What does Steam define as "harassing or insulting" behaviour?

[Dal420]

This is a fairly vague description which opens up the ability for any developer to paint a broad brush stroke and eliminate any criticism whatsoever because they claim it is harassment or insulting to them.

There is literally no way to go through life without offending someone merely by having a differing opinion than them, so if you can't share your opinion because it may offend someone causing them to feel "harassed" or "insulted", then what is the actual point of having Steam discussions at all?

It's just another Reddit circle-jerk platform where the only people who feel comfortable speaking up are like minded individuals who all agree with each other. Everyone else = banned.

If you want to know what living in a communist society is like: welcome to Steam.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by Dal420:

Originally posted by Mad Scientist:

That is not truthful about the situation, there was no "power trip", it was more that their patience was exhausted, and entering the hub of another game they made to try re-igniting stuff resulted in the same action being applied.

Steam isn't the issue especially for patient Developers & Hub moderators, often a user is their own worst enemy when they believe they do nothing wrong but when an entire involved community, dev mod and dev all agree that the user is the issue, then clearly the user is the issue. Even outside observers overwhelmingly agreed. Misleading the OP to believe there's an issue where there isn't is not helping the situation.

And so, going by this logic, a permanent ban for calling a game trash is justified because the overwhelming majority of the "community" disagree with me?

So, I can't have an opinion unless it aligns with the "majority".

Do you have any idea how dangerous this line of thinking is?
Ex. = North Korea.

They're raining their trash on South Korea, and Steam is letting devs rain trash down on me.

Well I for one am sick of it.

Clearly Steam cares more about the devs than the customers, so if that's their stance on this whole thing, clearly the only thing to do is what xBCxRangers said and that is to simply move on.

I have been on the fence about Steam for a few months now, but this cements it for me. I was at least going to pick up a few DLCs to complete some of my games, but I'm not even feeling that anymore. Trying to find if there is a way to clear my entire Steam wishlist at once.

What happened to you was finding out after trying to ♥♥♥♥ around.

Some devs don't care if it's the first infraction. They've learned it's easier to remove the problem before it takes root.

[Haruspex]

Originally posted by Dal420:

This is a fairly vague description...

You'll find this is actually intentional. It gives moderators some degree of discretion, in theory at least.

If they defined "harassing or insulting behavior" more narrowly, it would help bad actors to harass or insult others without technically breaking the rules.

In my experience, I recommend just don't make any statements about any specific person, unless it's wholly and sincerely positive. I once caught a ban over the weekend for saying someone was "quite the character", so it's not even egregious insults that catch moderation action. My guess is moderation is taken almost exclusively in response to reports, and from what I've seen they look at the reported comment exclusively without taking any other comments into context at all.

Respond to ideas, not to the individual, and you should be safe.

[Dal420]

Originally posted by Haruspex:

Originally posted by Dal420:

This is a fairly vague description...

You'll find this is actually intentional. It gives moderators some degree of discretion, in theory at least.

If they defined "harassing or insulting behavior" more narrowly, it would help bad actors to harass or insult others without technically breaking the rules.

In my experience, I recommend just don't make any statements about any specific person, unless it's wholly and sincerely positive. I once caught a ban over the weekend for saying someone was "quite the character", so it's not even egregious insults that catch moderation action.

Respond to ideas, not to the individual, and you should be safe.

And yet...
"You have been banned from Warhammer 40,000: Warpforge Community Hub
You have been banned from Warhammer 40,000: Warpforge Community Hub by a Warhammer 40,000: Warpforge developer for your post in "Raging Storm Passive of Adepta Sororitas and others":
Trash game made by a trash company
This is a permanent ban."

[Dal420]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by Dal420:

And so, going by this logic, a permanent ban for calling a game trash is justified because the overwhelming majority of the "community" disagree with me?

So, I can't have an opinion unless it aligns with the "majority".

Do you have any idea how dangerous this line of thinking is?
Ex. = North Korea.

They're raining their trash on South Korea, and Steam is letting devs rain trash down on me.

Well I for one am sick of it.

Clearly Steam cares more about the devs than the customers, so if that's their stance on this whole thing, clearly the only thing to do is what xBCxRangers said and that is to simply move on.

I have been on the fence about Steam for a few months now, but this cements it for me. I was at least going to pick up a few DLCs to complete some of my games, but I'm not even feeling that anymore. Trying to find if there is a way to clear my entire Steam wishlist at once.

What happened to you was finding out after trying to ♥♥♥♥ around.

Some devs don't care if it's the first infraction. They've learned it's easier to remove the problem before it takes root.

