When Valve stops supporting WIndows 10, it'll be interesting community response to it.

[WolfEisberg]

My low end gaming laptop cannot upgrade to Windows 11 at all. While the CPU does support TPM, the bios/motherboard do not, which means there is no way for me to upgrade to Windows 11 on this laptop.

Previously when Valve stopped support of an OS people could just upgrade their OS since the system requirements for the upgraded OS were typically the same as the system requirements for the previous windows version. The same cannot be said about WIndows 11 since it requires the computer to support TPM.

This means for me when Steam no longer works on Windows 10, if I want to continue to play Steam games on a laptop my options will be:

1- Get a new laptop
2- Not play Steam games
3- change to linux

Now personally, option 1 isn't going to happen because I rarely play games on this laptop anyways. So that leaves option 2 and 3. Changing to Linux wouldn't be a big deal because 99% of the use of this laptop is on web browser anyways.

But how this would personally affect me isn't the point anyways. But the community response will be interesting.

There will be people who cannot upgrade to WIndows 11, and they'll have legitimate reasons why which is the lack of TPM support on their PC. Telling people to upgrade to Window 11 won't be a valid suggestion.

Moving to Linux has it's draw backs because it is not as normal user friendly as Windows is, and finding help with various problems that will happen often leads to people telling you to use command line to fix the issue, which often does not come with good instructions on how to do that. So it'll be understandable why people wouldn't want to move to Linux either.

So the response will be very interesting, it won't be the same as it was for Windows 7 purely because of the TPM requirement for WIndows 11.

[AntiGrieferGames]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AyaSensei067:

Ursprungligen skrivet av AntiGrieferGames:

Staying Windows 10 is better to be honest

I'm still staying on Windows 7.

Thats very cool to see in 2024

[MonkehMaster]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AntiGrieferGames:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

nah, win 10 is horrible and its going to be losing microsoft support soon.

I will use 10 after end of life. Its the last good operating system after 7 to be honest.

i agree win 7 was great, but win 10 imo is horrible and i have never had and seen so many issues and even more so on something they couldnt even flesh out properly before they dropped support....

win 11 isnt good either, but at least i dont see or have any of the problems that came with win 10.... but then again, win 10 and 11 are basically the same thing (they are built on the same foundation), so ill just rightly assume win 10 jumped its last win 10 version and they named it win 11 and all the fixes went to win 11.

anywho, im running win 7 pro and win 11 pro, will likely try out steam OS 3 (when it releases) as well on my main pc.

i might even try installing steam OS 3 on the old laptops i mentioned/linked in this thread and see how well it runs on them lol.

edit: win 12 is even worse, filled with more bloat, ads and more AI bs and i fully expect it to run like crap.

[Ben Lubar]

end of support does not mean a hitman will come to your house and forcibly uninstall steam like some of you apparently think it does

[Crashed]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AntiGrieferGames:

Ursprungligen skrivet av AyaSensei067:

I'm still staying on Windows 7.

Thats very cool to see in 2024

Is that to leave the door wide open for Russian hackers?

[Crashed]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

After fall 2024, your CPU will have to support the POPCNT instruction, but that still encompasses Intel processors all the way back to late 2009 and AMD processors back to late 2011.

well i doubt many people are running pc's that old as a daily (anything only supporting up to 4.1).

that being said, microsoft hasnt even pushed that update out yet and we already have bypasses for that nonsense "check" for 4.2 or 4.2a, so that isnt going to be an issue for anyone wanting to use those old pc's.

POPCNT isn't just an arbitrary check on these systems but actually a technical requirement due to compiler settings used to build the system binaries. If a CPU doesn't have this instruction then it will raise an illegal instruction exception which in the kernel means the system halts.

In Linux this is equivalent to x86-64-v2, and some distros have toyed with an x86-64-v3 build which requires AVX2.

[bidulless]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

Ursprungligen skrivet av AntiGrieferGames:

Thats very cool to see in 2024

Is that to leave the door wide open for Russian hackers?

hello
Well , we all know that only russians are hackers with bad behaviours... funny how people have a so short memory .( blue pill, nsa , etc )...

