How long could Steam realistically support SteamCMD/OldClient login on XP/7/8 ?

[TrantaLocked]

Valve stated that support for Windows 7 only dropped because of Chromium dropping support, so hypothetically had it not been for that they would still want to support Windows 7 into the future indefinitely.

But there are still ways to login and play officially on XP with the 2019 Client method or SteamCMD method and the modern client still works in Windows 7/8. As long as login is supported on the older operating systems (that many games explicitly support), then you will have a way to play. And that's at the least with an archive import if or when game downloads get totally disabled with any client method, which I honestly don't have a huge problem with.

The real problem will be when log in is disabled on these operating systems. How long could or will Steam support the login API used with XP/7/8? People have mentioned security concerns, but as long as the login API is secure and it works with XP, there shouldn't be a problem right? Because if people can't login, they would need to crack their DRM protected games to continue playing on an old system that doesn't support Windows 10+. Which of course I believe they have the right to do. Many PCs don't support new operating systems, but can still find use for LAN parties, kids, nostalgia sake, etc. Who hasn't taken out their old Pentium-based PC to play some RollerCoaster Tycoon on Windows 98? You still own the game and your PC still supports it! You don't need to use an old computer with the internet to benefit from its ability to play your old supported games - some of which like 16-bit games no longer work in Windows 10 and 11 without running in a VM.

The way I see it is the only good reason for Steam to totally disable user login on an XP/7/8 client is when a login API change is required for security reasons and those operating systems don't support the API change, and Valve doesn't want to do the work to make it compatible. Even though I do think they should do the work since people purchased their games advertising explicit support for these operating systems. But can we really expect that to happen any time soon or even at all?

[TrantaLocked]

Messaggio originale di Komarimaru:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

You live in a fantasy land if you think the average Steam user is going to read a giant wall of text that in the end doesn't even have absolute legal standing.

It's been upheld many times now, actually. Until a law comes into affect that forces them to change anything in it, it's 100% legal as it stands right now.

And those people that attempted to sue, will not. Those that persisted it fell through. Why? Because as stated, you have to agree to the terms, for account creation and before you're allowed to make any purchases.

Failure to read a very simple agreement, the only simpler one being from GoG, is on the user and their error, not Valves.

The unique circumstances of digital PC game ownership and access and its inevitable future have not yet been the subject of lawsuits especially considering they aren't even needed yet. And unethical EULA's have absolutely been shot down before in court.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

You unironically think oh well 16-bit games are just the exception

Here is your solution for that: https://github.com/otya128/winevdm

This is free and it allows 64-bit versions of Windows 10 and Windows 11 to run 16-bit applications and games. You can't argue about 16-bit games not running in Windows 10 64-bit (or Windows 11 which is always 64-bit) anymore.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

, but no in thirty years all Windows XP and 7 games will still work on Windows 20.

That is why I chose my words very carefully in my response that I wrote: "So far to date", which means that we only have information up to today's version of Windows 11. I did not speak of any future versions of windows. You seem to have a problem of "seeing things" that people did not write then responding about them as if someone wrote things that we did not write. Maybe you should get your eyes checked by a professional.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

Also forgetting that some games needed to be PATCHED to work in Windows 10 and that in thirty years there inevitably WILL be abandoned games that don't get patched.

Any game that required a patch to work in Windows 10 also required patching to work in Windows 7 as well. Your argument there is invalid.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

People are 100% allowed to use their old computers how they want and you can't dictate that. An old PC isn't useless just because it won't be used on the internet.

Again: I never claimed to tell people how to use their computers and I never claimed old computers are useless. I personally have Windows 7, Windows 98, and Windows XP machines that run the OS native and sometimes play old games on them for that retro nostalgia experience.

However things change over time. Steam changes over time. Everyone that created a steam account even back in the early first days that steam first released all consented to and agreed to the Steam SSA stating that steam can and will change the system requirements of the steam client in the future. Everyone that has a steam account agreed to comply with this and to keep their computer in compliance with whatever steam's new system requirements are. You even agreed to that yourself when you checked the [_] box saying you read that agreement and created your steam account.

If people want to continue using Steam then they must upgrade to whatever steam's new system requirements are. There is no way around it.

[Thermal Lance]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

Messaggio originale di Thermal Pineapple:

If you want DRM to be removed. You'd have to convince the publishers to do it. Good effing luck.

But the publishers list support for certain operating systems assuming Steam will ensure their games are accessible on said operating systems. Otherwise they would need to refund people's purchases or risk themselves or Valve getting sued. They can change the requirements on the store page all they want but it doesn't change what you read at time of purchase. If a game's description supports one OS but you can't access it on that OS, THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE.