Well, yeah, don't anybody ever DARE ♥♥♥♥ around, for sure.

... But what does that even mean?

[Haruspex]

Originally posted by Dal420:

"You have been banned from Warhammer 40,000: Warpforge Community Hub

Ah. You see, game specific forums all have their own policies and moderators separate from Valve's own moderation. Unless requested otherwise, Valve largely allows game developers to manage their own communities, so from one game to the next you can find wildly different moderation policies.

Sounds like the moderators of that particular game just don't want to hear whatever it was you had to say.

[Dal420]

Originally posted by Haruspex:

Originally posted by Dal420:

"You have been banned from Warhammer 40,000: Warpforge Community Hub

Ah. You see, game specific forums all have their own policies and moderators separate from Valve's own moderation. Unless requested otherwise, Valve largely allows game developers to manage their own communities, so from one game to the next you can find wildly different moderation policies.

Sounds like the moderators of that particular game just don't want to hear whatever it was you had to say.

Sounds perfectly reasonable.

The same way it's perfectly reasonable for me to never give these same developers a penny and to throw a negative review their way every chance that I get.

And the same goes for Steam/Valve if they feel it's okay to give developers that kind of power to harass their customers.

[Over It]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

You can call someone a "poopie head" and get banned for it, being it's deemed an insult.

But if you call someone "an uneducated bottom feeder", you won't.

The fact of it is, it all really depends who the moderator is taking the report, what your past history is, and the relationship some may have with moderators or developers, be it here or the game hubs.

And before all the Valvists come in, to tell you "just behave and act civil and you will have nothing to worry about", every one of those said posters, have been banned, regularly. Everyone one of them, without exception.

That is false.

You're correct. In the Dead by Daylight forum, both would get you a permanent ban. It's only false for really bad communities like Mortal Kombat and Call of Duty.

[Dal420]

The truth is, the whole thing is so bloody stupid.

As a developer, why alienate your customers like this?

There is so little they can do, so they ban me from a stupid discussion forum for a game that I was on the fence about to begin with for simply stating an opinion.

Well, if I was on the fence before, I'm firmly on one side of the fence now, and wouldn't want to take part in the discussions there if I was allowed at this point anyways.
So, what have they accomplished?

Actions speak louder than words.

My words may have irritated them, but their actions speak volumes to me.

[Dal420]

And here's the nail in the coffin for Steam:

"This community hub ban was issued by the developer's moderation staff.

Developers follow the Global Rules & Guidelines, but they may also have specific rules regarding what content is acceptable in their game hub.

We won't be reversing their decision, so we recommend contacting their support team for further information and to appeal:
Warhammer 40,000: Warpforge support

Steam Support
Wallace"

[Dal420]

"Developers follow the Global Rules & Guidelines, but they may also have specific rules regarding what content is acceptable in their game hub."

Meaning = they can do whatever the hell they want.

[Komarimaru]

Originally posted by Dal420:

"Developers follow the Global Rules & Guidelines, but they may also have specific rules regarding what content is acceptable in their game hub."

Meaning = they can do whatever the hell they want.

As you've been told, many times now. Same reason you're allowed to do whatever you want in your own house.

[Dal420]

Message from you on Jun 2 @ 12:37pm | 1 minute ago
Good, then consider me an ex-customer.

I'm considering getting a group of like minded serious individuals together to begin a legal battle against Valve and Steam to get the laws about selling and trading accounts changed.

It's where we're at at this point. You guys took it there.

Is there a way to delete my entire wishlist without doing it one at a time?

[AustrAlien2010]

Instead of burning all bridges, you might just as well try to understand it better. Or maybe try to learn something from it.

Harassment often has to do with the frequency and or environment in which something occurs.
Insults are when something is taken as an insult. And that depends on whoever takes it as an insult.
There aren't any clear rules that state: this is an insult and this is not.
How it is conceived as depends on the receiver. If they take something for an insult, then it's an insult to them. (Having a different opinion or view on the matter, or meaning to say something else doesn't change that they take it for an insult.)

[Aachen]

We’ll all be waiting to see the reports of the legal action.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Dal420:

"Developers follow the Global Rules & Guidelines, but they may also have specific rules regarding what content is acceptable in their game hub."

Meaning = they can do whatever the hell they want.

To put it bluntly:
They can make what they want here, or they can pack and make what they want elsewhere (Reddit, Discord, self-hosted forums).

Steam is the community space provider and they seem to have taken the stance to only act at an administrative level. Just like Reddit admins or Discord Staff would do.