groups to play ... not just the vocal minority.

And there's nothing wrong with video games made for a very specific group. I mean niche genres are indeed a thing. and many common genres now were once niche. Video Gaming itself was niche. Though the problem is these days people make for niche and then expect everyone outside of the niche to support it...because the niche is too small to be financially viable .

Or people expect every existing video game to cater to them specifically. And if it doesn't, they don't feel "represented" for one reason or another. And another battle in the culture war breaks out.

[SKARDAVNELNATE]

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

was anyone ever against the representation of men ior women in games?

I always preferred pixelated characters that didn't look human. Facial features? What facial features? Give me the boxing guys from the Atari game as the player character.

Nguyên văn bởi EFFE:

So, can I ask for a video game with a male protagonist, looking like a Finnish Viking? And that he does not lose all his masculinity and strength in the course of videogame story? That he also falls in love with women?

Have you played Overlord 2?

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

Well to make a good game , like any piece of entertainment media, you have to have an audience in mind. No entertainment experience will be universally appealing to everyone.

Yes, I agree. But publishers seem to not understand this. These day they keep saying that not every game is made for you. Yet they still expect you to buy it. And also you're a bad person if they don't meet their sales expectations.

Nguyên văn bởi Michael-san OP:

You're all missing my point in the video.

So this is about the character design in a fighting game that came out in 2003. Do you make any points that relate to anything more recent? Over sexualization isn't the gender representation issue that comes to mind today.

[Start_Running]

Nguyên văn bởi SKARDAVNELNATE:

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

was anyone ever against the representation of men ior women in games?

I always preferred pixelated characters that didn't look human. Facial features? What facial features? Give me the boxing guys from the Atari game as the player character.

Heh heh.

Nguyên văn bởi SKARDAVNELNATE:

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

Well to make a good game , like any piece of entertainment media, you have to have an audience in mind. No entertainment experience will be universally appealing to everyone.

Yes, I agree. But publishers seem to not understand this. These day they keep saying that not every game is made for you. Yet they still expect you to buy it. And also you're a bad person if they don't meet their sales expectations.

The chase for the mythical 'wider audience'.
Really this has been happening in film, and games, and literature.
You don't win new people in by toning down what made it popular with the core audience you win more by simply exposining more people to it or maybe giving them an easy entry point.

FF2/4 did the same thing. It eased down the diffuiculty but it still priovided a fair entry point for new comers to JRPGS. Advanced Wars and Fire Emblem did the same for TTRPGs.

In all the successful cases you find that the developer trusts in the appeal of their core.

Modern execs however got the idea that if you just change the original to be more like something that the new demographic you're trtying to reach likes, you'll get the new demographics...

WHich NEVER WORKS. And opnly ever loses you the old fans and doesn't bring in enough new fans to replace them.

This is what happens when the pe9ople at the top making the decisions are disconnected from both the audience they are trying to appeal to AND the creation process.

[SKARDAVNELNATE]

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

The chase for the mythical 'wider audience'.
Really this has been happening in film, and games, and literature.

It seems that's not even the issue anymore. Now publishers will say we don't want these people in our community. They think there is a huge untapped market that is being scared off by toxic gamers.

Then they realize that untapped market was tiny and a far greater number of people left than they attracted making them go surprised pikachu over it. "But... you weren't suppose to leave. You were suppose to buy the game to demonstrate how tolerant you are."

[Kargor]

Nguyên văn bởi SKARDAVNELNATE:

"But... you weren't suppose to leave. You were suppose to buy the game to demonstrate how tolerant you are."

Yeah well.. I'm with Carol Danvers on this: https://youtu.be/0KK1Kv0IzUg?t=83

[Ben Lubar]

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

Nguyên văn bởi Ben Lubar:

That's what happens when game developers try to appeal to any demographic rather than just making a good video game.

Well to make a good game , like any piece of entertainment media, you have to have an audience in mind.

If that audience is not the developer of the game, the game will be bad.

[Michael-san OP]

Nguyên văn bởi SKARDAVNELNATE:

Nguyên văn bởi Start_Running:

The chase for the mythical 'wider audience'.
Really this has been happening in film, and games, and literature.

It seems that's not even the issue anymore. Now publishers will say we don't want these people in our community. They think there is a huge untapped market that is being scared off by toxic gamers.

Then they realize that untapped market was tiny and a far greater number of people left than they attracted making them go surprised pikachu over it. "But... you weren't suppose to leave. You were suppose to buy the game to demonstrate how tolerant you are."

I apologize for not being able to respond to your response to me, but to answer it, I was mainly talking about Soul Calibur in my video because I know more about it than every other fighting game. I brought up Soul Calibur 2 because it wasn't until that game was released that the series really became controversial, and as a fan of Soul Calibur, I am offended by it's unfair reputation in the video game industry. I defend it's female characters and their designs, and I know about their development, and did my best to describe it.

[SKARDAVNELNATE]

Nguyên văn bởi Michael-san OP:

I defend it's female characters and their designs, and I know about their development, and did my best to describe it.

Ah, yes. I gathered as much from the video itself. Also I appreciate that you are passionate about something and want to share that with others. Though this might not be a good forum to discuss fighting games depending on the number of people who enjoy that genre which may be visiting here at any given time. Further the controversial subject seems a bit outdated. Maybe there is something similar going on with Stellar Blade recently. But it might not even be that controversial compared to other issues people have in mind.

[Tito Shivan]

Nguyên văn bởi The nameless Commander:

For a game to succeed, the developer has to know their audience.

And that's the kicker. Paraphrasing a bit the old and wise Abe Simpson

"I used to be the audience, but then they changed what the audience was. Now what I’m with isn’t the audience anymore and the audience now seems weird and scary... It’ll happen to you!"

[The nameless Gamer]

Nguyên văn bởi Tito Shivan:

Nguyên văn bởi The nameless Commander:

For a game to succeed, the developer has to know their audience.

And that's the kicker. Paraphrasing a bit the old and wise Abe Simpson

"I used to be the audience, but then they changed what the audience was. Now what I’m with isn’t the audience anymore and the audience now seems weird and scary... It’ll happen to you!"

Pretty much. But the other kicker is that games for most, if not all audiences are still being MADE. People are just lazy to find them. With a growing wishlist and backlog despite gaming since 1997, I really can't understand the mentality of people still stuck in the past they're glorifying.

[BOBTOMAS]

Nguyên văn bởi The nameless Commander:

Nguyên văn bởi Tito Shivan:

And that's the kicker. Paraphrasing a bit the old and wise Abe Simpson

"I used to be the audience, but then they changed what the audience was. Now what I’m with isn’t the audience anymore and the audience now seems weird and scary... It’ll happen to you!"

Pretty much. But the other kicker is that games for most, if not all audiences are still being MADE. People are just lazy to find them. With a growing wishlist and backlog despite gaming since 1997, I really can't understand the mentality of people still stuck in the past they're glorifying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ5dNkst4m4