Epic laying off 16% of its workforce - Valve chose the winning strategy?

[Yasahi]

News just recently broke out that Epic is laying off about 900 people or around 16% of its entire workforce.

On these forums many have been touting over the years how Epic with all the free games will take market away from Valve and bring forth the demise of Steam. Seems like that's not really the case, eh?

Valve choosing not to join the "free games for thee" madness seems to be doing just fine while Epic is starting to cut costs.

[lsdninja]

Escrito originalmente por Haruspex:

I think this would be true if it were almost anyone else instead of Epic. Epic is aggressive and basically wants to be where Steam is. Steam is relatively benign as a "monopoly". (I would argue 'market leader' instead of 'monopoly', but I digress.) If Epic managed to capture the monopoly they want and drive Steam out, I really wouldn't trust them to be so benevolent.

It's possible to actually compete with Steam by offering a better product, but so far nobody has tried, maybe with the exception of GOG and they have their own set of drawbacks. (Maybe Microsoft too, but they're focusing on subscriptions instead of sales.) The issue is that it won't be easy, cheap, or quick to compete with Valve, and so far nobody else with the resources has had the balls to attempt it. This isn't Valve's fault, and they're under no obligation to kneecap themselves to make it easier for the rest.

There are no such things as benign monopolies, ethical billionaires or consumer-friendly big companies.

[Haruspex]

Escrito originalmente por lsdninja:

There are no such things as benign monopolies, ethical billionaires or consumer-friendly big companies.

Eh... Agree to disagree? I don't think it's that black-and-white.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por Haruspex:

Escrito originalmente por C²C^Guyver |NZB|:

You can't really give away free games by paying publishers to put your games on your platform, and then wonder why more money is going out than coming in.

The plan was kind of like a new store that opens in town that aggressively prices things under the competition until the competition goes out of business, then you can charge whatever you want. The problem with Epic is that the competition proved much more resilient than they anticipated, and now they're running out of funds to keep it going. Didn't even put a dent in Steam's business.

There repeated lost lawsuits don't help either, record breaking fines, trying to sue apple and losing horribly, etc

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Almost 900 people lost their jobs oh no anyways wake me when store closing.

Now when think of all the big talk by Epic, people screaming they make billions of dollars off their Unreal Engine, and Fortnite, this seems like a controversy, as it shouldn't be a financial problem to supporting the 900 or 16% of the people they're letting go. Do the math then you understand what I'm talking about. Anyways as far as I know they're laying off people they bought from other studios, such as "house party" app that a discord clone that flop, a lot of the devs from "fall guys" which isn't a shocker as the game slow down, and less people playing as the hype long gone, and not sure what else they kick off maybe over staff support, it's just a guess here what areas are affected exactly.

Anyways I doubt they touch any staff for the store because that be biggest dumbest thing to do as their store still has things on it roadmap that been sitting there for years. But if things go poof from roadmap, and staff moved, or let go that for the store then that be a bad sign either store gonna be on auto pilot, or if things hit the fan which it shouldn't happen but if it did epic say they're refunding everyone that be automatic sign that the store doom that just worse case scenario if it ever happen.

[RasaNova]

How meaningful is that 16% figure, really? They have over 5000 employees but many are with side projects such as Bandcamp which they recently acquired and are now selling off. (that alone is 250 of the 830 layoffs.) As far as what we see as "Epic" - Unreal Engine, Fortnite, and EGS, it seems that is largely untouched.

According to the Sween-Man, "the company had been spending way more money than we earn" and he mentions they were optimistic about powering through but it was unrealistic. It makes me wonder how much the core Epic offerings and practices will change, if at all.

Link to Sweeny's letter to the employees:

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/layoffs-at-epic

[☎need4naiim☎]

Escrito originalmente por ezwip:

Epic has given me over 300 games. I have nothing negative to say and wish them the best.

Even your parents wouldn't have given you that much of FREE games.

Is Epic a religious foundation for Law and Peace?

That much of free cheese can only appear in a mouse trap.

