Gaming giant Steam accused of ripping off 14m UK gamers. Class action suit in the UK filed

[Dura_Ace]

Per BBC news. Front page today.

These are the same accusations that google was accused of doing when it comes to the %30 commission/"fee".


Butit also goes deeper as Steam is accused of using one sided agreements that prohibit sales of the game for cheaper on competing platforms. A so called "price parity" agreement. Which will be deemed to be illegal. Just because you sign up to a one sided EULA or a one sided legal agreement does not by far mean that this is legal.

I am pretty sure Valve will settle and attempt to steer terms. The loss in court could be catastrophic for Steam so my thoughts are that it will settle without admitting guilt. Shame really.

[Lone Wolf]

conservative party needs cash for the party election 2024 pay up valve !

[Soren]

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

The reason prices aren't cheaper on other stores is that the game developers set the prices to be the same across the board.

Publishers sometimes sell keys on alternative sites that beat the prices of Steam. I'm not talking sites like G2A. Or platforms like EGS.

I'm talking other sites that people sometimes bring up when a Capcom game is about to launch on Steam. The kind of site that gives them 10-20% off even though the game isn't out yet. And if too many people buy from those third party sites they're usually stuck waiting for a steam key on launch day.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

The UK is a European country sir, and yes, Valve is again being sued. What is your excuses this time?

If people spent more time, in criticizing Valves policies, rather than these word salads, they may understand, these TOS mean absolutely nothing as it pertains to our laws.

That Valve does screw up. That Valve does lose these suits at times. That Valve, like many other gaming companies, are no better than any other, when it comes to following our laws.

That like any other company that breaks the law, should be held to ACCOUNT.

Being a European country does not mean they are part of the EU.

They left the EU a few years ago. it was called Brexit.

And that worked out so well for them.

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Again no evidence of such special agreements.

And there we have it, you completely destroyed your entire argument.

Well you're free to ask around the various publishers. Just saying. kinda sus that EGS's prioces match everywhere else's don't you think. Almost as if there was some reason for developers not to jack up the price on that store front.
MIght odd yes-yes.

The fact that the same can be said for literally EVERY other online retail platform that sells third-party titles kinda prioves my point in of itself.

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Just like how you say there is no evidence for such special agreements, it is exactly the same with GOG/EGS, there is literally no such evidence of such an agreement and yet here you are claiming there is such an agreement does exist like it is a fact.

Well we KNOW EGS engages in all kindas of special agreements that they only offer to select publishers. You know like the various flavours of paid exclusivity.
Or are ye gonna say there's no evidence of that either hmm?

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

You can't have it both ways, you cannot say such and such doesn't exist since there is no evidence of such a thing existing, while claiming something else does exist despite no evidence of such a thing existing.

As said. we've seen no evidence in how Valve treats publishers. NO publisher on Valve gets any special treatment and Valve as pointed out is more than happy to let a publisher walk away and do their own thing. See EA and Ubisoft., and even EPic.

We know Timmy tried to get a special deal going with Valve but Valve shut him dopwn so hard.
And we know that EA couldn't bend Valve's ear and they were honestly the publisher with the most leverage to do so. If they couldn't, then not likely anyone else can.

I acknowledge the possibiluity in a few places like say the deferred app-fee.
I can also see them making special arrangements where the proceeds of the sales are paid directly to a recognized and registered charitable organization.

But outside those. not much reason for Valve to alter their terms now is there?
As said. They were happy enough to let a mega publisher like EA walk away. So it's clear there are no publishers big enough to compell CValve to alter their terms. Ahd there's no evidence of Valve squeezing a dev/pub for more money either.

So no one can force valve to give ground, and no one has shown evidence of Valve demanding more than advertised from dev/pubs. So in which direction would these special dealings go m8?

Outside the scenarios I've already mentioned..

Maybe you need to realize that Sweeny. isn't 'The Good king' you seem to think he is m8. Business is business and it's fairly easy to guess at what goes behind the scenses when you understand the forces at play.

