SeedsandPlants Jan 1, 2024 @ 10:51am
2
Windows7 users: Move to Ubuntu / Pop_OS for games that don't work on Windows10
There are a handful of games or more that work on Windows 7, but don't on newer systems. Instead of being forced to upgrade to a system where some games don't work, switch to a computer system you've likely never used on your computer before, but use every day.

Web servers, network routers, managed switches, smart televisions, and mobile devices, all use some form of Linux, or in Apple's case, UNIX or berkley software distribution, which has a permissive software license so Apple can close the source code.

Linux is used on the steamdeck and Valve wants all the games to work on the Linux platform. This work was started over ten years ago in 2012, and Valve is continuing to support Linux.

Some games from the 1990s don't work on Windows 10, so an upgrade and forget those old games is not a complete solution, and a compromise most are not willing to accept. Linux reduces this compromise greatly, by allowing older games to keep working, and allows support for new games too.

The controller supporn is cool, allawing me to use a new xbox controllor in a game from two decades ago. So steam has a little bit of special magic there, which I would find difficult to setup without steam's controller compatibility effort.

The steam proton compatibility layer is what makes the steamdeck a viable option, allowing Windows games to be played on Linux. Not all games properly install, such as Dirt 2, which I've been playing for many years, but doesn't launch on Linux using proton. It installs, but I think it is missing some component.

Otherwise, of the few games I have tested, I haven't had any other issues and performance is comparable to a Windows system. It may be a bit lower but still playable will similar latency, so you may need to turn off anti-aliasing or other heavy features.

Pop_OS! based on Ubuntu is easy to use, but you don't have to boot an installation disc in jump in. Linux uses "Live booting" which is the 100% complete sysstem, bootable from a usb flash drive. To avoid rebooting your pc, A virtualbox machine is a better choice.

Virtualbox is like opening a video game to another computer system, displayed in a small window. This allows you to test the system, learn it's interface, programs and settings, without installing it to a real hard disk or ssd. So while you stick with Windows 7 you can learn Linux, which has continuous developer support and is Valve's focus for compatibility, because of the steamdeck.

You can continue to support Microsoft, and its reduced compatibility for older games, or jump over to Linux where it is common to support older graphics libraries and related software, thanks to Wine is Not an Emulater, wine.

Without Wine, Coheweavers and steams efforts with proton, the steamdeck would be running Windows. Valve did not want this, so they are actively improving Linux's game support, which will hopefully interest more people into Linux and will be a safe choice for old and new desktop computer systems. There is only one way to get there:

Users.

If there is only 1-2% of desktop gamers using Linux in ten years from now, it will continue to be seen as a complicated niche platform for losers and nerds. But open-source is incredibly exciting, allowing backwards compatibility with Vulkan for graphics cards that did not originally have it.

Windows won't allow tools or drivers that do that, but open-source does. It allows improving software, even if it stopped being developed, someone else can pick it up and add features. Proprietary software just doesn't allow this level of freedom. Once DirectX compatibility (especially the really early versions 1-7) is figured out, hopefully new games will stop using it. As a software or game developer, do you want to rely on proprietary libraries and tools, that are difficult to maintain support, or do you want to use open-source projects, which allows your creation to be continuously supported in the future?

I know what world I want to see, but we have to make this choice as a gaming community. DirectX makes it difficult to run older games, and without Wine / Codeweavers / Valve's proton, it would not be as easy. Let's continue the effort of supporting all games, and demand as a game community, that we no longer want planned obsolesence in our software. We don't want to be forced to abandon our games, just because a company released a new (albeit free) system that doesn't support those older games. We want open standards, to help extend the amount of time we are able to play these experiences, and to help extend how long we are able to appriciate a unique game design and artistry.

If you are fine with computer games becoming unplayable every 20 years, then I don't believe you fully appreciate games. Sure, we can go find old consoles, but at some point those won't be available, and Atari has already switched to software emulation. We have progressed computer development at an ovelwhelming pace, and I believe we should keep our gaming and software roots available for generations to enjoy. We need open standards like Vulkan and Linux systems, to maintain software support, so that we can have an increasing amount of game diversity, not a refresh every 20 years because software changes.

