LMAO, Imagine being a Dev that cares about Smurfing.

Alle Diskussionen > Steam-Foren > Steam Discussions > Themendetails

Exvalcore 19. Dez. 2023 um 15:25

LMAO, Imagine being a Dev that cares about Smurfing.

It's called skill issue, if a high lvl player likes stomping new players, that's totally fine, I think ranking systems in general shouldn't even exist & player names shouldn't be visible to the other player or team if you think it's an issue, players with skill aren't toxic it's the overall pi$$ poor design of overly completive games that are the real issue alongside ESports/any other sport, they are all toxic as F, not acknowledging you as the dev/sport is in fact the real issue of creating toxic behavior is what's so LMAO. Make a game that's actually respectable & you won't have such issues, no different than being labelled anti-consumer for having loot boxes, overprices skins with no real content of value that players don't even own, half baking digital BS which should exist either.

But no everyone enjoy the banwaves, as I see back & laugh at those playing games like those, I wouldn't be caught dead supporting BS like that, only support games that offer players real value & fun sportsmanship that doesn't promote toxicity.

Der Ersteller dieses Themas hat einen Beitrag als Antwort auf seine Frage markiert.
Hier klicken, um zu diesem Beitrag zu springen.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SlowMango:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:
Yes. They in fact are, you can agree to such a match anytime without penalty. A grandmaster is not forced to only play with whatever rank ELO gives them. That's how games work, the players choose to take part in a subsection of the community not get assigned there by force and told who to play with. Thank for this example in fact, smurfing is like ordering anyone who get labeled with grandmaster to only play with grandmasters.
Show me a ranking system that allows a known grandmaster to play a known novice.

That also isn't what smurfing is. Smurfing is allowing a grandmaster to fake their skill to play against novices.

You.....you're joking right? You...you do know you can sit down and play with whoever you want? Elo doesn't get to just declare you will be kicked out of all official ranked matches and lose your right to even be in the rankings because you went to some event anonymously to play with newer players for whatever reason you want. That is in fact how games work, you don't have to announce your name and official ranked title in whatever major rank association the game has whenever you play somewhere.

But you instead want to have it treated as functionally no different than hacking and thus worthy of equal punishment to so much as play anonymously or make a new account to avoid a limited community you're forced into by title. I don't know what the reason any individual does it and neither do you, you aren't a volken soothsayer. All because some people want to, for whatever reason they don't owe you or anyone, to come to an event and play anonymously under an alias.

Does that sound sane to you? Because it sounds insanely beuroractic and totalitarian to me.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The nameless Commander:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:
Yes. They in fact are, you can agree to such a match anytime without penalty. A grandmaster is not forced to only play with whatever rank ELO gives them. That's how games work, the players choose to take part in a subsection of the community not get assigned there by force and told who to play with. Thank for this example in fact, smurfing is like ordering anyone who get labeled with grandmaster to only play with grandmasters.

The thing about "choice" is that people want to choose the opponents based on skill. Of course, I can only benefit from playing against a slightly better player. But I should be able to choose to REFUSE a match against someone who is vastly more skilled. Smurfing is essentially lying about your skill and FORCING yourself onto weaker players for the twisted pleasure of souring the taste of the game for them. I wouldn't mind playing against a much better player if they were COACHING me. But just being a target for a no-effort victory? No, thanks.

And what if they want to choose based on a different criteria? Does whatever choice you think is most fun suddenly mean no one else should have to right to make their own choices on different standards either? All smurfing is doing is withholding you identity to play in an event with a different group, nothing more, nothing less. If you can't handle going into a multiplayer game and not having some promise that your opponent is of equal talent and experience than you then I'm afraid I'm going to have to call you amazing sheltered and treated with the respect given to a toddler.

I've been going back and fourth with the chess example. Are you suggesting that going to a lower rank chess tournament under an alias to see new players using new strategies and combinations is somehow a form of "Twisting pleasure?" Or perhaps not wanting to play in the grandmasters on every match, finding it far too straining rather than the games of lighthearted banter and general relaxed play from the community you would otherwise be assigned? Is there come kind of sick evil behind wanting to test how quickly to can rise through the ranks, or try new more experimental strategies in games where you don't risk getting reporting for sabotage or otherwise malicious play in such experiments?

You are not and never will be owed or promised some perfect game of equal talent and skill t all times and to demand it is beyond arrogant, let alone to treat anyone who doesn't give it to you as no different than hackers and those who commit financial fraud.

< >

Beiträge 106–120 von 170

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie 21. Dez. 2023 um 7:59

Ursprünglich geschrieben von cinedine:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Exvalcore:
I'll put it bluntly, there is almost never an expressed agreement between you the player, the game devs/owners/host or platform nor other players that bind you to some rule of ethics about needing to tell everyone your skill lvl at a game nor should there be.