Of course if you only approach it as a vaopid consumer who never askes where hamburger meat,m or any of the ingredients come from. Then I'm syure the whole thing would appears as some un fathomable mystery box.

[Komarimaru]

Funny seeing the normal trolling come out of hiding. I'm wagering a few of them will delete their posts in mass later as well when yet again proven wrong.

I do wish Valve moderation would have stuck to the permaban thing. Forums would be so much quieter and cleaner again.

[WolfEisberg]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Being a European country does not mean they are part of the EU.

They left the EU a few years ago. it was called Brexit.

And that worked out so well for them.

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

And there we have it, you completely destroyed your entire argument.

Well you're free to ask around the various publishers. Just saying. kinda sus that EGS's prioces match everywhere else's don't you think. Almost as if there was some reason for developers not to jack up the price on that store front.
MIght odd yes-yes.

The fact that the same can be said for literally EVERY other online retail platform that sells third-party titles kinda prioves my point in of itself.

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Just like how you say there is no evidence for such special agreements, it is exactly the same with GOG/EGS, there is literally no such evidence of such an agreement and yet here you are claiming there is such an agreement does exist like it is a fact.

Well we KNOW EGS engages in all kindas of special agreements that they only offer to select publishers. You know like the various flavours of paid exclusivity.
Or are ye gonna say there's no evidence of that either hmm?

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

You can't have it both ways, you cannot say such and such doesn't exist since there is no evidence of such a thing existing, while claiming something else does exist despite no evidence of such a thing existing.

As said. we've seen no evidence in how Valve treats publishers. NO publisher on Valve gets any special treatment and Valve as pointed out is more than happy to let a publisher walk away and do their own thing. See EA and Ubisoft., and even EPic.

We know Timmy tried to get a special deal going with Valve but Valve shut him dopwn so hard.
And we know that EA couldn't bend Valve's ear and they were honestly the publisher with the most leverage to do so. If they couldn't, then not likely anyone else can.

I acknowledge the possibiluity in a few places like say the deferred app-fee.
I can also see them making special arrangements where the proceeds of the sales are paid directly to a recognized and registered charitable organization.

But outside those. not much reason for Valve to alter their terms now is there?
As said. They were happy enough to let a mega publisher like EA walk away. So it's clear there are no publishers big enough to compell CValve to alter their terms. Ahd there's no evidence of Valve squeezing a dev/pub for more money either.

So no one can force valve to give ground, and no one has shown evidence of Valve demanding more than advertised from dev/pubs. So in which direction would these special dealings go m8?

Outside the scenarios I've already mentioned..

Maybe you need to realize that Sweeny. isn't 'The Good king' you seem to think he is m8. Business is business and it's fairly easy to guess at what goes behind the scenses when you understand the forces at play.

Of course if you only approach it as a vaopid consumer who never askes where hamburger meat,m or any of the ingredients come from. Then I'm syure the whole thing would appears as some un fathomable mystery box.

its not sus for the prices to not be higher on Epic when they are only taking 12%. So your argument here makes absolutely zero sense.

Epic made their agreements with publishers for the exclusivity deals publicly known. No way shape or form does that prove you saying there is factually such a price parity agreement to even exist with EGS.

Well, considering you are trying to claim that Epic/GOG factually has price parity agreements despite the very fact that there is zero proof that it exists at all, and then you turn around and say Valve does not have special agreements with because no such evidence exists is once again you trying to have it both ways, you can't.

You are destroying your own argument over and over again.

So if you want to claim that Epic/GOG do have Price parity clauses, then you must prove it, and you have not provided a single proof for it at all.

And yes, you saying there is no evidence of valve not having special agreements with dev/pubs, is exactly the same as there is no evidence of Epic/GOG having pricing parity clauses, yet you will talk about the latter like it is an absolute fact despite zero proof to back it up, and your reasoning for saying it is a fact is the same exact reasoning that can be said that Valve has special agreements with the big publishers and saying its a fact.

