3rd Party Accounts and Steam

[Beltneck]

So for some products on the Steam Store, it is clearly listed "This game requires a 3rd Party account to play". And that is totally fine, you're being expressly told a limitation of that product. Their first time signing in with Steam has you fill out a username, password, and recovery email; and you then have full account access through Steam or the 3rd Party's Website.

However, some products do not expressly tell you the limitations when signing up through Steam. They pass themselves off as a complete product, but deny you access to tech support and other account features. The only thing they ask of you when signing up through Steam is to enter a Username, then the account is created, and you are able to play through Steam. But when you go to that 3rd Party's website, you are asked to enter a Username and Password, no recovery email was collected when the account was created and they don't accept the email you use with Steam, they don't accept your Steam Login, and Steam does not give you any kind of login key to enter on the 3rd Party site,

Then when you ask Steam to help with a resolution, Steam just tells you to log into the 3rd Party's website - which you can't do. Because after you went through Steam's catalogue, pressed "Install" on a product that Steam advertises, and then went to your Steam library to press "play" - you were only ever asked to enter a Username. You were not asked to fill out more information, and you were never warned of any account access limitations by signing up this way.

I find it very hard to believe that Steam has no access to that 3rd Party account, since every time you press "play" from the Steam library, you are able to then play that 3rd Party's game. So the mechanics of how they connect really don't matter, it is clearly possible for them to connect. It doesn't matter if they use fax machines, smoke signals, morose code, and homing pigeons to connect, or which one of them initiates the connection between Steam and the 3rd Party - they are clearly able to connect the "play" button from your Steam library, to logging into a 3rd Party's servers. That mechanic is really not the issue.

The issue is that the user is being advertised a complete product, but is actually receiving a product with limited account access. I get how the 3rd Party messed up by not collecting proper information on account creation, but Steam also messed up by allowing false advertisements on it's platform. So for Steam to act like it has no responsibility in resolving the issue is just wrong.

At the very least, products need to be properly labelled about their missing components. It would be nicer if you could use your Steam Login on all 3rd Party sites that choose to sell on Steam, but I'm sure that is a much harder fix to implement. So the ones who cannot accept a Steam Login should be required to collect necessary information for logging into their website too. Sell a complete product, or warn buyers that your product is missing features - simple.

Some examples of this are Star Trek Online and Runescape; and if those two do it, there are likely more that do it too. Maybe others have had a better experience, or even found a solution; but this has been my experience with Arc and Jagex. Only ever being asked to fill out a Username after launching from Steam, then not being able to log into those 3rd Parties' websites because they require a Username and Password.

[Wolfpig]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Steam definitely created the account, and saves the login information somewhere to be able to log into that game's servers every time you press "play". Because I was never asked to give an email or password, I just installed something directly from steam's store, and it automatically logs into that 3rd party on its own.

No, in case of some f2p mmo etc., you login trough steam, the game only gets the "serial" with which the game is "registered" on your steam account, and is using that to be sure that ther account in question is the one which is tied to the ingame account.

There are neither Username or passwords created in that process and therefore you are not able to login directly on the site of that game/service.
If you need direct tech support there and they only offer that with an account....create one.

Back in the day before valve unified their support system to the normal account you had to create a separate support account too......

[76561198407601200]

Crazy Tiger původně napsal:

Beltneck původně napsal:

Still haven't answered the question.

How do you log into those 3rd party websites if steam doesn't give you the information steam created, and the 3rd party won't accept your steam credentials?

Steam definitely created the account, and saves the login information somewhere to be able to log into that game's servers every time you press "play". Because I was never asked to give an email or password, I just installed something directly from steam's store, and it automatically logs into that 3rd party's system on its own.

I'm sure your reading comprehension cannot be that lacking. Reread all my posts, I addressed it all already.

It is called trolling ;)

[Caduryn]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Why is it that steam will allow 3rd party launchers and create login information for you to play that game, but you cannot log into that 3rd Party's websites with your Steam information, and Steam will not give you the login information they created with that 3rd Party?

Steam definitely creates and saves login information for you, for some games anyway. Because it never asks you to enter a password or give an email; all you need to do to play that other game is press "install" and "play". Then steam automatically makes an account with that 3rd party, but you are never privy to that username and password that is saved with Steam.

So how do you log into that 3rd party's website if steam won't give you the login information is saves, and that 3rd party won't accept you steam credentials?

Seems like a weasley way for that 3rd Party and Steam to get out of offering tech support to the user, since Steam will just tell you to log into the 3rd Party's website to file a ticket, but you can't log into that website since Steam won't give you the information they created and definitely save somewhere on their platform.

Examples: Runescape, Star Trek Online.

Because Steam has no Monopoly

[Kargor]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Examples: Runescape, Star Trek Online.

I just took a quick look at the Runscape website, and the login prompts that I'm getting has a "Or login with..." and there's a Steam icon there.

So, if you're playing through Steam, just use that and you'll end up with the same account.

[Kargor]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Kargor původně napsal:

I just took a quick look at the Runscape website, and the login prompts that I'm getting has a "Or login with..." and there's a Steam icon there.

...and it doesn't work at all. Have tried a dozen times, and it never accepts my steam login.

Ok, tthat I cannot verify. When I use that login, I end up with a message that there's no Runescape data associated with my Steam account, which is correct.

So I report the problem with Steam, they say "talk to Jagex"

Which is correct; Steam has no access to anything Runescape-ish, and your problem is with their website, not with Steam.

I can assure you, there are so many websites that use "Login though Steam", if that system went down, Steam would know about it.