EULA
Terms of Service
Code of Conduct

You expressively agree to all of them. It's those pesky windows you click through when you start the game for the first time and every so often when they update them.
If you break them, you will get removed from the game eventually.

Cool, ♥♥♥♥ your stupid and worthless little pieces of paper, they have as much worth in this conversation about ethics and the operational standards games should run on as the toilet paper you used this morning. Don't waste everyones time by pretending you can shut down people discussing an ethical issue by saying "well you signed this contract so you dont have any right to say anything against it."

and guess what? I didn't sign any of those things anyway because I don't, have never, and will never play any game that tells me who I can and can't play with by a title they imposed on me. I thus am not bound by any of those agreements and have no reason to regard them as anything but pieces of garbage. Now, I will reiterate for OP, -no one- promises that they will ever only play with people of equal talent and skill to them and refuse to play a match where one side is clearly above the other. That isn't how human competition works.

Sorry but this "well these contracts say..." crap being brought up in ethics arguments is a pet peeve of mind. As if contracts can just say whatever they want and you have to shut your mouth or that they are as absolute as local laws

Ursprünglich geschrieben von El Mythical 23 k.s.c.:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von SlowMango:
Show me a ranking system that allows a known grandmaster to play a known novice.

That also isn't what smurfing is. Smurfing is allowing a grandmaster to fake their skill to play against novices.

Team Fortress 2 competitive mode. I was grand master(1985 top mmr) for a long time. I eventually got feed up with queuing for hours to have half of the people in a 6v6 game not have a badge(tf2 rank).

I understand this is a problem with player count but it 100% happens to anyone stupid enough to not tank their rank today.

Excellent example. While this could be easy up slightly by allowing some slight downgrades, many people claiming surfing is not better than hacking or financial fraud say that having to play with people lower rank than you more than maybe one rank is some kind of threat which much not be allowed. So even with that potential ease in mind, it doesn't solve the problem. To push it further, if you dont like the players that share your rank or how they play and think? It's either smurf or quit the game.

Zuletzt bearbeitet von videomike_Ultimate_Plushie; 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:03

#106

Exvalcore 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:09

I'd be more concerned of Privacy, we need stricter regulations even at the expense of safely/well being of others.

My stance on this matter is that if you allow an anonymous user to signup to your service/game/platform then you revoke all civil lawsuits against that person exception being criminal charges you personally bring/excluding if police are seeking charges wanting info, that they shouldn't be allow to have.

Which basically means game devs/even if platform hosts cannot ID anonymous users or tie back anything to the person in real life even if you've gained that knowledge of who they are, unless you straight up have users be public upfront/upon signing up, with/using real ID's/Names/Locations, otherwise you don't get to track a person or associate accounts to them unless they engage in criminal behavior with/on/in your game at which then you may go after them.

Which also means adding rules like no multi-accounting would be illegal for breach of privacy & a civil offense to be sued upon by that person. You shouldn't have your cake & eat it to when allowing anonymous users.

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Exvalcore; 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:19

#107

AmsterdamHeavy 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:41

Its just bullying for a dopamine fix.

#108

Exvalcore 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:48

Ursprünglich geschrieben von AmsterdamHeavy:
Its just bullying for a dopamine fix.

I disagree, while there is no expressed rule of self IDing, I'd argue in fact games are Anonymous, you do expressly consent to the rules of the game, if the game allows you to get stomped for being unskilled then that's just fair game. Games aren't solely for fun, there is a little bit of competition/learning/skillchecking/socializing & so on, but that dopamine hit is nice, yet another reason one plays a game & the same reason I eat Ice Cream, it feels/tastes good, games don't taste good sadly. Maybe in Neural Link VR one day.

Lol, be that one person, I play video games because the digital food tastes good.

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Exvalcore; 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:54

#109

Gökyüzü 21. Dez. 2023 um 8:54

Honestly if competitive games and ranks and smurfs are to important for you go for it no one can stop you. And most devs dont give a ♥♥♥♥ if you smurf or not check r6 for example. People opening 100's of new smurf accounts every day and there is no way new player can start such a game. And for smurfing there isn't any game that is worst then R6 its at the top.

I have played alot of competitive pvp games and i allways find my self in a point where im going to lose my mind. None of them was fun. None of them was enjoyable. And all my experience from competitive pvp is pain and sufferinig. It is not good for my mental health i doubt it is for anyone's. Some people even work their ass more then real life. People litterly study the game like its a univercity exam. It has reached a point where game isn't a game anymore. Every body just want to prove something totaly pointless and useless. And no one realy cares if you are good or bad at some game.

Im allmost 28 and im done competitive pvp games. I rather play player looter shoters or rpg's now. And if i realy want to play some pvp i can allways casualy play battlefield or mortal kombat 11. And this 2 game are a save house from all the toxicty, try hards and trolls from competitive games for me.

