My issues with Valve refusing any support for legacy operating systems.

[KingKrouch]

To people just reading the title of the post and making broad assumptions, hear me out before you say something entirely in bad faith and braindead in the comments in per-typical Steam forum user fashion:

In one hand, I don't get why people are trying to run more recent games on Windows 7. It's stupid to be using Windows 7 for modern games when modern GPUs don't even support W7 anymore, and the last Radeon cards to officially support it was the 6900XT. You can't even use USB devices on more recent motherboards without modified installer images for W7, and even then stuff like Ethernet will require a older USB ethernet adapter to function.

For modern games though, your only real options are Windows 11 or Linux (Which while having some quirks is almost in a state where it's easier to use than W11), but it's absolutely crazy how predatory companies have been being regarding digital stuff. Before any of the LimitedRunGames and PheonixResale fanboys virtue signal about physical copies while coping over the fact that they threw their money into a void buying a GameCube era game and Nintendo doesn't see any of that money still, this is not about you, back off.

But it's crazy how Microsoft can prevent people from downloading older versions of games they legally bought on the Xbox 360 (I.E: Skullgirls), Sony can pull purchases of movies that people already bought, and Nintendo does what they do about the eShop, companies can completely alter game content post-launch (I.E: Superhot VR) with absolutely zero way to keep on your current copy without either using SteamCMD or resorting to piracy. Valve completely disabled the option to disable game updates. Valve doing this stuff too and outright endorsing game publishers and developers to do this crap too paints a very bad picture and is terrible optics as they are generally considered one of the more pro-consumer of the bunch. People bring up consoles discontinuing online services as a bad thing, but excuse Valve locking people out of their games?

I personally wish Valve would have a lite Steam client with the Chromium stuff stripped out that could run on legacy operating systems, simply for older games that don't work right under modern Windows or even Proton. I'm sure that most people on those kinds of setups would use a mobile device or something to buy Steam games from instead of an insecure operating system. There's plenty of places and hardware that can't run modern versions of Windows, even if the hardware itself is fine enough for playing old games. Hell, even having a webpage to grab DRM free versions of older games past a certain date would be nice, as Valve themselves tried to say that if Steam ever went down that users would still have a way to download their games. These same game publishers would be pissed either way. So what's the excuse?

Having to consult the PCGaming Wiki for older games to fix general issues, is such a pain in the ass for older games sometimes, and I've been working to put together a GPU passthrough VirtIO VMs running Windows 98 SE and XP with a GeForce 6 series GPU and a Sound Blaster card from that era for that reason. The Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver is something that doesn't really work right without tweaks for modern operating systems that is still sold as-is on Steam. Battlefield 2 has strange compatibility issues with Proton if you want working spatial audio. Valve's own games have completely busted spatial audio on modern builds and operating systems. Windows Compatibility Mode is far from perfect, even if software compatibility on Windows goes pretty far into the past (setting aside 16-bit applications). Plenty of older games don't have the liberty of official patches to fix issues.

Be better than this Valve. Your selective quality control almost always targeting anime games that still got ESRB ratings just fine (cope australians and terminally online twitter/reddit marxists), and your lack of quality control on anything else (Like allowing constantly busted PC ports or scams like The Day Before) on your store is bad enough.

[KingKrouch]

引用自 Seraphita：

It's because it's anti-valve propaganda. Like yes, we should not blindly defend rich corps but we must still get facts straight. This is why people repeat "Windows 7 is dead." because it happened at the hand of microsoft. Valve is only keeping up with OS so Win10 and 11.

You're making it out like I'm a paid shill by Uncle Timmy from Epic Games, when I'm not. lol. There's plenty of issues with them and how they refuse to actually compete on features and quality of service, but that doesn't negate the bad things that Valve can do, and how they could be better. They have the ability to back up and restore your own games to/from physical media or drive directories (yes, that's still a feature), but that has some issues.

Just look at the paid mods fiasco.

Nobody's denying that Windows 7 or even XP are dead, and that wasn't my argument. Web browsers barely support 7 anymore and XP web browsing is a painful experience to say the least. Nobody sane would use it for every day tasks. They just have a ton of older games that haven't been updated and have minimum system requirements that aren't accurate anymore. I was purely going at it from the games standpoint.