Good luck in court. Unless you challenge it, this fantasy of yours won't happen.

[Komarimaru]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

Messaggio originale di Komarimaru:

It's been upheld many times now, actually. Until a law comes into affect that forces them to change anything in it, it's 100% legal as it stands right now.

And those people that attempted to sue, will not. Those that persisted it fell through. Why? Because as stated, you have to agree to the terms, for account creation and before you're allowed to make any purchases.

Failure to read a very simple agreement, the only simpler one being from GoG, is on the user and their error, not Valves.

The unique circumstances of digital PC game ownership and access and its inevitable future have not yet been the subject of lawsuits especially considering they aren't even needed yet.

Several cases have happened with many changes proposed. From trying to force Live Services to allow older operating systems access, to re-selling digital games. All have fallen through thus far.

You nailed it right there, unique. In the digital age, you have to keep up to date. Even the FDC asks that users keep their operating systems up to date, as does Enisa(The European Union Agency for Cyber Security).

It's fine to keep retro rigs, but don't expect a live service to support them. I've 4 retro rigs from various eras, I've found a method to play my games on those machines using a modern setup for installs, transfers and verification first.

But no, don't expect support for out dated systems, will never happen.

[TrantaLocked]

Messaggio originale di 🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

You unironically think oh well 16-bit games are just the exception

Here is your solution for that: https://github.com/otya128/winevdm

This is free and it allows 64-bit versions of Windows 10 and Windows 11 to run 16-bit applications and games. You can't argue about 16-bit games not running in Windows 10 64-bit anymore.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

, but no in thirty years all Windows XP and 7 games will still work on Windows 20.

That is why I chose my words very carefully in my response that I wrote: "So far to date", which means that we only have information up to today's version of Windows 11. I did not speak of any future versions of windows. You seem to have a problem of "seeing things" that people did not write then responding about them as if someone wrote things that we did not write. Maybe you should get your eyes checked by a professional.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

Also forgetting that some games needed to be PATCHED to work in Windows 10 and that in thirty years there inevitably WILL be abandoned games that don't get patched.

Any game that required a patch to work in Windows 10 also required patching to work in Windows 7 as well. Your argument there is invalid.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

People are 100% allowed to use their old computers how they want and you can't dictate that. An old PC isn't useless just because it won't be used on the internet.

Again: I never claimed to tell people how to use their computers and I never claimed old computers are useless. I personally have Windows 7, Windows 98, and Windows XP machines that run the OS native and sometimes play old games on them for that retro nostalgia experience.

However things change over time. Steam changes over time. Everyone that created a steam account even back in the early first days that steam first released all consented to and agreed to the Steam SSA stating that steam can and will change the system requirements of the steam client in the future. Everyone that has a steam account agreed to comply with this and to keep their computer in compliance with whatever steam's new system requirements are. You even agreed to that yourself when you checked the [_] box saying you read that agreement and created your steam account.

If people want to continue using Steam then they must upgrade to whatever steam's new system requirements are. There is no way around it.

I never SAID you spoke of future versions of windows. That is the problem, which is that you DIDN'T because you don't have foresight. There are so many damn games on Steam now and the library size is accelerating. They will NOT ALL be patched in the future.

[Komarimaru]

Why would a game need to be patched? I only use my retro rigs for nostalgia and the experience. There's simple fixes to get even the oldest games to run on current hardware and environments with minimal effort.

[Thermal Lance]

Friendly reminder that minor fixes and compatibility voodoo has always been part of retrogaming.

[TrantaLocked]

Messaggio originale di Komarimaru:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

The unique circumstances of digital PC game ownership and access and its inevitable future have not yet been the subject of lawsuits especially considering they aren't even needed yet.

Several cases have happened with many changes proposed. From trying to force Live Services to allow older operating systems access, to re-selling digital games. All have fallen through thus far.

You nailed it right there, unique. In the digital age, you have to keep up to date. Even the FDC asks that users keep their operating systems up to date, as does Enisa(The European Union Agency for Cyber Security).

It's fine to keep retro rigs, but don't expect a live service to support them. I've 4 retro rigs from various eras, I've found a method to play my games on those machines using a modern setup for installs, transfers and verification first.

But no, don't expect support for out dated systems, will never happen.

But retro systems work now because old (single player) games for the most part still work. The new paradigm is that everyone is on Steam now. That is probably not going to change.

Someone did mention activation servers no longer working on certain physical games. Yes that's true and the DMCA has a revision that allows circumvention in such cases of game access being totally inhibited. However, I would really prefer NOT using shady third party cracks or workarounds and Valve just doing it themselves for abandoned games so we can play our games officially without needing to think oh am I possibly breaking the law?

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

I never SAID you spoke of future versions of windows.

