LIES LIES LIES. tinfoil hat time...

[DmAnd]

Ok what the heck is going on?

Have you all noticed the big games being released by big companies require top of the line hardware and it still runs and looks like a game from 2018 or before?

What the heck is going on?

Cities Skylines 2 is just one of many examples.

Are we all being played for fools and most of our hardware is being used for some cloud mining operation?

Most people think that devs have just become lazy or publisher pressure and sure, that is most likely the case if i am to be honest, but as a gaming community i think we need to have a serious conversation into what is happening.

We have even come out with tech like DLSS and FSR.... lololololololol
It doesn't make any gosh daRn sense

[Haruspex]

It's called diminishing returns. Graphics have gotten to a point where more and more power is required for less and less meaningful graphical advances. Big developers still think it's graphics that sell games, and they think that without the big graphical advances we've enjoyed every generation for the past 25-30 years that games won't sell. They push the development teams for MOAR GRAFIX, and the team has no choice but to try, to mixed results with obscene system requirements.

On the contrary, it's novel experiences and interesting gameplay that really sells games, but that's risky. Publishers don't want to give tens of millions of dollars to risky, they want a safe bet. They want guaranteed returns on investment. So the publishers say, "Don't try to do anything new or interesting. Just stick to what works and add more graphics! Don't care how you do it, just do it or we'll dissolve your studio and recycle your team into making gatcha mobile games."

[DmAnd]

Just to add more of my thoughts.
Going from 9th gen Nvidia to 10th gen +20-30%?
10th gen to 20 gen +another 20-30%
20 gen to 30 gen .... 30 gen to 40 gen ....

All of it adds up to a supposed massive uplift
What do we really have to show for it? Ultimite Epic Battle Simulator 2? Teehee wink

Tin foil hat rant....
With Blackrock owning so much of so many things in so many areas, synthetic benchmarks could quite literately be synthetic
End of tin foil hat rant.

Oh but now we have Ray Tracing. Its so good that you can use your frontal advisories eye ball to blind fire behind you and snag the stealthy adversary coming from the rear.

It is pretty though and makes some games look great but we needed new hardware with special cores and even then the normal cores still received a uplift.

So the ray traced stuff i can understand and it quite a different subject kind of...

[Start_Running]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

The problem is there lack of optimizations in certain games, not wanting to use methods that make it less demanding such as doing redering tricks, and not lowering poly count, or adding too much effects that just cause performance hit.

Games are getting more demanding, and so are newer game engines, the problem is that there a push for ray/path tracing, and upscaling such as FSR/DLSS, which IMO is a bad sign if the heavy focus is around FSR/DLSS to meet 60FPS standard at 1080p, so don't be shocked when Devs try to make RTX 4080 the new standard for everyone for 1080p native support.

It's not really even the games or the engines. Ask yourself why they keep throwing in so many effects, why they don't lower the polycount but rather seem to go out of their way tio icnrease it?

Because the gameing public expects and damn near demands it. Because they didn't spend a months rent on a new graphics card to play some low poly game..

As for optimization.. well that's tricky. Histyorically the more optimized a game is, the more trouble it causes down the road.

Początkowo opublikowane przez RiO:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Start_Running:

The games are doing more stuff. Most of the extra load is coming from the textures and visuals.

CS:2 is literally rendering the teeth inside every pedestrian's mouth without applying any kind of LOD.

This doesn't have anything to do with the game 'doing more stuff'.
This has to do with the game being programmed and created by a bunch of idiots.

Butt you never know when one of those heads might get exploded and people will want to see those teeth and jaws fly. And hey Besides there usually aren't individual teeth. just a flat curve with some texturing work done on them

But yeah even rendering teeth is "doing stuff."

But the thing is. If you have an issue with those types of games OP.. why are you buying them?

[Pierce Dalton]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Start_Running:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

The problem is there lack of optimizations in certain games, not wanting to use methods that make it less demanding such as doing redering tricks, and not lowering poly count, or adding too much effects that just cause performance hit.

Games are getting more demanding, and so are newer game engines, the problem is that there a push for ray/path tracing, and upscaling such as FSR/DLSS, which IMO is a bad sign if the heavy focus is around FSR/DLSS to meet 60FPS standard at 1080p, so don't be shocked when Devs try to make RTX 4080 the new standard for everyone for 1080p native support.

It's not really even the games or the engines. Ask yourself why they keep throwing in so many effects, why they don't lower the polycount but rather seem to go out of their way tio icnrease it?

Because the gameing public expects and damn near demands it. Because they didn't spend a months rent on a new graphics card to play some low poly game..

As for optimization.. well that's tricky. Histyorically the more optimized a game is, the more trouble it causes down the road.

Początkowo opublikowane przez RiO:

CS:2 is literally rendering the teeth inside every pedestrian's mouth without applying any kind of LOD.

This doesn't have anything to do with the game 'doing more stuff'.
This has to do with the game being programmed and created by a bunch of idiots.

Butt you never know when one of those heads might get exploded and people will want to see those teeth and jaws fly. And hey Besides there usually aren't individual teeth. just a flat curve with some texturing work done on them

But yeah even rendering teeth is "doing stuff."

