Clarification of Steam Refunds & Beta Access

[RaunchyFartBomb]

To quote the current steam refund page:

REFUNDS ON TITLES PURCHASED PRIOR TO RELEASE DATE
When you purchase a title on Steam prior to the release date, the two-hour playtime limit for refunds will apply (except for beta testing), but the 14-day period for refunds will not start until the release date. For example, if you purchase a game that is in Early Access or Advanced Access, any playtime will count against the two-hour refund limit. If you pre-purchase a title which is not playable prior to the release date, you can request a refund at any time prior to release of that title, and the standard 14-day/two-hour refund period will apply starting on the game’s release date.


My question is this: currently FrostPunk2 shows I have roughly 7 hours played. That was during their 1 week beta. But the beta was installed through the standard game page. Does that count towards the 2 hour limit? (Especially since it is currently not playable due to being outside the beta window) ?

I’m using this as an example for clarification because it’s a concrete one, where the beta access play time should not necessarily count towards the ‘advanced access’ that comes with the deluxe edition (which was required for beta access)

[Malfunctioning Robot]

ALl playtime counts now. So yes. It counts. You played the game.

[Rin]

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/
Abuse

Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.

10 years old at this point. It's been quite clear.

[Chika Ogiue]

Originally posted by RaunchyFartBomb:

I’m using this as an example for clarification because it’s a concrete one, where the beta access play time should not necessarily count towards the ‘advanced access’ that comes with the deluxe edition (which was required for beta access)

You've pretty much explained yourself why the beta time should count. If it was a perk of buying a specific edition prior to release, then it is akin to advanced access anyway. So yes, such beta playtime should count toward the refund window, and now does.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:

Originally posted by RaunchyFartBomb:

I’m using this as an example for clarification because it’s a concrete one, where the beta access play time should not necessarily count towards the ‘advanced access’ that comes with the deluxe edition (which was required for beta access)

You've pretty much explained yourself why the beta time should count. If it was a perk of buying a specific edition prior to release, then it is akin to advanced access anyway. So yes, such beta playtime should count toward the refund window, and now does.

The beta part is what i'm sorta ambiguous about. Beta's are often buggy, have issues, etc so its not a good view of what the final game will be.

Now the early access like Starfield with the headstart, 100% agree with stuff like that counting. Beta's however are more tricky.

[Chika Ogiue]

Originally posted by brian9824:

The beta part is what i'm sorta ambiguous about. Beta's are often buggy, have issues, etc so its not a good view of what the final game will be.

When you're using it as a sales point and only granting access with a purchase, it stops being an actual beta and is just an excuse to let people play ahead of time for a while. In such cases, I see no reason for it not to count the playtime.

Actual betas, the one's where developers want real testing, are not sold. I don't know if you've been in such testing (I've been in quite a few), but those are generally handled as steam keys designated as for beta testing. E.g.: "Azur Lane: Crosswave for Beta Testing"

These keys can then either be revoked or allow access to the released game afterwards.

That said, I do wonder about "playtest" games. But those, too, are free, and specifically identified to my knowledge as "<<game>> Playtest for store signup" and removed from accounts automatically at the end of the test.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:

Originally posted by brian9824:

The beta part is what i'm sorta ambiguous about. Beta's are often buggy, have issues, etc so its not a good view of what the final game will be.

When you're using it as a sales point and only granting access with a purchase, it stops being an actual beta and is just an excuse to let people play ahead of time for a while. In such cases, I see no reason for it not to count the playtime.

Actual betas, the one's where developers want real testing, are not sold. I don't know if you've been in such testing (I've been in quite a few), but those are generally handled as steam keys designated as for beta testing. E.g.: "Azur Lane: Crosswave for Beta Testing"

These keys can then either be revoked or allow access to the released game afterwards.

I've done quite a few free beta's, the problem is those on Steam are often under the game itself, they don't always have a separate page. So the beta playtime counts against the game playtime.

That is going to be problematic now as free beta playtime will count as hours played for the game, so if you then buy a game and dont like it within the 2 hours the free beta playtrime you did might now count against your ability to refund.

[Rin]

Alpha/Beta content might as well be called EA but then you have people who can't seem to differentiate what EA means. Plenty of high budget games are in in either state because shareholders demand profits ad infinitum.

And for some calling something v1.0 Early Access is not okay but Alpha or even Beta v1.0 somehow is. They are all the same thing in the end. The dev can even state something as release ready, gold or even public or finished when in most cases (as defined by anyone) can mean anything.

All products are EA in the end because there is no such thing as a perfect (pasta sauce) product. Even "finished" should be counted as EA because innovation is a thing just as much as entropy is a thing. Even just water you buy is a treated ever evolving product.

FOMO, narcissism and coomerism only made things that much more apparent. and "speedrunners" are a testament to that. and for those that need a TLDR; products are like wiki articles.

[Chika Ogiue]

Originally posted by brian9824:

That is going to be problematic now as free beta playtime will count as hours played for the game, so if you then buy a game and dont like it within the 2 hours the free beta playtrime you did might now count against your ability to refund.

Playtest games aside, how many of the activated betas have you then had revoked at the end? In all the cases I can recall from my tests, only one was revoked and the appid was different when it was then sold. But that was a long time ago. And all tests I've been in since have not revoked the game, so there's nothing to refund. As the game was free anyway.

I don't know what will happen with Playtest games. I've only tried one and it hasn't been released yet*. The game is no longer attached to my account and I played it for less than an hour.

* And checking the game is no longer even on Steam.

[Brian9824]

Can't remember off hand, it might get messy, but i understand the spirit of it. The main intention is to nip the abuse of the "play 3 days early" scenarios, but will have to see what ripples this has

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by dazza0511:

I like this policy update. No more abusing games that have early access by pre-purchasing, playing the game to completion and getting a refund before it releases. Starfield had 5 days early access and people were playing 50 hours and getting refunds before it released and I knew then that this was big abuse.

Yeah. People did that with CoD MWII and III.