That is avoidable, and we should be preserving these tools, not forgetting them.
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Showing 31-45 of 100 comments
i have considered using linux and steam support even suggested using it. i need to burn it on a disc however and i am unable to find the software for it. i have multiple dvd burners but, they do not work without software.
kitty Jan 2, 2024 @ 2:44pm 
Originally posted by andreasaspenberg575:
i have considered using linux and steam support even suggested using it. i need to burn it on a disc however and i am unable to find the software for it. i have multiple dvd burners but, they do not work without software.

why disk? don't you have spare usb drive? even old small one would do, you can find ISOs under 4Gb of size. there are tools to flash Linux ISO to usb drive (from Windows) like this one https://unetbootin.github.io/

also notice you can use it to install Linux from HDD (if you have no CD or USB).
SeedsandPlants Jan 2, 2024 @ 5:48pm 
Originally posted by Zefar:
Originally posted by wrqsdfxcvsdfw:
linux can run more games than windows 7. linux can run everything as long as developers don't actively preventing their games from running on linux (online games with kernel anticheats or specific antilinux checks like in genshin impact).

Uh huh, not really what I've seen. Steam Deck can't play all of the games or even half of them.
The Anti cheat stuff is not Anti Linux, it's anti cheat and those things can make quite a bit of difference.
If you ever seen the Youtube video on the "The Wiggle" for Tarkov you'll learn why anti cheat needs those things running.

LinusTechtips have also tried getting games to work on Linux when they do their challenge but fails to get them to run properly because no one has made any fixes for it.

Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
try it in a virtual machine. Since you are on Windows, Ubuntu, Fedora, and OpenSUSE is ailable for download in the microsoft store, so that may be an easier option.

Linux mint has exceptionally beautiful wallpapers, so beautiful, that someone took the time to download all the wallpapers from all linuxmint wallpapers, which is quite a lot. It is available on github.

Not gonna bother. I have Win11 and will not be installing Linux.
Beautiful wallpapers is up to your own opinion.

Linux might start out easy but you will encounter problems with it. When those problems show up, fixing can wary from easy to impossible. It is more likely you'll get it too hard or impossible.
On Windows you will not get these problems.

In LinusTechTips video where they used Linux for daily drive, Linus managed to uninstall the whole OS when trying to install Steam. Was hilarious.

But this was with an official exe from the main page.

When you get high tech people actively avoiding your OS there is a problem.

I DO NOT trust Linus's Linux videos. He's an influencer with an agenda. All of that is pre-recorded, scripted and edited, to push an idea.

I like the videos, but they are exaggerated by a large degree. It's all real, but the issues that arise can be avoided by reading the screen, and not assuming a mouse click will activate the correct procedure just clicking OK.

I saw their first four videos, and that set the tone for the rest of them, here's all these problems, system is ♥♥♥♥, nobody should use Linux, too nerdy / complicated.

I haven't watched his recent linux videos, and I'm not interested, if you remove the entire system when installing a program, then you are not paying attention to what the display is outputting. If there is one thing Linux has, it is verbose, so you usually get too much information, rather than not enough.

I encourage you to repeat their exact, step-by-step verbatim actions with an Ubuntu system inside a virtual machine (it can even be downloaded in the microsoft store), and see if:

a) you get the same system software removal

or

b) you see, by reading the available information, that by doing whatever they were doing, that software is shown to be set for removal, rather than installation, or upgrade, and find a different way to complete the task.

When removing certain programs in Linux, usually many of the pre-installed programs, they all have dependencies, shared with core components of the system, which, for some reason, will remove the dependencies of that program.

In that case, because those cmponents are re-used and shared throughout the system, it also usually selects all other programs using those dependent software.

There are a couple different package management systems in Linux, and Ubuntu, or really Debian, uses apt.

If you see a gigantic amount of programs set for removal, then it means a program you asked to remove, is also removing the components used by that program.

That's not a good way to do it, so you can set the dependent packages to be kept. There are many ways to do that, but a program called

synaptic package manager

can be a decent gui to see all the programs set for removal when you want to remove a program, and all the selected software to be removed. Either just don't remove that program or manually put a hold on all the dependent programs that are used by the system, then remove the program.