[KingKrouch]

引用自 Paratech2008：

Apple dropped all 32 bit support. If Apple can do that what can't Microsoft and Valve do?

They did, but nothing's stopping you from buying an iPhone 5C today and still downloading legacy games from the app store, because they haven't taken the infrastructure for it down yet. Granted, plenty of older apps won't work anymore (mainly social media sites that have been updated), but this is the only way you're gonna play loads of iOS games that would otherwise be completely lost to time unless the community works towards emulation efforts.

Running older games on modern Windows or Linux can effectively be similar to how bad some early emulators can be. Spec Ops The Line's native Linux port is a stuttery mess with graphical bugs native on PC or the Steam Deck, so you have to use the Windows build on Proton. Backwards Compatibility is not a definite. And neither is expecting software developers to update their games perpetually. In that case, it's up to the platform holder to add fail-safes in place.

If Valve thought that fail-safes weren't needed, they wouldn't do Steam Deck certifications or labeling on what games support PlayStation controllers.

[76561199223588030]

引用自 miakisfan：

I honestly don't really have a problem with people wanting to continue running Windows 7. If I loved Windows 7 when I had it I likely would have kept using it as well.

My issue is with them thinking everything else should continue supporting it as if nothing has changed and other OSes haven't come out since. It is a business decision by Steam and others ... one that like those people who dislike Denuvo would likely be the first on board to change if they were wearing those very same business shoes.

The world doesn't revolve around Windows 7 or any other OS for that matter. Time for them to grow up and realize they are caught up in the changing times.

I'm technologically retarded. But even I know that all the so called 'modern' features of windows 10 and 11 can easily be backported to windows 7. It's the same kernel isn't it? Vista, 7, 8/8/1, 10 and 11 are all using versions of windows kernel 6.X. Windows 10 and 11 just have their kernals renamed to kernel number 10 and 11 respectively(but no respect for windows 10 or 11). But microsoft refuses to support windows Vista, 7 and 8. Because they want to force everyone to use their horrible windows 10 and 11.

Seriously why is window 10 so awful? It's like it was designed by lesser men, from a third world ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, who have no idea how to act or behave in the modern world. Nor how to develop a good piece of software. So they set about to destroy what came before, the legacy of literal gods in human form. It's just like those megalithic monuments that were being plundered for their stone work and masonry, by the 'locals' who were wholly and completely unable to recreate the work and majesty of the monuments and of the monuments original creators, so out of petty jealously spite and rage, the 'new arrivals' set about debasing and destroying the work of gods.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 KingKrouch：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Yikes, why do they always resort to insults?

First the false claims of jumping through hoops to get older games to work, when in reality it takes seconds. I've even shown how to run 16bit era games on Windows 10 and 11, with zero issues.

Everything that worked on Windows 7, I can run on 10 and 11. Everything that worked on XP, I can run on 10 and 11 but stick to my Retro Rig due to 4:3 ratio for a lot of them. Same for my Windows 3.X and DOS games, Retro rig again mostly due to 4:3 and prefer native CRT output, but can easily run on Windows 10 and 11.

I've shown how to run Securerom and Safedisc games on Windows 10 and 11, if want to risk it. Playing Heavy Metal FAKK2 even to prove it.

These false claims of games not working, is just ignorance. These claims of demanding a LIVE SERVICE PLATFORM to support legacy Operating Systems, is laughable at best. No store does, EA tried and it was a failure their end to stopped it.

All platforms are dropping Windows 7 support, or already have begun to.

First off, you haven't listed any of those sources. You are making a broad assumption that if you're a YT content creator that people here are suddenly aware about what you've done.

NTVDM (that compatibility layer for 16-bit applications as you mentioned) has issues, this also doesn't take things like 3D acceleration into account. There's literally an entire video of someone spending days reverse engineering an installer for a game to get it running on modern Windows, and you're claiming that it's as easy as setting that up. Also, NTVDM is only supported on 32-Bit Windows. Running anything 16-Bit in WINE or Proton on Linux will just redirect it to DosBox or tell you to install it. NTVDMx64 is a fork of that for 64-Bit Windows, but then again, you're dealing with a third-party fix AND it only supports AdLib audio.

