When Valve stops supporting WIndows 10, it'll be interesting community response to it.

[WolfEisberg]

My low end gaming laptop cannot upgrade to Windows 11 at all. While the CPU does support TPM, the bios/motherboard do not, which means there is no way for me to upgrade to Windows 11 on this laptop.

Previously when Valve stopped support of an OS people could just upgrade their OS since the system requirements for the upgraded OS were typically the same as the system requirements for the previous windows version. The same cannot be said about WIndows 11 since it requires the computer to support TPM.

This means for me when Steam no longer works on Windows 10, if I want to continue to play Steam games on a laptop my options will be:

1- Get a new laptop
2- Not play Steam games
3- change to linux

Now personally, option 1 isn't going to happen because I rarely play games on this laptop anyways. So that leaves option 2 and 3. Changing to Linux wouldn't be a big deal because 99% of the use of this laptop is on web browser anyways.

But how this would personally affect me isn't the point anyways. But the community response will be interesting.

There will be people who cannot upgrade to WIndows 11, and they'll have legitimate reasons why which is the lack of TPM support on their PC. Telling people to upgrade to Window 11 won't be a valid suggestion.

Moving to Linux has it's draw backs because it is not as normal user friendly as Windows is, and finding help with various problems that will happen often leads to people telling you to use command line to fix the issue, which often does not come with good instructions on how to do that. So it'll be understandable why people wouldn't want to move to Linux either.

So the response will be very interesting, it won't be the same as it was for Windows 7 purely because of the TPM requirement for WIndows 11.

[bidulless]

Nguyên văn bởi m662:

And yes you can also install a GUI on this. It is not meant as a full OS replacement there are limitations (though you can work around most if you have the knowledge and licenses) It is simply to demonstrate there is no lock-in. Microsoft needs Linux and developers in it half there entire infrastructure if not more depends on it they would actively cripple themselves.

hello

Good remark and demo , thx again for linking that ( wsl + video ).

[Crashed]

Nguyên văn bởi ragefifty50:

Nguyên văn bởi Crashed:

Every CPU since the 6th-7th Gen Intel has had a built in TPM. I only learned about mine after I plugged in a discrete TPM. Likely motherboards still have the socket for (a) legacy support so you can put in a TPM 1.2 chip, or for compliance with specific IT department policies that for whatever reason require a dedicated chip.

mb 8th/9th gen tpm2.0 socket was available.. but the chip wasnt installed...
i remember i was going to get a tpm.2 chip and it was around $70aus and thats when
i found i could do the bios update instead..

I'm not talking about the socket but instead the TPM built-in to the platform itself. In the BIOS it is called Intel Platform Trust Technology or PTT. In fact if you turn on PTT it will override any TPM chip installed in the socket.

AMD platforms this new have an equivalent technology called fTPM.

[BionicSeaSerpent]

Nguyên văn bởi Lystent:

Nguyên văn bởi Buckles:

I can't wait for them to drop Windows 10 cuz I'm just going to go around the forums all day everyday insulting and making fun of and not empathizing or sympathizing with all of you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who made fun of me for still using Windows 7.

I swear to God 90% of the reason why I ended up not upgrading to Windows 10 was because of how horrible you all were treating me for still wanting to use Windows 7.

I updated to 10 and got similar treatment for being critical of it. Hater/fanboy "swarms" seem pretty typical for human behavior.

i mean to be fair if you are gonna use windows 7 15 years after its been release you are gonna be pointed at and laughed at because you are still using an OS that is so old that no 7th grader wouldn't of ever used or known about that is about as good at holding back hackers as a mesh fence is holding back rain. its useless. i have no clue why people defend this turd with their lives but i guess cults exist. i just wish these people would see that Windows has declined ever since XP and would move on to an OS that doesn't suck like, anything not Mac, Windows or Ubuntu based linux distros

[bidulless]

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

i mean to be fair if you are gonna use windows 7 15 years after its been release you are gonna be pointed at and laughed at because you are still using an OS that is so old that no 7th grader wouldn't of ever used or known about that is about as good at holding back hackers as a mesh fence is holding back rain. its useless. i have no clue why people defend this turd with their lives but i guess cults exist. i just wish these people would see that Windows has declined ever since XP and would move on to an OS that doesn't suck like, anything not Mac, Windows or Ubuntu based linux distros

Hello

Honestly i do not think we need to discuss that in this thread , it's surelly not the subject our OP want to talk about and i personally think there are other threads for that point and also because at first glance , it our business and surelly not yours xd

[BionicSeaSerpent]

Nguyên văn bởi m662:

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

no, its not misinformation. secure boot is there to make running linux harder yes it can be turned off but its another one of those MS forced bios features

Absolute nonsense.