Well , beside these useless remark, i won't see why w7 will be more the target of this subset of the population when we can read so many things on any web site talking about hacking activity like bleedingc and honestly, i do not think it happen on w7 but again , just my point of view .

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

POPCNT isn't just an arbitrary check on these systems but actually a technical requirement due to compiler settings used to build the system binaries. If a CPU doesn't have this instruction then it will raise an illegal instruction exception which in the kernel means the system halts.

In Linux this is equivalent to x86-64-v2, and some distros have toyed with an x86-64-v3 build which requires AVX2.

Not on the actual w11 release but may be some futur update will requiere this kind of instructions.
I just hope for people , that theses kind of update won't be applyed on their os if they are not supported by their cpu ( check can be done during msi install ) else the situation could be very tricky ...
Anyway the trend is againts ms unfortunately and it's just a matter of time and bad decisions to see it going down more quickly than theses last 10 years.
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide/#monthly-201501-202403

[MonkehMaster]

Ursprungligen skrivet av BionicSeaSerpent:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Komarimaru:

Yes, and guess what? By the time that Valve drops Windows 10 support? If you're on hardware from pre 2008? Guess what? You weren't playing any games or buying anything to begin with.

hell you ain't playing ♥♥♥♥ with a 2012 computer in general.

wrong actually, you can play tons of stuff on pc's/laptops 2012 and lower, not including running emulators and/or older titles.

there are plenty of softwares, which include games, that dont take much of any computing power to play them.

that being said, there are plenty (actually... tons) of things one can do with these old laptops/pc's.

[MonkehMaster]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

well i doubt many people are running pc's that old as a daily (anything only supporting up to 4.1).

that being said, microsoft hasnt even pushed that update out yet and we already have bypasses for that nonsense "check" for 4.2 or 4.2a, so that isnt going to be an issue for anyone wanting to use those old pc's.

POPCNT isn't just an arbitrary check on these systems but actually a technical requirement due to compiler settings used to build the system binaries. If a CPU doesn't have this instruction then it will raise an illegal instruction exception which in the kernel means the system halts.

In Linux this is equivalent to x86-64-v2, and some distros have toyed with an x86-64-v3 build which requires AVX2.

i didnt say popcnt is a check, its a check that blocks cpu's that dont have popcnt and bypassing that check, isnt going to be hard to do, if someone wanted.

as for popcnt... well its easy enough to point instructions to another set of instructions, instead of using a specific set of instructions....

kinda like how microsoft has been doing this whole time with the instruction sets, cause popcnt is nothing new.

[Crazy Tiger]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

Ursprungligen skrivet av BionicSeaSerpent:

hell you ain't playing ♥♥♥♥ with a 2012 computer in general.

wrong actually, you can play tons of stuff on pc's/laptops 2012 and lower, not including running emulators and/or older titles.

there are plenty of softwares, which include games, that dont take much of any computing power to play them.

that being said, there are plenty (actually... tons) of things one can do with these old laptops/pc's.

I still have an old Tosbiba laptop from the late 90s with Win 98SE on it. It's currently somewhere in the attic due to moving houses a while ago, but It's one of my go to devices for some of my older disc or floppy based games that look less nice on todays monitors.

Also still use it connected to my old Technics keyboard (as in music instrument) for music writing purposes. Well, once I set everything back up, that is.

Absolutely agreed, plenty of things people can do with old computers.

[CJM]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

that being said, there are plenty (actually... tons) of things one can do with these old laptops/pc's.

I uninstalled Office 2019 from my 2009 Dell, because there is little point in "office work" on a machine with no security updates, I could use that license elswhere. Don't have much need of an office suite for offline "typewriter" use cases.

I do still see a use for the machine as an XBox Gamepass Cloud subscription. It doesn't have a full DirectX 11 GPU, so I can't run GeForce Now, but Gamepass should work. Multicore CPU with 4GB of RAM meets the requirements.

Like Microsoft Office, the XBox Gamepass needs a Microsoft Account (MSA). Those MSA things have an annoying predilection towards worming their way up to admin privileges, and taking control over the entire system.