It's issues like these where Linux needs polish, but if we crawl back to Microsoft, Linux won't get anywhere on the desktop.
Crashed Jan 2, 2024 @ 6:47pm 
Not taking advice from a pusher.
Sanctuary Jan 2, 2024 @ 11:21pm 
Originally posted by andreasaspenberg575:
i have considered using linux and steam support even suggested using it. i need to burn it on a disc however and i am unable to find the software for it. i have multiple dvd burners but, they do not work without software.
Use ventoy on a flash drive and copy linux iso there.
Xautos Jan 3, 2024 @ 12:53am 
no one is forcing you to accept delusions based off entitlement issues that windows 7 and 8 are going to keep going forever.

No one is forcing you to accept that the OS's aren't dead.

(even though in both cases those are delusions and they are dead. but you can believe the opposite if you want)
Zefar Jan 3, 2024 @ 6:35am 
Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
I DO NOT trust Linus's Linux videos. He's an influencer with an agenda. All of that is pre-recorded, scripted and edited, to push an idea.

He's not an influencer. He's the boss of his own company that review tech related things. He is still hoping for Linux to get actually better and with the launch of Steamdeck has hopes it gets better. So that agenda he's pushing for is just to make Linux better. Huh bit different from what you're believing.

Not every video is scripted. Plenty of segments are unscripted for them.
https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=597
Installing Steam on PopOS.

That has been fixed but how a major gaming client couldn't just install itself without any problems is still a big problem.

Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
I saw their first four videos, and that set the tone for the rest of them, here's all these problems, system is ♥♥♥♥, nobody should use Linux, too nerdy / complicated.

They had some simple tasks that had to be done. One of them being install Steam and play a game.
He had some major issues with getting the games to work where sound didn't work or the gamepad didn't work.
Minecraft Dungeons didn't work and his kids where like "Why is your OS so broken?"

Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
I haven't watched his recent linux videos, and I'm not interested, if you remove the entire system when installing a program, then you are not paying attention to what the display is outputting. If there is one thing Linux has, it is verbose, so you usually get too much information, rather than not enough.
See the video I linked too. It's about 1 minute long part.

Now YOU might know what's going on when you're given an error message but the average Joe will just be "Tell me how to install Steam" and will repeat the same process as Linus did.


Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
It's issues like these where Linux needs polish, but if we crawl back to Microsoft, Linux won't get anywhere on the desktop.

The thing is, it hasn't really gone anywhere either. Even after all of these years.
סוויפטי Jan 3, 2024 @ 6:52am 
please no i dont want masses of these "win7 people" coming to linux! let them stay on win 7!

if last decades has learned us anything GATEKEEPING is a GOOD thing
Lumios Jan 3, 2024 @ 7:33am 
Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
snip
I think the criticism at Linus is unwarranted. I don't watch his videos, so I don't know what he did to install Steam, but I don't think he would intentionally undermine the reputation of linux. Some distributions have Steam in their repository, and it can as easily be installed via the package manager as anything else. But if it's not, then Linus would have to install Steam manually, or add a repo with Steam on it - again, manually.
Additionally, if Linus knows very little about linux and follows some tutorial made by some bum, of course he is gonna do something completely irrational that people who have used linux for longer than 2 years would never do. I'm guessing he was told to use some workaround with root privileges to install Steam which could invariably destroy his system.

I also had to deal with bs on linux once, I updated a dependency and it broke the entire system. That was a decade ago, so I don't think it's ever gonna happen again, (especially now that I am far more experienced with it) but if something like this could happen to me it could happen to anyone, even Linus.
I believe it is important we acknowledge the kinks: There are still some problems plaguing linux like driver support and so on. Hence, on my post in the hardware forum, I still conceded that a few people should stay on Windows because Linux is not a good fit for them or their computer.

As for the argument you're having, there is no point arguing with that person. Give them no attention.
They're trying to make you angry with an obvious logical fallacy (Argument from anecdote[practicalpie.com]) when what didn't work for Linus could as well work fine for another person.
Everybody should, at the very least, try Linux and preferably dualboot it for a month to see if it works as expected or not.