#110

Tito Shivan 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:09

Ursprünglich geschrieben von videomike_Ultimate_Plushie:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von cinedine:

EULA
Terms of Service
Code of Conduct

You expressively agree to all of them. It's those pesky windows you click through when you start the game for the first time and every so often when they update them.
If you break them, you will get removed from the game eventually.

Cool, ♥♥♥♥ your stupid and worthless little pieces of paper, they have as much worth in this conversation about ethics and the operational standards games should run on as the toilet paper you used this morning.

-There's no rules
-Yes there are, they're here
-♥♥♥♥ those rules, I don't like them.

#111

Exvalcore 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:18

Don't Smurf, likely isn't a rule because it's legally not even a legal term, you can outline a non allowed behavior, like don't crouch/emote on a kill, I don't like that rule either even if considered poor sportsmanship. No Multi-Accounting literally covers Smurfers so it doesn't need it's own rule. But I already gave my opinion on that, you shouldn't be able to ban Multi-Accounting if you allow anonymous users.

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Exvalcore; 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:21

#112

Komarimaru 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:20

I won't lie, when get to check this thread, I oddly get a smirk at my lips of the few who got busted complaining so much.

I hope Valve and other game companies do more to prevent such things in the future, applying bans to people in such a way since it does ruin the game for others and locks people out of playing the game long if new.

#113

cSg|mc-Hotsauce 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:21

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Exvalcore:
Don't Smurf, likely isn't a rule because it's legally not even a legal term, you can outline a non allowed behavior, like don't crouch/emote on a kill, I don't like that rule either even if considered poor sportsmanship. No Multi-Accounting literally covers Smurfers so it doesn't need it's own rule.

Cheat
Examples of such prohibited behavior include: running cheat programs; smurfing; and artificially boosting your match-making rank.

https://store.steampowered.com/online_conduct/

#114

Komarimaru 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:22

Ursprünglich geschrieben von cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Exvalcore:
Don't Smurf, likely isn't a rule because it's legally not even a legal term, you can outline a non allowed behavior, like don't crouch/emote on a kill, I don't like that rule either even if considered poor sportsmanship. No Multi-Accounting literally covers Smurfers so it doesn't need it's own rule.

Cheat
Examples of such prohibited behavior include: running cheat programs; smurfing; and artificially boosting your match-making rank.

https://store.steampowered.com/online_conduct/

:summercat2023:

To add to that, you do clarify what smurfing is too.
https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3692442542242977036

#115

cSg|mc-Hotsauce 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:24

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Komarimaru:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

https://store.steampowered.com/online_conduct/

To add to that, you do clarify what smurfing is too.
https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3692442542242977036

Scroll down to "Banning Smurfs"

https://steamcommunity.com/games/dota2/announcements/detail/2995430596679058278

Also...

https://steamcommunity.com/games/dota2/announcements/detail/3902996144638678169?snr=2___

#116

Exvalcore 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:28

well, steam can't legally define a definition, if being racist was defined by steam as only applying when discussing black people, then courts would definitely have an issue with that.

The narrow term is as followed.

'smurf' is used in gaming to describe a player in an online game that creates a new account to play against lower-ranked players.

Cheat
Examples of such prohibited behavior include: running cheat programs; smurfing; and artificially boosting your match-making rank.

WELL YOU CAN GET ME BANNED RIGHT NOW GO TRY IT, I bet steam won't ban me for sitting in gold rank in Yugioh Master Duel which is a form of artificially boosting my rank from lvling up.

I'd Laugh so had if steam had the balls to give that ban.

Zuletzt bearbeitet von Exvalcore; 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:30

#117

cSg|mc-Hotsauce 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:30

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Exvalcore:
well, steam can't legally define a definition, if being racist was defined by steam as only applying when discussing black people, then courts would definitely have an issue with that.

The narrow term is as followed.

'smurf' is used in gaming to describe a player in an online game that creates a new account to play against lower-ranked players.

Cheat
Examples of such prohibited behavior include: running cheat programs; smurfing; and artificially boosting your match-making rank.

WELL YOU CAN GET ME BANNED RIGHT NOW GO TRY IT, I bet steam won't ban me for sitting in gold rank in Yugioh Master Duel which is a form of artificially boosting my rank from lvling up.

I'd Laugh so had if steam have the balls to give that ban.

Steam doesn't do anything. Steam is the service while Valve is the company. Valve also didn't make up the definition of smurfing.

Yugioh Master Duel is not a Valve title and that game developer can choose whether or not to consider smurfing bannable for their game.

Zuletzt bearbeitet von cSg|mc-Hotsauce; 21. Dez. 2023 um 9:31

#118