But can't log in to Jagex to report the problem.

Have you tried asking on the Runescapes forums on Steam? Maybe somebody else had the same problem and solved it.

[Kargor]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Steam should just get you to properly create an account with that 3rd party, so you can login with an email/username and password wherever you please, instead of this quasi-account system it uses.

Steam offering that would be an entirely new system; such accounts are created on sites and systems that Valve has no access to, and Valve has zero interest in getting that access anyway because they can't support hundreds or thousands of external sites. I don't even want to imagine the backlash they'd be getting if they screwed up a 3rd party system because one of their hundreds of accounts-creation modules doesn't work properly...

And frankly, for most people, having to actively create an account for a game that they are playing on Steam is an annoyance (because they already have a Steam account, so why do they need another one...), not something on their wishlist. Which is why Steam added the login-through-Steam in the first place.

Also, take Steams account protections -- "login through Steam" is way more secure than most of the websites it's used on. Using it on the non-Steam website gives users all that security with no extra hassle at all, because they've already set it all up on Steam...

If their website doesn't work properly, my first thing to try would be a different browser. Also, what kind of error are you getting (that's *actually* the first thing I'd look at, to see if that gives me an idea).

[Chika Ogiue]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Star Trek Online

In the case of this game, it warns you during creation that you'll not be using one of their accounts. You have to okay this before continuing. You're also given the option of creating an account on their platform before you even select to use only Steam. If you wanted to use their first party account, why did you choose to only use Steam as the login?

[Liquid Inc]

Kargor původně napsal:

Beltneck původně napsal:

...and it doesn't work at all. Have tried a dozen times, and it never accepts my steam login.

Ok, tthat I cannot verify. When I use that login, I end up with a message that there's no Runescape data associated with my Steam account, which is correct.

So I report the problem with Steam, they say "talk to Jagex"

Which is correct; Steam has no access to anything Runescape-ish, and your problem is with their website, not with Steam.

I can assure you, there are so many websites that use "Login though Steam", if that system went down, Steam would know about it.

But can't log in to Jagex to report the problem.

Have you tried asking on the Runescapes forums on Steam? Maybe somebody else had the same problem and solved it.

No point in that, they shut down the forums a few weeks ago. No one can post there, and soon the whole thing will be deleted, so that's not an option.

They moved everything to Discord... Jagex has a support ticket system like Steam, so that's the option i would pick

[Chika Ogiue]

Beltneck původně napsal:

It never asked me anything like that on startup. It just automatically made an account.

I literally just tried it. And the first thing it does after downloading the launcher is prompt for an account.

Have you at least made an account via Arc and then contacted their support?

[Chika Ogiue]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Well its nice that you get options, but I don't. Can't report these discrepancies in installation processes to Steam either, despite them being the ones who offer it.

Then you must have already linked it. Because until you choose to do that, it doesn't happen.

Also, have you tried launching the Star Trek Online.exe directly from the installation folder?

[Chika Ogiue]

Beltneck původně napsal:

I've never touched STO outside of steam, there was nothing to link. Steam just created an account right after I installed and pressed "play" from the Steam Library.

If you never had an account and don't want to make one, then what is your problem? If you want to make an account, then launch the exe from the folder. Or are you just complaining for the purpose of complaining and not actually looking for a solution?

[Kargor]

Beltneck původně napsal:

In essence, you have a 2nd class account that is missing critical features, if you sign up with some things through Steam.

That's certainly possible, but it's not Steams fault as Steam does absolutely nothing when it comes to 3rd party accounts. They just provide an option for 3rd party companies to link back to Steam accounts.

[Chika Ogiue]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Please don't behave like this is Reddit. The problem has been clearly stated multiple times. So far everyone's replies boil down to Ad Homonym and Ignoratio Elenchi fallacies.

I have no idea what Reddit has to do with your failure to accurately explain your issue.

All I see here is that you haven't stated clearly what you're getting mad about.

If you didn't already have an STO account and opted to skip through creation without reading what you were doing -- which is the ONLY way you'd have wound up like this with STO -- then you're the only one to blame for your problem.

If you wanted to create an account, after "accidentally" opting for Steam only sign in place of a full account, I've already shown you how. Again, if you don't want an account and can use the Steam only login, what EXACTLY is your issue here?

Beltneck původně napsal:

Steam automatically creates an account, then gives you absolutely no login credentials for logging into that 3rd party's website.

Yet again, in the case of STO, you are WARNED exactly that this is what will happen when you first chose to use a Steam only sign in after choosing to ignore the account sign in/account creation screen that displays FIRST. You even have to press OKAY before you can move forward with the Steam only sign in.

[Crazy Tiger]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Steam creates and saves sign in information with the 3rd Party; but does not make any of that information available to you.

No, it's the other way around, as people have been trying to explain to you. The system the game devs/publishers use create and save login information and tie that to the Steam account.

[Kargor]

Beltneck původně napsal:

Crazy Tiger původně napsal:

No, it's the other way around, as people have been trying to explain to you. The system the game devs/publishers use create and save login information and tie that to the Steam account.

Steam SAVES that information, because it definitely uses that information every single time it signs into the 3rd party's service.

Steam never signs into a 3rd-party service. When you launch the game, the game reports your Steam-account to the 3rd-party server, which then uses said account to locate the corresponding account on their service.

( From a technical perspective it's probably slightly more complex to maintain security, but the end result should be as described. I'm not a game developer. )

But Steam DOES NOT make that information available to you.

Yes, because they don't have it.