Anyone who says win 10/11 are secure O/Ses is not a credible source.
Last edited by Lumios; Jan 3, 2024 @ 9:24am
SeedsandPlants Jan 3, 2024 @ 11:30am 
Originally posted by Zefar:
Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
I DO NOT trust Linus's Linux videos. He's an influencer with an agenda. All of that is pre-recorded, scripted and edited, to push an idea.

He's not an influencer. He's the boss of his own company that review tech related things. He is still hoping for Linux to get actually better and with the launch of Steamdeck has hopes it gets better. So that agenda he's pushing for is just to make Linux better. Huh bit different from what you're believing.

Not every video is scripted. Plenty of segments are unscripted for them.
https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=597
Installing Steam on PopOS.

That has been fixed but how a major gaming client couldn't just install itself without any problems is still a big problem.

Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
I saw their first four videos, and that set the tone for the rest of them, here's all these problems, system is ♥♥♥♥, nobody should use Linux, too nerdy / complicated.

They had some simple tasks that had to be done. One of them being install Steam and play a game.
He had some major issues with getting the games to work where sound didn't work or the gamepad didn't work.
Minecraft Dungeons didn't work and his kids where like "Why is your OS so broken?"

Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
I
See the video I linked too. It's about 1 minute long part.

Now YOU might know what's going on when you're given an error message but the average Joe will just be "Tell me how to install Steam" and will repeat the same process as Linus did.


Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
It's issues like these where Linux needs polish, but if we crawl back to Microsoft, Linux won't get anywhere on the desktop.

The thing is, it hasn't really gone anywhere either. Even after all of these years.




Originally posted by סוויפטי:
please no i dont want masses of these "win7 people" coming to linux! let them stay on win 7!

if last decades has learned us anything GATEKEEPING is a GOOD thing

This is sarcasm I assume. I am too biased in my remarks, and I went ahead and watched the steam installation, and linux game videos. Linus is not being biased, nor does he have an agenda, I do not agree with my own post after watching the other few videos, and they make it clear that Linux has a ways to go.

Originally posted by Lumios:
Originally posted by SeedsandPlants:
snip
I think the criticism at Linus is unwarranted. I don't watch his videos, so I don't know what he did to install Steam, but I don't think he would intentionally undermine the reputation of linux. Some distributions have Steam in their repository, and it can as easily be installed via the package manager as anything else. But if it's not, then Linus would have to install Steam manually, or add a repo with Steam on it - again, manually.

I also had to deal with bs on linux once, I updated a dependency and it broke the entire system. That was a decade ago, so I don't think it's ever gonna happen again, (especially now that I am far more experienced with it) but if something like this could happen to me it could happen to anyone, even Linus.

I believe it is important we acknowledge the kinks: There are still some problems plaguing linux like driver support and so on. Hence, on my post in the hardware forum,

Anyone who says win 10/11 are secure O/Ses is not a credible source.

Linux is more secure for sure, provable by most web servers running Linux. But it is obvious that Linux has some interface improvements, driver software support, and unification efforts yet to be completed.

I thought proton worked a bit better than it seems, as I don't ploy new games with multiplayer or anti-cheat software. Maybe there are a lot of games that don't work, but I havet't tested those.

Linux is a work in constant progress, and it is not a single unified system. This is helpful in that it offers ctoice, but harmful in that it massively wastes and spreads thin, developer resources needing to support all the various distributions. This makes it much harder for Linux to support hardware consistently, and for software developers to target a main system which will work on all other Linux systems. That's a massive issue. Steamdeck uses Arch, so that it gets updates as soon as possible, but arch is a bit complex, and different than Ubuntu, or red hat and fedora.

Some of these issues are solvable, like software compatibility on various systems. I don't like it, but containerized programs can package all various bits for a program. But this makes the computer theme not able to be matched by the software. It is also why it is even more complicated to make steam see separate hard disks or even partitions.s, and why installing system in a distribution repository is much simpler to setup.