Plenty of older games don't work with modern resolutions unless you spend the time to hex edit the executable or download a mod, which in that case, the game is still busted on modern operating systems. Prepare to also do a dozen different per-application workarounds if the game doesn't play nice with your modern display or controllers either, which is more of an endorsement of the Steam Deck than anything. You basically need driver workarounds for certain games that don't scale properly or use disgusting crap like fullscreen exclusive mode which switches the display resolution to something it doesn't support. I don't even think that 640x480 or anything lower is properly recognized by Windows 11 as a valid screen resolutiona anymore.

Games for Windows Live stuff is completely busted, stuff with SecuROM, StarForce, and SafeDisk refuse to run on Windows 10 or 11 unless you disable core isolation and disable driver signing, which in that case leaves a huge security hole in your system. Weren't people just getting mad at the Naraka Bladepoint developers for suggesting people to disable system essential security features to get their anti-cheat working.

Most games with spatial audio just don't work properly on Windows 10/11 unless you use a modified version of OpenAL with HRTF support. You're objectively getting a worse experience compared to older hardware outside of faster framerates that likely are already higher than your screen's refresh rate anyways.

For an example, there's a PC port of Sonic Heroes, and yet most people don't want to mess with that, the separate modloader, noCD patches for the game, or the hell of setting up mods to make it run properly, when Dolphin is right there for the GC version that's way easier to set up. If you need to have forsight and days of research to fix a problem with an older game, chances are someone who isn't as inclined would think it's a waste of time.

I'm just saying that people completely gloss over the many problems with running older software on Windows, and just make the broad assumption that Windows is backwards compatible with all software when Microsoft has fired their QA team and the last time they actually put an effort into backwards compatibility (outside of just keeping old APIs and just creating new ones under Ex if they needed to fix an issue) was with Windows 95/98.

Granted, the mess of software compatibility isn't Valve's fault, but the way they're approaching the issue is just with pure apathy. Much like anything else outside of them working on a shiny new pet project (like their hardware efforts).

And if having to consult a community wiki (that most people probably won't know exists) every time I buy a new game or even an older game that's on sale is the outcome of modern gaming and this "all digital" future we are going towards, maybe I'd rather not be a part of gaming because of how bad it's gotten.

I posted in other threads, showing the game running, just fine. Everytime they made a claim a game wouldn't run.

E.I.
https://youtu.be/mpNVDnNqYRQ
Even with the Clan and Inner Sphere Mech Paks, and Mektek patches for better balance.

Sonic Heroes is due to SafeDisc, just enable it in Windows 10. Duh?! I already mentioned that in my post, way to go in not knowing why it wasn't running, bravo... You get nothing, since can't read.

And yes, you consult a wiki to keep gaming if want. This is due to users like yourself who don't know what they are doing, the fixes being rather simple too. Here's the best one as well.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

And yes, it shows the fixes for resolutions as well.

If you think 10 seconds of work to get a game to run well on modern hardware and OS is a bad thing, get off of PC gaming.

And if you knew anything, you'd know that Securerom and SAfeDisc were removed from core OS features due to the malware exploits. By all means enable it if you want, you're the one taking the risk. Starforce games can rot, imho, I never installed them even on 7.

[KingKrouch]

引用自 Komarimaru：

I posted in other threads, showing the game running, just fine. Everytime they made a claim a game wouldn't run.

E.I.
https://youtu.be/mpNVDnNqYRQ
Even with the Clan and Inner Sphere Mech Paks, and Mektek patches for better balance.

You are acting like people constantly browse forum posts on here when it's not explicitly a workaround or awareness thread.

引用自 Komarimaru：

Sonic Heroes is due to SafeDisc, just enable it in Windows 10. Duh?! I already mentioned that in my post, way to go in not knowing why it wasn't running, bravo... You get nothing, since can't read.