Who owns 48% of EGS? 👀

Which company has been buying numerous indie gaming studios since 2018?

Behind that company, stands SAME POWER, which owns the company who also bought Volvo Cars from Sweden.

If we don't open our eyes, that 1989 event happened in Tiananmen will start to occur in your country too, GOD FORBID.

Because it is SAME POWER, again, expanding into every existing territory as we speak via "business deals".

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por RasaNova:

How meaningful is that 16% figure, really? They have over 5000 employees but many are with side projects such as Bandcamp which they recently acquired and are now selling off. (that alone is 250 of the 830 layoffs.) As far as what we see as "Epic" - Unreal Engine, Fortnite, and EGS, it seems that is largely untouched.

According to the Sween-Man, "the company had been spending way more money than we earn" and he mentions they were optimistic about powering through but it was unrealistic. It makes me wonder how much the core Epic offerings and practices will change, if at all.

Link to Sweeny's letter to the employees:

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/layoffs-at-epic

Well typically when you sell a company you aren't laying off the employee's of that company. The new owners would lay off employees if they want AFTER the sale, so i'm not sure the layoffs are actually from Bandcamp for instance as it would make no sense.

I haven't exactly researched it very much though

[RasaNova]

Escrito originalmente por brian9824:

Escrito originalmente por RasaNova:

How meaningful is that 16% figure, really? They have over 5000 employees but many are with side projects such as Bandcamp which they recently acquired and are now selling off. (that alone is 250 of the 830 layoffs.) As far as what we see as "Epic" - Unreal Engine, Fortnite, and EGS, it seems that is largely untouched.

According to the Sween-Man, "the company had been spending way more money than we earn" and he mentions they were optimistic about powering through but it was unrealistic. It makes me wonder how much the core Epic offerings and practices will change, if at all.

Link to Sweeny's letter to the employees:

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/layoffs-at-epic

Well typically when you sell a company you aren't laying off the employee's of that company. The new owners would lay off employees if they want AFTER the sale, so i'm not sure the layoffs are actually from Bandcamp for instance as it would make no sense.

I haven't exactly researched it very much though

It depends on the company and situations. I've been "laid off" before, when the company outsourced ("sold") my position to another company. My colleagues and I were effectively unemployed at that point, although some of us had the option to be hired by the company that took over. Not really the same thing, I know but it's the same situation.

Anyway those numbers were from Epic themselves, they sold Bandcamp and are counting those 250 people in their 16% total.

[Doko]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

im not buying games from steam either, and steam seems fine by all accounts, i think there are plenty of spenders on both platforms, epic seems to be geared to young spenders, aka fortnite, steam seems to be geared to old spenders, aka counter strike.

people like me spend on everything other then video games, plenty of free games to go around, but i don't see anyone handing out free tv's or gas for cars.

I'm sorry, but that isn't really the case.

I'm seeing young folks all around the place on Steam, via TF2, L4D, CSGO, Deep Rock Galactic,Sea of Thieves (especially that game), Planetside 2, Broforce and more.

Trying to say one side is old people and the other young just is not the case, it's not even a 50/50 split.

Also who the hell hands out "free" gas/TV/Cars?, that's a terrible analogy comparison.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por RasaNova:

Escrito originalmente por brian9824:

Well typically when you sell a company you aren't laying off the employee's of that company. The new owners would lay off employees if they want AFTER the sale, so i'm not sure the layoffs are actually from Bandcamp for instance as it would make no sense.

I haven't exactly researched it very much though

It depends on the company and situations. I've been "laid off" before, when the company outsourced ("sold") my position to another company. My colleagues and I were effectively unemployed at that point, although some of us had the option to be hired by the company that took over. Not really the same thing, I know but it's the same situation.

Anyway those numbers were from Epic themselves, they sold Bandcamp and are counting those 250 people in their 16% total.

Yeah but outsourcing a department isn't selling the entire company so not really the same situation. From their wording it sounds like the selling of Bandcamp is in ADDITION to the layoffs

In an email to employees, Sweeney revealed that the company would lay off an estimated 16% of Epic employees -- about 830 workers.