But the thing is. If you have an issue with those types of games OP.. why are you buying them?

Because the op wants to play them, maybe? The real issue is that games have become a lot more demanding while looking pretty much the same.

[Komarimaru]

Either my eyes are still great after all these years, or people really are not seeing the difference between games from only 5 years ago to now.

Games are vastly larger, less culling of mesh and textures and greater view distances. Higher quality textures that are plainly obvious, including normals and specular. Higher LOD mesh... I mean... The difference is night an day.

Are people just playing on low and medium settings or something?

[Start_Running]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Komarimaru:

Either my eyes are still great after all these years, or people really are not seeing the difference between games from only 5 years ago to now.

Games are vastly larger, less culling of mesh and textures and greater view distances. Higher quality textures that are plainly obvious, including normals and specular. Higher LOD mesh... I mean... The difference is night an day.

Are people just playing on low and medium settings or something?

If they were, they wouldn't be complaining about performance. and here's the joke. Most games look pretty darned good on medium settings.

[☎need4naiim☎]

For sure, there is something going on more than just "bad coding, lazy developers" excuses. Take this one below, an upcoming FREE TO PLAY game which wants an RTX2070 SUPER as minimum GPU with i7-9700K as minimum CPU.

It may not be "all that weird", until you look at its graphics. Those graphics can easily reached by a GTX650. As OP says in header post, there are many possibilities why such a game can demand your PC to have that processing power, yet the game is planned to be "FREE". Hmmm...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1779020/HEKA/

[Komarimaru]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ☎need4naiim☎:

For sure, there is something going on more than just "bad coding, lazy developers" excuses. Take this one below, an upcoming FREE TO PLAY game which wants an RTX2070 SUPER as minimum GPU with i7-9700K as minimum CPU.

It may not be "all that weird", until you look at its graphics. Those graphics can easily reached by a GTX650. As OP says in header post, there are many possibilities why such a game can demand your PC to have that processing power, yet the game is planned to be "FREE". Hmmm...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1779020/HEKA/

Is day that's a very bad faith argument, since a single person developed indie game, that and the requirements are more than likely temporary since being developed and uses raytraced lighting.

[Pierce Dalton]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Komarimaru:

The difference is night an day.

Is it?

2016 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6Tnt4na-w

2023 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbYvDT0kkM

At best, the latter looks slightly better. Requirements, on the other hand, are much higher.

[Komarimaru]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pierce Dalton:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Komarimaru:

The difference is night an day.

Is it?

2016 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6Tnt4na-w

2023 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbYvDT0kkM

At best, the latter looks slightly better. Requirements, on the other hand, are much higher.

I see a massive difference even with it just being video. Second one has vastly better reflections, the shadows are dynamic and actually change with lighting, and the lighting itself with the bounces was wonderful compared to the harsh sharpness of the first one.

I'm guessing you don't play with raytracing on often too not notice the huge differences?

[Pierce Dalton]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Komarimaru:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pierce Dalton:

Is it?

2016 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6Tnt4na-w

2023 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbYvDT0kkM

At best, the latter looks slightly better. Requirements, on the other hand, are much higher.

I see a massive difference even with it just being video. Second one has vastly better reflections, the shadows are dynamic and actually change with lighting, and the lighting itself with the bounces was wonderful compared to the harsh sharpness of the first one.

I'm guessing you don't play with raytracing on often too not notice the huge differences?

Massive difference? Right.

[ReBoot]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Komarimaru:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pierce Dalton:

Is it?

2016 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6Tnt4na-w

2023 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbYvDT0kkM

At best, the latter looks slightly better. Requirements, on the other hand, are much higher.

I see a massive difference even with it just being video. Second one has vastly better reflections, the shadows are dynamic and actually change with lighting, and the lighting itself with the bounces was wonderful compared to the harsh sharpness of the first one.

I'm guessing you don't play with raytracing on often too not notice the huge differences?

There is a difference, especially if you look for it. Nothing massive though. Both look really good on an absolute level.

[DmAnd]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pierce Dalton:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Komarimaru:

The difference is night an day.

Is it?

2016 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6Tnt4na-w

2023 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbYvDT0kkM

At best, the latter looks slightly better. Requirements, on the other hand, are much higher.

plus on top of that, Horizon is open world, Motorsport is not

[Pierce Dalton]

Początkowo opublikowane przez DmAnd:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pierce Dalton:

Is it?

2016 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s6Tnt4na-w

2023 graphics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMbYvDT0kkM

At best, the latter looks slightly better. Requirements, on the other hand, are much higher.

plus on top of that, Horizon is open world, Motorsport is not

Yup, that crossed my mind. And yet Motorsport is a lot more resource intensive.

[ReBoot]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Pierce Dalton:

Początkowo opublikowane przez DmAnd:

plus on top of that, Horizon is open world, Motorsport is not

Yup, that crossed my mind. And yet Motorsport is a lot more resource intensive.

Yup, because we've long reached the point of diminishing returns. To get somewhat better visuals (not "massively better visuals"), you still need massively more computational power.