Microsoft has investments in Linux in the form of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) and other services as well as there own implementations in the form of CBL-Mariner They do not want to limit it you can simply leave secure boot on you do need to use a private verification key but the intention of secure boot is purely for rootkit defense and other prevention's.

They have scummy stuff like requiring a Microsoft account for W11 even when you are not connected to the internet but have a network capable card detected or the annoyance with having to setup your browser file extensions to another browser manually per protocol but secure boot is not one of those things.

To put a end to that debate here is the official debian response.
https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot

What is UEFI Secure Boot NOT?
UEFI Secure Boot is not an attempt by Microsoft to lock Linux out of the PC market here; SB is a security measure to protect against malware during early system boot. Microsoft act as a Certification Authority (CA) for SB, and they will sign programs on behalf of other trusted organisations so that their programs will also run. There are certain identification requirements that organisations have to meet here, and code has to be audited for safety. But these are not too difficult to achieve.

SB is also not meant to lock users out of controlling their own systems. Users can enroll extra keys into the system, allowing them to sign programs for their own systems. Many SB-enabled systems also allow users to remove the platform-provided keys altogether, forcing the firmware to only trust user-signed binaries.

And here is the Redhat article
https://access.redhat.com/articles/5254641

Now if you still believe that Microsoft did this intentional you also have to assume that Linux distributions have done this intentional.

The truth of the matter is that it is a UEFI consortium invention.
And guess what both Microsoft and the Linux Foundation as well as couple hundred big tech companies are member of that
https://uefi.org/members

for the average consumer having secure boot enabled by default is a deterrant from running linux. because they have to go into the BIOS to disable it and the average consumer finds the bios scary, thats fact. so not only do you have to disable something in the BIOS to even begin trying linux. you have to avoid the garbage thats most popular. you have choose a desktop that wont suck (you basically just stay away from Ubuntu based distros or anything with the GNOME Desktop and you're fine, though first times aren't gonna know that. so they'll touch ubuntu and GNOME anyway) and as much as i wish people would. people are lazy and do not want to do all this one time stuff to run linux. then they even refuse to because they see it as inferior when its not.

[Lystent]

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

Nguyên văn bởi Lystent:

I updated to 10 and got similar treatment for being critical of it. Hater/fanboy "swarms" seem pretty typical for human behavior.

i mean to be fair if you are gonna use windows 7 15 years after its been release you are gonna be pointed at and laughed at because you are still using an OS that is....

I didn't get the before mentioned "treatment" because i was using 7, I got the before mentioned "treatment" because I had criticisms about 10.

As I already stated, I was using 10 at the time.

[BionicSeaSerpent]

Nguyên văn bởi Lystent:

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

i mean to be fair if you are gonna use windows 7 15 years after its been release you are gonna be pointed at and laughed at because you are still using an OS that is....

I didn't get the before mentioned "treatment" because i was using 7, I got the before mentioned "treatment" because I had criticisms about 10.

As I already stated, I was using 10 at the time.

i'm just talking about the first persons argument about windows 7 and how they are mad they got clowned for using something older than the community of people playing Fortnite Battle Royale, i could tell you were on 10, because you clearly have some common sense in you, unlike the complainer. also what kind of logic is this "i'll be here to laugh at the people crying over 10" when support for their OS is as dead as a Dodo and had been for 10+ years. dunno about you chief but that doesn't add up to me.

and yeah, people are brutal when you criticize something garbage they defend with their lives. the windows crowd in general is just rabbid. just gets worse when you go into the more niche communities that hang onto the titanic.

[Crashed]

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

Nguyên văn bởi m662:

Absolute nonsense.

Microsoft has investments in Linux in the form of Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) and other services as well as there own implementations in the form of CBL-Mariner They do not want to limit it you can simply leave secure boot on you do need to use a private verification key but the intention of secure boot is purely for rootkit defense and other prevention's.

They have scummy stuff like requiring a Microsoft account for W11 even when you are not connected to the internet but have a network capable card detected or the annoyance with having to setup your browser file extensions to another browser manually per protocol but secure boot is not one of those things.

To put a end to that debate here is the official debian response.
https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot


And here is the Redhat article
https://access.redhat.com/articles/5254641

Now if you still believe that Microsoft did this intentional you also have to assume that Linux distributions have done this intentional.

The truth of the matter is that it is a UEFI consortium invention.
And guess what both Microsoft and the Linux Foundation as well as couple hundred big tech companies are member of that
https://uefi.org/members

for the average consumer having secure boot enabled by default is a deterrant from running linux. because they have to go into the BIOS to disable it and the average consumer finds the bios scary, thats fact. so not only do you have to disable something in the BIOS to even begin trying linux. you have to avoid the garbage thats most popular. you have choose a desktop that wont suck (you basically just stay away from Ubuntu based distros or anything with the GNOME Desktop and you're fine, though first times aren't gonna know that. so they'll touch ubuntu and GNOME anyway) and as much as i wish people would. people are lazy and do not want to do all this one time stuff to run linux. then they even refuse to because they see it as inferior when its not.