[GGcake]

classic steam move

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

The UK is a European country sir, and yes, Valve is again being sued. What is your excuses this time?

If people spent more time, in criticizing Valves policies, rather than these word salads, they may understand, these TOS mean absolutely nothing as it pertains to our laws.

That Valve does screw up. That Valve does lose these suits at times. That Valve, like many other gaming companies, are no better than any other, when it comes to following our laws.

That like any other company that breaks the law, should be held to ACCOUNT.

Being a European country does not mean they are part of the EU.

They left the EU a few years ago. it was called Brexit.

I never said they were. Read what was said..

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Our European friends don't fool around. Are you listening, Ms Khan?

It has nothing to with the EU sir. They're a country in Europe (that is a continent), and therefore a European country.

I think a big issue in trying to understand eachother, is reading.

That being said, there will be many more suits coming forward, as were predicted, and as they are.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Being a European country does not mean they are part of the EU.

They left the EU a few years ago. it was called Brexit.

I never said they were. Read what was said..

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Our European friends don't fool around. Are you listening, Ms Khan?

It has nothing to with the EU sir. They're a country in Europe (that is a continent), and therefore a European country.

I think a big issue in trying to understand eachother, is reading.

That being said, there will be many more suits coming forward, as were predicted, and as they are.

They're actually part of the European region. They aren't attached to the continent and are no longer governed by the EU. Which is the European government.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

I never said they were. Read what was said..



It has nothing to with the EU sir. They're a country in Europe (that is a continent), and therefore a European country.

I think a big issue in trying to understand eachother, is reading.

That being said, there will be many more suits coming forward, as were predicted, and as they are.

They're actually part of the European region. They aren't attached to the continent and are no longer governed by the EU. Which is the European government.

They are a EUROPEAN COUNTRY. Geez o mighty. Instead of admitting a mistake, they play word salad games. You made a mistake. Lets move on.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

They're actually part of the European region. They aren't attached to the continent and are no longer governed by the EU. Which is the European government.

They are a EUROPEAN COUNTRY. Geez o mighty. Instead of admitting a mistake, they play word salad games. You made a mistake. Lets move on.

There is no mistake.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

They are a EUROPEAN COUNTRY. Geez o mighty. Instead of admitting a mistake, they play word salad games. You made a mistake. Lets move on.

There is no mistake.

Many European Countries are not members of the EU. That does not mean they are not Europeans or European countries.

Notwithstanding, for every excuse made here on behalf of Valve, there will be yet another lawsuit. That seems the track record.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

There is no mistake.

Many European Countries are not members of the EU. That does not mean they are not Europeans or European countries.

Notwithstanding, for every excuse made here on behalf of Valve, there will be yet another lawsuit. That seems the track record.

You must be reading different news then.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Many European Countries are not members of the EU. That does not mean they are not Europeans or European countries.

Notwithstanding, for every excuse made here on behalf of Valve, there will be yet another lawsuit. That seems the track record.

You must be reading different news then.

We must be, being i'm waiting for evidence that seems to be slandering these lawyers suing Steam. It just seems, the biggest thieves and robbers are the ones actually trying to hold Steam accountable, and not Steam itself. Very interesting indeed. Have a pleasant night.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

You must be reading different news then.

We must be, being i'm waiting for evidence that seems to be slandering these lawyers suing Steam. It just seems, the biggest thieves and robbers are the ones actually trying to hold Steam accountable, and not Steam itself. Very interesting indeed. Have a pleasant night.

Hold Steam accountable for charging an industry standard percentage for sales on their platform?

Uh huh....

[Ben Lubar]

TL:DR version: The UK lawsuit has the same false claim as the Wolfire Games lawsuit that Steam has a "most favored nation" clause in the terms given to developers. They simply do not have that.