[MonkehMaster]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crazy Tiger:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

wrong actually, you can play tons of stuff on pc's/laptops 2012 and lower, not including running emulators and/or older titles.

there are plenty of softwares, which include games, that dont take much of any computing power to play them.

that being said, there are plenty (actually... tons) of things one can do with these old laptops/pc's.

I still have an old Tosbiba laptop from the late 90s with Win 98SE on it. It's currently somewhere in the attic due to moving houses a while ago, but It's one of my go to devices for some of my older disc or floppy based games that look less nice on todays monitors.

Also still use it connected to my old Technics keyboard (as in music instrument) for music writing purposes.

Absolutely agreed, plenty of things people can do with old computers.

hmm last laptop i had win 98se on was an old compact laptop, was called compact presario (dont remember the model number) but it was a decent laptop back then, sadly that died and i scrapped it a very long time ago, but thinking about it now, i should have kept and fixed it.

thing had removable drives and everything, was cool piece of tech for being that old...

edit: i think it was an LTE 5100

[MonkehMaster]

Ursprungligen skrivet av CJM:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

that being said, there are plenty (actually... tons) of things one can do with these old laptops/pc's.

I uninstalled Office 2019 from my 2009 Dell, because there is little point in "office work" on a machine with no security updates, I could use that license elswhere. Don't have much need of an office suite for offline "typewriter" use cases.

I do still see a use for the machine as an XBox Gamepass Cloud subscription. It doesn't have a full DirectX 11 GPU, so I can't run GeForce Now, but Gamepass should work. Multicore CPU with 4GB of RAM meets the requirements.

Like Microsoft Office, the XBox Gamepass needs a Microsoft Account (MSA). Those MSA things have an annoying predilection towards worming their way up to admin privileges, and taking control over the entire system.

ya and if really needed/wanted, im sure you can find stuff to upgrade it for dirt cheap...

heck a sata ssd with adapter connection would help quite a bit.

some laptop boards also support daughter board and allowed you to install msata drives as well, among other obscure things.

for example my old inspiron 15r se, was able to upgrade the daughter board and allowed an msata slot right underneath the wifi card (underside of daughter board).

[Crashed]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

POPCNT isn't just an arbitrary check on these systems but actually a technical requirement due to compiler settings used to build the system binaries. If a CPU doesn't have this instruction then it will raise an illegal instruction exception which in the kernel means the system halts.

In Linux this is equivalent to x86-64-v2, and some distros have toyed with an x86-64-v3 build which requires AVX2.

i didnt say popcnt is a check, its a check that blocks cpu's that dont have popcnt and bypassing that check, isnt going to be hard to do, if someone wanted.

as for popcnt... well its easy enough to point instructions to another set of instructions, instead of using a specific set of instructions....

kinda like how microsoft has been doing this whole time with the instruction sets, cause popcnt is nothing new.

The reason "bypassing" it is so difficult is that the code would have to be redone to not use the opcode. Same reason SSE2 became a minimum from Windows 8 to Windows 11 23H2.

[MonkehMaster]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

i didnt say popcnt is a check, its a check that blocks cpu's that dont have popcnt and bypassing that check, isnt going to be hard to do, if someone wanted.

as for popcnt... well its easy enough to point instructions to another set of instructions, instead of using a specific set of instructions....

kinda like how microsoft has been doing this whole time with the instruction sets, cause popcnt is nothing new.

The reason "bypassing" it is so difficult is that the code would have to be redone to not use the opcode. Same reason SSE2 became a minimum from Windows 8 to Windows 11 23H2.

hard, but not impossible and some are already working on a bypass for it.

[bidulless]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MonkehMaster:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Crashed:

The reason "bypassing" it is so difficult is that the code would have to be redone to not use the opcode. Same reason SSE2 became a minimum from Windows 8 to Windows 11 23H2.

hard, but not impossible and some are already working on a bypass for it.

hello
Are you talking about that ?
https://github.com/ogurets/popcnt_emulator
it seems working for one exe at a time but when a full patch will be compiled using popcnt, it will need to be patched on "cascade" or on the fly.
Surelly not impossible but surelly need a lot of work
https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/popcnt