I can just flash a USB of Ubuntu with Rufus and it boots fine with Secure Boot on. Non-CSM is probably the more confusing thing.

[MonkehMaster]

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

Nguyên văn bởi Lystent:

I updated to 10 and got similar treatment for being critical of it. Hater/fanboy "swarms" seem pretty typical for human behavior.

i mean to be fair if you are gonna use windows 7 15 years after its been release you are gonna be pointed at and laughed at because you are still using an OS that is so old that no 7th grader wouldn't of ever used or known about that is about as good at holding back hackers as a mesh fence is holding back rain. its useless. i have no clue why people defend this turd with their lives but i guess cults exist. i just wish these people would see that Windows has declined ever since XP and would move on to an OS that doesn't suck like, anything not Mac, Windows or Ubuntu based linux distros

who cares what 7th graders have used or havent used.

just because a person hasnt used something and it happens to be old, doesnt give any right to "point and laugh".

edit: or according to your other comment... "fortnight players" as if they have any room to criticize people for their use of an OS.

sounds very immature.

[Lystent]

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

...because you clearly have some common sense in you...

I feel that if I were smart, I'd get another C drive for my tower, toss some version of Linux onto it (after some much needed research), and buy games from GOG for it.

But here I am, live service launcher with mandatory software updates all around the board.

[BionicSeaSerpent]

Nguyên văn bởi MonkehMaster:

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

i mean to be fair if you are gonna use windows 7 15 years after its been release you are gonna be pointed at and laughed at because you are still using an OS that is so old that no 7th grader wouldn't of ever used or known about that is about as good at holding back hackers as a mesh fence is holding back rain. its useless. i have no clue why people defend this turd with their lives but i guess cults exist. i just wish these people would see that Windows has declined ever since XP and would move on to an OS that doesn't suck like, anything not Mac, Windows or Ubuntu based linux distros

who cares what 7th graders have used or havent used.

just because a person hasnt used something and it happens to be old, doesnt give any right to "point and laugh".

edit: or according to your other comment... "fortnight players" as if they have any room to criticize people for their use of an OS.

sounds very immature.

i didn't say that using something old means that people can point and laugh. i'm on 7 era hardware. the problem is that you are talking about SOFTWARE. in which if you are going to do something as stupid as run 15 year old operating systems. you should EXPECT to be clowned on and told to grow up and move on. that's not negotiable, that's a fact. because nobody with a brain would use such an insecure OS in modern day, connected to the modern internet where the fact is, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ six ways from Sunday whenever you open your browser because hackers will hack and scammers will scam. and you are literally an easy target regardless of what you think you know. it would be better if you yourself did research. instead of pointlessly shilling windows 7 for literally ZERO reason other than Nostalgia.

[BionicSeaSerpent]

Nguyên văn bởi Lystent:

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

...because you clearly have some common sense in you...

I feel that if I were smart, I'd get another C drive for my tower, toss some version of Linux onto it (after some much needed research), and buy games from GOG for it.

But here I am, live service launcher with mandatory software updates all around the board.

i mean, its just another drive, not a "C Drive" that's a relic from the DOS Era where two floppy drives took up the A and B letters for the first two drives, since the first PCs only ever had Floppy drives and anything else was a bunch of add in cards. and to note, is not a technical term. the Unix/POSIX Compliant equal would be sda for SATA/PATA Drives and nvme1 for well. NVMEs.
either way. unless your boot drive is a 256GB drive or 128. having a linux partition on your main drive to boot linux is a far easier method than having a separate drive, because windows will see that drive and call it an unformatted drive, and then you can completely ♥♥♥♥ up your computer doing that. it will not see a linux partition however.

[MonkehMaster]

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

Nguyên văn bởi MonkehMaster:

who cares what 7th graders have used or havent used.

just because a person hasnt used something and it happens to be old, doesnt give any right to "point and laugh".

edit: or according to your other comment... "fortnight players" as if they have any room to criticize people for their use of an OS.

sounds very immature.

i didn't say that using something old means that people can point and laugh. i'm on 7 era hardware. the problem is that you are talking about SOFTWARE. in which if you are going to do something as stupid as run 15 year old operating systems. you should EXPECT to be clowned on and told to grow up and move on. that's not negotiable, that's a fact. because nobody with a brain would use such an insecure OS in modern day, connected to the modern internet where the fact is, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ six ways from Sunday whenever you open your browser because hackers will hack and scammers will scam. and you are literally an easy target regardless of what you think you know. it would be better if you yourself did research. instead of pointlessly shilling windows 7 for literally ZERO reason other than Nostalgia.