Linux doesn't work with various hardware because hardware vendors see Linux as a joke, not a serious or respectable system worth their time--except that it is the world's most widely used operating system, just not on desknop systems.

If that is to change, it will need more user demand. I believe that there are an approximate 6 million Ubuntu users. That's not much, and most likely does not include server use, as those systems probably haven't installed this telemetry software, and may be on an older software release. Fedora, developed by redhat, is wanting to add telemetry to know how many active users there are, which will allow developers to see this information. With only 6 million users on Ubuntu, Linux will not receive driver support from Nvidia, or AMD, comporable to the GUI on Windows--as there is no real incentive to do so.

Realtek will not release proper wireless drivers that support all the hardware features on Windows, if it's 6 million, vs 3 billion Windows users, it just won't happen. This is incredibly infuriating, but it is the reality of how businesses currently function. If all 6 million Ubuntu users begged Realtek to update and improve their driver, just enough to not jump through major workaroutds for functions like client+access-point mode, it probably still won't happen.

It's this frustrating Windows support dominance that makes Linux as difficult as it is. If this is ever to change, there is only one way: users.

We need a bigger market, 6 million Ubuntu users is a joke to these companies, and they'll never take the desktop linux plotform seriously, until there is a serious amount of users demanding support. If 6 million Ubuntu users stop purchasing Realtek and switch to purchasing Intel wireless, realtek won't care one bit. There is enough money from the BILLIONS of computers pre-installed with both Windows and realtek branded hardware, that it won't make any difference.

Linux will always have hardware support atd supporting software issuses with missing features, or the inability for the wifi driver to talk to hostAP, requiring matual patching of the wifi driver, and even that has issues. Linux will not improve if businesses do not see it as a serious platform, and only as a niche system. That can only change if we are willing to put up with the issues of Linux, but care enough to use the system, and overlook those issues. In time, they will get solved.

Hardware support usually improves with every Linux kernel release, and game compatibility steadily improves. Wine started in 2001, and so has been in development for over 20 yeors. These things take time, but there is nothing that can be done right now to make Linux game development easier.

I don't know what the solution is, but there are many different versions of various components, and for whatever reason, and incompatible with one another. That's a MAJOR issue, and holds back Linux support, as each system has different versions of components, or hasn't updated etc. That's a gigantic issuse that has been an issue ever since I started using Linux, and has not yet been resolved.

A good example of this is Yo Frankie blender game. Blender, an animation program, has a game developed for it called Yo Frankie. By 2009 or 2010, it was not playable on Linux, with the native Linex files. Ironically, it comes with a Windows version available, which continues to work. Even from 2010 to now, it still works.

Now, why is that? What changed in Linux software, but is bundled in that .exe that didn't change? No idea, but that is the kind of software compatibility issues that need to be resolved in the world of Linux software development. Without developers, who aren't burned out by the software complexity, Linux is going nowhere. But without users, developers won't care in the first place, and neither will hardware / software vendors.

It's always, and continues to be a revolving issue on Linux.

We need developers, but the compatibility issues make that owerwhelming.

We need hardware vendors+driver software support, but the market is too small for them to care.

We need users to transition to a system that is not quite ready for mass-adoption, but users won't move to the system because it is not ready.

So, what to do? Well I think we need to solve the development complexity of Linux as soon as possible. At least the people who can improve the system will have an easier time doing so, and might even enjoy the process more. This gives a better chance of making the Linux desktop easier to use.

That will in turn allow more users to enjoy Linux, but they will still have missing hardware functionality, that is very easy to access on Windows. But, with a larger developer and user base, with telemetry data confirming the size of the Linux desktop commutity, will allow hardware+software vendors to take the system seriously, and close that remaining gap.

So, even with hundreds of millions of desktop users, Linux cannot progress with the development hassles of Linux, and it makes this system very niche to work on. When this improves, Linux will have more users, as Linux will become easier to use. Then many years later, and it will be many years later, hardware vendors will take Linux seriously, as if they do not support Linux fully, then a large segment of their customers will buy a product that does offer complete support.