No, even with SafeDisc accounted for, the game doesn't work with anything over 1024x768, doesn't work with any modern controllers, and has dodgy rendering issues due to being an ancient DirectX 8 game. I've seen some DX9 games that have rendering issues on certain NVIDIA and AMD cards unless you install DXVK manually. In the case of D3D8 games, you'd need D3D8to9 paired with DXVK. In the case of Sonic Heroes, you need to have something called the Reloaded modloader, which works like Flawless Widescreen in the sense that you need it running in the background at all times, or to launch the game through the modloader. This completely fails to take Proton support (through Linux) in mind, as you more often than not have to rely on Steam's launch function to work properly as you can't launch executables directly without something like ProtonTricks. There's no "way" you can enable SafeDisc as you say, it's a driver that won't run without disabling system security features.

引用自 Komarimaru：

And yes, you consult a wiki to keep gaming if want. This is due to users like yourself who don't know what they are doing, the fixes being rather simple too. Here's the best one as well.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

And yes, it shows the fixes for resolutions as well.

Yes, I know about the PCGaming Wiki BECAUSE I've done contribution work and have worked on mods and fixes for existing games. Still doesn't negate the fact that every time I see a Reddit thread on a PC Gaming subreddit talk about undervalued resources, that almost always hits the top. If you took a shot of sake every time you've seen people personally ask and beg you for technical support outside of the PCGaming Wiki or even in DMs if you dare to say that you know a fair bit about computers or have made mods or fixes for games, you'd probably pass away from alcohol poisoning. I'm personally tired of having to fix other people's games free of charge and not get any financial or gratitude compensation for the massive amount of time and (sometimes) money I spend doing the work so others don't have to. People buy things expecting it to work usually, unless it's gaming where people will make a dozen mental gymnastics about it.

Also people fragmenting their mods into many dozen ones that conflict with each other instead of spending a small bit of time coordinating to just have one recommended thing are part of the problem. Just look at Final Fantasy 7 mods for example, the only way you're gonna have a good time playing that outside of the PS1 original.

引用自 Komarimaru：

If you think 10 seconds of work to get a game to run well on modern hardware and OS is a bad thing, get off of PC gaming.

Calling it just 10 seconds of work is extremely disingenuous. Steam takes longer than that just to launch the game nowadays. Sometimes, games refuse to launch unless you restart Steam.

Now according to this logic, you should tell console fanboys defending sloppy ports of games to stop PC Gaming, since their lack of standards is enigmatic of a larger problem. It's sad that expecting something that just works nowadays is treated with contempt. The last thing I want to do when playing a game anymore is debugging it and making fixes. Also modern console gaming sucks many magnitudes worse, but just like the Epic debate, that doesn't negate Steam's issues.

[KingKrouch]

Nevermind on the backup thing, it looks like Valve made the backup feature worse by not letting you choose the size of the backup chunks (I.E: 4.3GB if you're saving the backup to a DVD).

Another feature, just like music playback, completely ruined by the new Steam UI update lol.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 KingKrouch：

引用自 Komarimaru：

I posted in other threads, showing the game running, just fine. Everytime they made a claim a game wouldn't run.

E.I.
https://youtu.be/mpNVDnNqYRQ
Even with the Clan and Inner Sphere Mech Paks, and Mektek patches for better balance.

You are acting like people constantly browse forum posts on here when it's not explicitly a workaround or awareness thread.

引用自 Komarimaru：

Sonic Heroes is due to SafeDisc, just enable it in Windows 10. Duh?! I already mentioned that in my post, way to go in not knowing why it wasn't running, bravo... You get nothing, since can't read.

No, even with SafeDisc accounted for, the game doesn't work with anything over 1024x768, doesn't work with any modern controllers, and has dodgy rendering issues due to being an ancient DirectX 8 game. I've seen some DX9 games that have rendering issues on certain NVIDIA and AMD cards unless you install DXVK manually. In the case of D3D8 games, you'd need D3D8to9 paired with DXVK. In the case of Sonic Heroes, you need to have something called the Reloaded modloader, which works like Flawless Widescreen in the sense that you need it running in the background at all times, or to launch the game through the modloader. This completely fails to take Proton support (through Linux) in mind, as you more often than not have to rely on Steam's launch function to work properly as you can't launch executables directly without something like ProtonTricks. There's no "way" you can enable SafeDisc as you say, it's a driver that won't run without disabling system security features.