Yes you did. Right here:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

but no in thirty years all Windows XP and 7 games will still work on Windows 20. Delusional.

You even insulted me by calling me delusional as well. Your very own words right there. I'm guessing you're probably going to deny writing that. You're fond of denying your own words and pretending you didn't write something.

Also I have now completely debunked your 16-bit game argument. That's not something that can be argued about any further in this thread.

[TrantaLocked]

Messaggio originale di Komarimaru:

Why would a game need to be patched? I only use my retro rigs for nostalgia and the experience. There's simple fixes to get even the oldest games to run on current hardware and environments with minimal effort.

That discussion was about Steam game publishers patching their games so user's licenses are still useable at the very least on the operating systems Steam supports. Some games actually have needed patches.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

That discussion was about Steam game publishers patching their games so user's licenses are still useable at the very least on the operating systems Steam supports. Some games actually have needed patches.

Could you perhaps inform us the names and titles of which games actually require a patch to function in Windows 10?

[TrantaLocked]

Messaggio originale di 🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

I never SAID you spoke of future versions of windows.

Yes you did. Right here:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

but no in thirty years all Windows XP and 7 games will still work on Windows 20. Delusional.

You even insulted me by calling me delusional as well. Your very own words right there. I'm guessing you're probably going to deny writing that. You're fond of denying your own words and pretending you didn't write something.

Also I have now completely debunked your 16-bit game argument. That's not something that can be argued about any further in this thread.

That was an inference into your thinking not a statement about what you literally said. Because you clearly are taking the stance that we don't need to care about future game compatibility.

Using an unsupported 3rd party compatibility layer is not playing the game in an official capacity and is prone to errors and bugs. Steam officially implements and supports proton for steam deck, they don't officially support random github projects.

[Nx Machina]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

You live in a fantasy land if you think the average Steam user is going to read a giant wall of text that in the end doesn't even have absolute legal standing.

Then YOU challenge that in a court of law but you clicked to accept the SSA and a court law does not deem not reading it a valid reason.

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

That was an inference into your thinking not a statement about what you literally said. Because you clearly are taking the stance that we don't need to care about future game compatibility.

No one can tell the future or know what will happen in the future. As well also we should not be concerned with future technology. It may work correctly in the future. It may not. That's not our concern. We should only be concerned with what will work today on today's operating systems only.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

Using an unsupported 3rd party compatibility layer is not playing the game in an official capacity and is prone to errors and bugs. Steam officially implements and supports proton for steam deck, they don't officially support random github projects.

AH! I GOTCHA! See you never said anything about "official capacity" in your first post or the first page of this thread or anywhere else. You just completely made that up yourself. I came up with a solution to your problem and debunked your argument so instead of being happy with it, agreeing, and moving on you decided to fabricate something new so you will have something to argue with. You just demonstrated for everyone to see that you aren't having a discussion. You're only here to argue with other people for no reason at all other than arguing. When you can't find something to argue with you make up things on your own then argue about that. I'm not surprised. You do have a well established history of making up lies in the steam forums so this is not unexpected behavior from you.

[TrantaLocked]

Messaggio originale di 🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊:

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

That was an inference into your thinking not a statement about what you literally said. Because you clearly are taking the stance that we don't need to care about future game compatibility.

No one can tell the future or know what will happen in the future. As well also we should not be concerned with future technology. It may work correctly in the future. It may not. That's not our concern. We should only be concerned with what will work today on today's operating systems only.

Messaggio originale di TrantaLocked:

Using an unsupported 3rd party compatibility layer is not playing the game in an official capacity and is prone to errors and bugs. Steam officially implements and supports proton for steam deck, they don't officially support random github projects.

AH! I GOTCHA! See you never said anything about "official capacity" in your first post or the first page of this thread or anywhere else. You just completely made that up yourself. I came up with a solution to your problem and debunked your argument so instead of being happy with it, agreeing, and moving on you decided to fabricate something new so you will have something to argue with. There we go right there. You just demonstrated for everyone to see that you aren't having a discussion. You're only here to argue with other people for no reason at all other than arguing. When you can't find something to argue with you make up things on your own then argue about that. I'm not surprised. You do have a well established history of making up lies in the steam forums so this is not unexpected behavior from you.

Imagine being this butthurt over a statement that is literally true. I absolutely expect my Steam games to be playable in an official capacity. If you have to patch the games yourself then they aren't officially accessible according to what your Steam game license is intended for. Otherwise, if I didn't care about official accessibility I'd also have been fine with cracking as a long term solution which I explicitly said I don't like. The point of the thread is about official accessibility to Steam games. Read the OP. You simply cannot keep up with the thread and have a disturbing knack for lying and attempting to defame people.