"clowned on and told to grow up" because you are using something old.....

where did i "pointlessly shill windows 7"?

i run win 11 and win 7 both pro.

as for your nonsense about getting hacked, scammers, ect...

first off, scammer have zero to do with running old OS's a scammer can scam you from and on any OS...

secondly, opening your browser has never and will never get you hacked or virus/malware/ect.. scaremongering doesnt work, the only way you are going to get hacked, viruses/malware/ect... is by going to bad sites, clicking bad links, downloading stuff, or opening random emails and popups.

some of which are blocked and secured by browsers and your OS, while others have zero to do with an OS, but more to do with people who have no clue how to surf the web and/or have little to no experience dealing with the internet.

i have been using the internet since it was made public, didnt get any viruses/malware/ect.. or hacked or scammed then and likely wont now either, cause the difference between me and others, is i know what im doing and i practice safe web browsing.

anywho, win 7 is about as secure as win 10 and 11, ie... its windows so its not as secure as everyone claims.

that being said, instead of worrying about what OS others use and wasting time "pointing and laughing" as you mentioned, those same people could go on about their day doing something more productive (some food for thought).

[MonkehMaster]

Nguyên văn bởi Lystent:

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

...because you clearly have some common sense in you...

I feel that if I were smart, I'd get another C drive for my tower, toss some version of Linux onto it (after some much needed research), and buy games from GOG for it.

But here I am, live service launcher with mandatory software updates all around the board.

ya, likely what i will do with steam OS 3 when it gets released (i want to see how well it runs, see the games list and also compare it to the old version), installing it on its own drive, as i already have win 7 pro and win 11 pro on my C drive.

[BionicSeaSerpent]

Nguyên văn bởi MonkehMaster:

Nguyên văn bởi BionicSeaSerpent:

i didn't say that using something old means that people can point and laugh. i'm on 7 era hardware. the problem is that you are talking about SOFTWARE. in which if you are going to do something as stupid as run 15 year old operating systems. you should EXPECT to be clowned on and told to grow up and move on. that's not negotiable, that's a fact. because nobody with a brain would use such an insecure OS in modern day, connected to the modern internet where the fact is, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥ six ways from Sunday whenever you open your browser because hackers will hack and scammers will scam. and you are literally an easy target regardless of what you think you know. it would be better if you yourself did research. instead of pointlessly shilling windows 7 for literally ZERO reason other than Nostalgia.

"clowned on and told to grow up" because you are using something old.....

where did i "pointlessly shill windows 7"?

i run win 11 and win 7 both pro.

as for your nonsense about getting hacked, scammers, ect...

first off, scammer have zero to do with running old OS's a scammer can scam you from and on any OS...

secondly, opening your browser has never and will never get you hacked or virus/malware/ect.. scaremongering doesnt work, the only way you are going to get hacked, viruses/malware/ect... is by going to bad sites, clicking bad links, downloading stuff, or opening random emails and popups.

some of which are blocked and secured by browsers and your OS, while others have zero to do with an OS, but more to do with people who have no clue how to surf the web and/or have little to no experience dealing with the internet.

i have been using the internet since it was made public, didnt get any viruses/malware/ect.. or hacked or scammed then and likely wont now either, cause the difference between me and others, is i know what im doing and i practice safe web browsing.

anywho, win 7 is about as secure as win 10 and 11, ie... its windows so its not as secure as everyone claims.

that being said, instead of worrying about what SD others use and wasting time "pointing and laughing" as you mentioned, those same people could go on about their day doing something more productive.

oh how naive you are. there are literal ways you can get hacked just opening a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ email. you cannot pretend like you will never get hacked without actually getting hacked at least once. you may think you have safe practices, but then they do not protect you. you have nothing but either an ego to try get back together or data you gotta get back.

and the fact that 7S SUPPORT ENDED 5 YEARS AGO DOESN'T HELP YOU KEEP SAFE FROM KERNEL LEVEL BACKDOORS. if you actually understood security, you would understand how 7 is terrible to use in modern day. and that lack of support actually harms you. its not more secure, you are never safe on windows 7 no matter what stops you try pull in any way.

this is called the Dunning Krueger effect. its when people think their knowledge if a certain topic is far more than it actually is. and yours is desktop security. because you clearly have no idea where and when viruses actually attack and what you can do to catch them in the first place. let alone you do not understand how the lack of security updates removes any security that you could have gotten if you moved to a newer OS.

just claiming that you have windows 11 is not enough, you actually have to have the OS running on your computer to reap any security benefits. this is common knowledge. i seriously don't get why an argument has to be made for people to be told basic knowledge, only for them to und up essentially saying "shut the ♥♥♥♥ up, you know nothing about security, 7 is fine"

TLDR: if you researched and knew about all the background shenanigans they do with Cookies and other backend data things you'd know that combined with 7s lack of security updates for the past 5 years, you're getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sixty ways from sunday.