引用自 Komarimaru：

And yes, you consult a wiki to keep gaming if want. This is due to users like yourself who don't know what they are doing, the fixes being rather simple too. Here's the best one as well.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page

And yes, it shows the fixes for resolutions as well.

Yes, I know about the PCGaming Wiki BECAUSE I've done contribution work and have worked on mods and fixes for existing games. Still doesn't negate the fact that every time I see a Reddit thread on a PC Gaming subreddit talk about undervalued resources, that almost always hits the top. If you took a shot of sake every time you've seen people personally ask and beg you for technical support outside of the PCGaming Wiki or even in DMs if you dare to say that you know a fair bit about computers or have made mods or fixes for games, you'd probably pass away from alcohol poisoning. I'm personally tired of having to fix other people's games free of charge and not get any financial or gratitude compensation for the massive amount of time and (sometimes) money I spend doing the work so others don't have to. People buy things expecting it to work usually, unless it's gaming where people will make a dozen mental gymnastics about it.

Also people fragmenting their mods into many dozen ones that conflict with each other instead of spending a small bit of time coordinating to just have one recommended thing are part of the problem. Just look at Final Fantasy 7 mods for example, the only way you're gonna have a good time playing that outside of the PS1 original.

引用自 Komarimaru：

If you think 10 seconds of work to get a game to run well on modern hardware and OS is a bad thing, get off of PC gaming.

Calling it just 10 seconds of work is extremely disingenuous. Steam takes longer than that just to launch the game nowadays. Sometimes, games refuse to launch unless you restart Steam.

Now according to this logic, you should tell console fanboys defending sloppy ports of games to stop PC Gaming, since their lack of standards is enigmatic of a larger problem. It's sad that expecting something that just works nowadays is treated with contempt. The last thing I want to do when playing a game anymore is debugging it and making fixes.

One, it's a DX9 game, and I can run it just fine on my PC. I have it actually, want me to hook my external blu-ray drive up and record it running on Windows 10, within just 10 seconds of fixes? All ya need is the resolution fix on my end, easily done.

And I highly doubt you've contributed to PCgamingwiki. If you have, you can easily show the source, since it lists the sources of fixed shared on the site at the bottom of each page.

And if Steam takes longer then a second to launch one of your games, something is wrong your end... Never had to restart Steam to launch a single game either... Not even on my XP machine.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

引用自 KingKrouch：

Nevermind on the backup thing, it looks like Valve made the backup feature worse by not letting you choose the size of the backup chunks (I.E: 4.3GB if you're saving the backup to a DVD).

Another feature, just like music playback, completely ruined by the new Steam UI update lol.

They dropped the music player because no one used it. That's why it's only used for game soundtracks now. Foodbar2000 is superior to most any other music player in every way

[KingKrouch]

引用自 Komarimaru：

One, it's a DX9 game, and I can run it just fine on my PC. I have it actually, want me to hook my external blu-ray drive up and record it running on Windows 10, within just 10 seconds of fixes? All ya need is the resolution fix on my end, easily done.

And I highly doubt you've contributed to PCgamingwiki. If you have, you can easily show the source, since it lists the sources of fixed shared on the site at the bottom of each page.

And if Steam takes longer then a second to launch one of your games, something is wrong your end... Never had to restart Steam to launch a single game either... Not even on my XP machine.

Since you want to be a poser that has no clue what they're talking about so badly:
https://imgur.com/a/7roCSux
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Sonic_Heroes

Now actually read the wiki page and look at how long it is, and how many of those mods rely on Reloaded II AND hex editing. No sane person would go through that to play it on a modern PC setup when they could just play the GameCube version.

Secondly:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/User:KingKrouch

[Thermal Lance]

引用自 C²C^Guyver |NZB|：

引用自 KingKrouch：

Nevermind on the backup thing, it looks like Valve made the backup feature worse by not letting you choose the size of the backup chunks (I.E: 4.3GB if you're saving the backup to a DVD).

Another feature, just like music playback, completely ruined by the new Steam UI update lol.

They dropped the music player because no one used it. That's why it's only used for game soundtracks now. Foodbar 2000 is superior to most any other music player in every way

I still use Winamp.