More info:

Don't believe me? Read the agreement yourself. There's not a single requirement listed about the price of a game, inside or outside of the Steam storefront: https://partner.steamgames.com/newpartner/signlatestsda/

This misconception comes from a misreading of the Steam Key guidelines: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys#3

The Steam key guidelines basically say that you can't use Steam's own services to scam Steam users. The thing they care about is mostly that a game with 1X purchases on Steam isn't requesting 1000X keys. They're very lax about the pricing part, something that Wolfire Games should know, having started the Humble Bundle. There are also multiple kinds of Steam keys that developers aren't allowed to sell at all.

The second misconception, referenced in the article's title, is that Steam's 30% cut is out of the ordinary. Other than the Epic Games Store, which has never been profitable, every major store takes a similar cut to Valve's 20-30%. Even brick-and-mortar stores charge about 30% more than what the publishers get. And the publishers have to produce their own physical copies of the game, so the net profit is even lower for brick-and-mortar stores.

https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2019/09/GameRetailerCuts_infographic-1.png

Okay, but what about Steam's 30% cut increasing prices for consumers? Well, we have an easy way to figure out if a lower cut would result in lower prices for consumers. Epic only takes 12% and Itch's cut can be as low as 0%. Let's look at some games that are currently featured on the front page of those stores that are also on Steam.

Black Myth: Wukong costs $59.99 on EGS and $59.99 on Steam. Amusingly, both also have $9.99 upgrades to the $69.99 deluxe edition, meaning that buying the basic edition and then "upgrading" costs a penny less than just buying the deluxe edition directly. Still, no difference in prices.

Concord is also on both EGS and Steam, again with matching prices. $39.99 for the standard edition, $59.99 for the deluxe. No silly penny-cheaper upgrade this time.

The third game listed on the EGS front page (skipping the free-to-play ones because comparing $0 to $0 isn't interesting) is Grand Theft Auto V. $29.99 (on sale for $14.99) on EGS, $29.98 on Steam (it recently went on sale during Endless Replayability Fest for $14.98 and it was also $14.98 in the spring sale, so it's likely going to go on sale for $14.98 again for the summer sale).

So our findings from the front page of EGS are that reducing the cut from 30% to 12% increases the price to consumers by a penny. Okay, let's just ignore that and say the prices are the same.

Now let's check what happens if the minimum cut for the store is 0%.

First featured game is Kamaeru: A Frog Refuge, selling on itch.io for $19.99, is also on sale 10% off on Steam for 17.99. Let's be charitable and just assume that it'll be on sale for a similar amount on itch eventually.

The next non-free game on itch's front page is clickyland, for $5 on itch and $4.99 on Steam. Okay, this is weird, why is Steam consistently getting prices that are a cent cheaper?

The final game that has a nonzero price on the itch.io front page is Arctic Eggs. For sale for $8.99 on itch, or $9.99 on Steam. Huh, an actual price difference. However, the reason becomes clear if you look at itch.io's sales page: https://itch.io/games/on-sale there's not a single game in there that I've heard of, so it looks like game developers for the kinds of games that exist outside of itch.io prefer to keep their games at a stable price on itch rather than going on periodic sales like everywhere else. Probably because there's no mention of the sales outside of that sales page.

So in conclusion, does a different store cut change the price of a game? Probably not. Prices are dictated by what people are willing to pay for a game, and a company that thinks players are willing to pay $60 for a game probably won't sell it for a different price at a different store to try to make the amount of money they get after fees about the same.

We didn't even need to visit those other stores to find that out, though. The proof that prices aren't based on the amount of money the developer makes is right here. Regional pricing.

Grand Theft Auto costs $29.98 in the US, but in Uruguay it's only $14.90. In Brazil, it's $15.25. In Ukraine, it's $15.53.

Prices aren't based on how much money the developer makes. They're based on how much money customers are willing to pay and the range of prices that would make the specific game look like it's worth buying. Too high or too low and players will get the game via other means or just not play it at all. None of that has anything to do with the store's cut.