I want to see an open-source future, I want a computer system that I have more customization with, full hardware support for wireless networking features that don't require re-compiling host-ap into an existing driver to get client+access-point mode to work. I want a future where your operating system doesn't reduce software compatibility, something that is a problem on all operating systems, with Apple dropping 32-bit support and switching cpu platform, and Linux losing support for software when it changes just by a single minor version update.

Linux won't be completely ready for several years, but the best thing I think to do, is get prepared. Start using Linux in a virtual machine, start installing software in Linux, and learning how the system works. When Linux eventually, has found solutions for these design issues, we all will be prepared, atd it won't seem so complicated.

Staying on Windows doesn't hurt anything, as we need more developers helpisg solve development complexity issues, and until then, Linux seems to be stuck in place. But learning Linux will at least help ease the transition when it is time. Valve is investing real money and development effort into Linux game compatibility. With more Linux users supporting steam, it shows Valve that there is demand for those efforts. Valve is trying to bring in more Linux users by way of bringing to Linux what users want: game compatibility.

Valve can help with that part of software availability, but can't force Adobe to bring over their products, unless there is a massive influx of Linux users. It's a really difficult cycle to solve, but we are part of the way to solving game availability. Until Linux is easier to develop for, this is the best that can be done. We have to wait for Codeweavers and Valve to work out all the issues with the compatibility layer, as there are just not enough Linux users playing Windows gawes, to entice game developers to help improve the compatibility.

It all goes back to: development on Linux is more difficult due to the many versions of components.

There are not enough Linux users to make such efforts worthwhile.

There are not enough users, because hardware support is not as good as Windows, because there are not enough Linux users to make it worthwhile.

So, it's going to be a while before Linux is in a design that is easy to use not just for users, but developers too, and at least one of those things need to improve.
Squidward Jan 3, 2024 @ 6:35pm 
I switched to Ubuntu about a week ago and it has been pure agony. Games that ran decently on Win7 10 years ago now either fail to launch or run at single-digit framerates with invisible cursors. Installing different drivers has done nothing to fix this.
Satoru Jan 3, 2024 @ 6:57pm 
Originally posted by Squidward:
I switched to Ubuntu about a week ago and it has been pure agony. Games that ran decently on Win7 10 years ago now either fail to launch or run at single-digit framerates with invisible cursors. Installing different drivers has done nothing to fix this.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/upgrade-to-windows-10-faq-cce52341-7943-594e-72ce-e1cf00382445

Upgrading to Windows 10 is easy. We did literally in place upgrades for thousands of PCs with mostly no issues.

The issue with Linux is everything is bascially an edge case. The steamdeck works only because its ONE thing steam has to build against, they know the drivers, they know how to make it work specifically for this one piece of hardware. In Linux everything is an edge case scenario. And it rquires a lot of work if you don't happen to fall into the small window of 'supported' stuff.
Last edited by Satoru; Jan 3, 2024 @ 7:24pm
Taebrythn Jan 3, 2024 @ 7:25pm 
not one game mentioned that doesn't work on 10/11. i remember mentioned many games yet they all worked on 11 lol. they said finally ff13, resident evil 5. lol both loaded up for me on 11.
lsdninja Jan 3, 2024 @ 7:25pm 
Originally posted by Squidward:
I switched to Ubuntu about a week ago and it has been pure agony. Games that ran decently on Win7 10 years ago now either fail to launch or run at single-digit framerates with invisible cursors. Installing different drivers has done nothing to fix this.

nVidia?

You ideally want a Radeon when running Linux. My system running Pop!_OS has an RX 580 and it's run everything I've thrown at it, even more recent stuff like Control, Fallen Order and Stray. The only game I genuinely threw in the towel with has been Descent 3, but that's just because it didn't play nice with modern widescreen resolutions. I can chuck that on a 98 or XP box though (eventually with a CRT!), so it's no big deal.
Squidward Jan 4, 2024 @ 12:28am 
Originally posted by lsdninja:
You ideally want a Radeon when running Linux
Not only do I have that (7660D specifically) but what I'm seeing makes me wonder if Ubuntu simply isn't using the GPU at all.
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Date Posted: Jan 1, 2024 @ 10:51am
Posts: 99