I'll definately take a look at Foobar2000.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

引用自 BOTThermal Lance v1.0 RC2：

引用自 C²C^Guyver |NZB|：

They dropped the music player because no one used it. That's why it's only used for game soundtracks now. Foodbar 2000 is superior to most any other music player in every way

I still use Winamp.

I'll definately take a look at Foobar2000.

It's awesome and can be infuriating at the same time. It's very advanced and very powerful and you can make it look like pretty much anything. It plays pretty much every format out there as well.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 KingKrouch：

引用自 Komarimaru：

One, it's a DX9 game, and I can run it just fine on my PC. I have it actually, want me to hook my external blu-ray drive up and record it running on Windows 10, within just 10 seconds of fixes? All ya need is the resolution fix on my end, easily done.

And I highly doubt you've contributed to PCgamingwiki. If you have, you can easily show the source, since it lists the sources of fixed shared on the site at the bottom of each page.

And if Steam takes longer then a second to launch one of your games, something is wrong your end... Never had to restart Steam to launch a single game either... Not even on my XP machine.

Since you want to be a poser that has no clue what they're talking about so badly:
https://imgur.com/a/7roCSux
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Sonic_Heroes

Now actually read the wiki page and look at how long it is, and how many of those mods rely on Reloaded II AND hex editing. No sane person would go through that to play it on a modern PC setup when they could just play the GameCube version.

Secondly:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/User:KingKrouch

Hey, thanks. Looks like you didn't submit any fixes. All you've done is verify something working. Thus, you didn't contribute anything to the wiki. You can tell, since it says that. Only on recent games too, LOL

Anyone, can verify if a fix works. That's not a contribution, if anything, spam lol. So, congrats I guess?

And hey, still want that video? Want me to upload it tonight before bed, or in the morning before work? Since working just fine my end.

Well, looks like in the morning before work. Even the crappy controller scheme works, no analog just like Sonic DX, barf.

[Zero]

Windows 11 is worse than 10 in every conceivable way. It doesn't even have any core changes that require a switch from 10 to 11, like 7 did. Just like 8 and 8.1, people can safely ignore 11 and wait for a better OS while continuing to use 10.

[KingKrouch]

引用自 Komarimaru：

引用自 KingKrouch：

Since you want to be a poser that has no clue what they're talking about so badly:
https://imgur.com/a/7roCSux
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Sonic_Heroes

Now actually read the wiki page and look at how long it is, and how many of those mods rely on Reloaded II AND hex editing. No sane person would go through that to play it on a modern PC setup when they could just play the GameCube version.

Secondly:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/User:KingKrouch

Hey, thanks. Looks like you didn't submit any fixes. All you've done is verify something working. Thus, you didn't contribute anything to the wiki. You can tell, since it says that. Only on recent games too, LOL

Anyone, can verify if a fix works. That's not a contribution, if anything, spam lol. So, congrats I guess?

And hey, still want that video? Want me to upload it tonight before bed, or in the morning before work? Since working just fine my end.

Well, looks like in the morning before work. Even the crappy controller scheme works, no analog just like Sonic DX, barf.

Look up the username in the searchbar. Yet another fail. Do some more research.

[Komarimaru]

引用自 KingKrouch：

引用自 Komarimaru：

Hey, thanks. Looks like you didn't submit any fixes. All you've done is verify something working. Thus, you didn't contribute anything to the wiki. You can tell, since it says that. Only on recent games too, LOL

Anyone, can verify if a fix works. That's not a contribution, if anything, spam lol. So, congrats I guess?

And hey, still want that video? Want me to upload it tonight before bed, or in the morning before work? Since working just fine my end.

Well, looks like in the morning before work. Even the crappy controller scheme works, no analog just like Sonic DX, barf.

Look up the username in the searchbar. Yet another fail. Do some more research.

You do realize, it says on each page what you did, right? right?!

Useless things like, confirming what engine the game is running on, or what resolutions you tested.

Code Vein for example, you confirmed Pillar Boxed, wow! You confirmed the bug with elevators and borderless windowed! Woo!

Need I go on? Submitting useless things like resolutions not even UWS uses.

You sure contributed a lot!