Epic will also sell off Bandcamp, an online audio distribution platform, and spin-off most of SuperAwesome, a technology that "enables the youth digital media ecosystem." Those moves will shed about 250 workers from Epic.

or

Epic Games is slashing its workforce by 16%, laying off about 830 employees, as it looks to cut costs and put the Fortnite maker on viable financial footing.

The cutbacks were announced in an internal memo from Epic CEO Tim Sweeney. In addition to the layoffs, the company is selling Bandcamp the music store and community platform it acquired in 2022,

I mean from their wording they mention laying off 830 workers, then they say ALSO sell bandcamp which will shed 250 workers. It seems to be implied in addition to the layoffs from how I read it.

[Doko]

830 people being laid off is still a lot, yet Epic makes it sound like they have more people under their wing than MS, to make that 830 becomes a "tiny" percentage of just 16%, but nearly 1k ppl suddenly being let go is still a lot of people either way Timmy spins it.

if you combine that with Bandcamp, that's well into 1k being let go, so that'll now be 1k people currently competing with others in the same market for a new job (and I doubt every single one of them are going to instantly land a new job, all at the same time either).

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Doko:

830 people being laid off is still a lot, yet Epic makes it sound like they have more people under their wing than MS, to make that 830 becomes a "tiny" percentage of just 16%, but nearly 1k ppl suddenly being let go is still a lot of people either way Timmy spins it.

if you combine that with Bandcamp, that's well into 1k being let go, so that'll now be 1k people currently competing with others in the same market for a new job (and I doubt every single one of them are going to instantly land a new job, all at the same time either).

That's called 'big picture'

Yeah 1k sounds like a lot. until you have to deal with just under 10k,.

[76561199502155650]

i don't see any young people on steam , mostly see old 20 year old accounts or over 15 year account users on the forums, lots and lots of older people.

i know epic has nothing but kids cause they are sorta of annoying in games like fortnite when you get randomly matched up with a group of obnoxious brats, also fortnite skin game makes them alot of money that CSGO just doesn't compare with.

you are talking about a game steam can't protect users skin, they allowed skin trade and thus caused security issues for both accounts an in game skins for csgo players.

something fortnite and epic did not do, plus fortnite is not selling gun skins, but player model skins, much more appealing, i don't think many people know that a vast majority of epic sales are micro transactions in the games they actually own.

its kinda funny to see everyone jumping on saying epic is failing when 900 people got laid off , 900 people by steams estimate is about .01% of steams supposed population which is nothing, mean while epic boosts over 100 million users by there own estimates.

can you believe any of them to accurately supply users with real population data, no cause it would be easy to actually see how in active platforms are.

I have enjoyed 100's of games from epic as well, but i have never been harassed by epic staff in the way that steam support and steam mods have harassed me.

i don't actually care or have any loyality to any online store or gaming company, simply look for the best prices on all of them an buy what you like. For me the best price is free, if my activity on the platform helps them then great, steam however shows that they are more afraid of factual data getting out.

this thread is perfect example of the fears steam has for epic, vs the fact that epic has no fears of steam and already on par with or out competing steam on many area's of pc gaming.

thats my opinion on this, 900 people doesn't even fill a subway train in newyork

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't see any young people on steam , mostly see old 20 year old accounts or over 15 year account users on the forums, lots and lots of older people.

i know epic has nothing but kids cause they are sorta of annoying in games like fortnite when you get randomly matched up with a group of obnoxious brats, also fortnite skin game makes them alot of money that CSGO just doesn't compare with.

you are talking about a game steam can't protect users skin, they allowed skin trade and thus caused security issues for both accounts an in game skins for csgo players.

something fortnite and epic did not do, plus fortnite is not selling gun skins, but player model skins, much more appealing, i don't think many people know that a vast majority of epic sales are micro transactions in the games they actually own.

its kinda funny to see everyone jumping on saying epic is failing when 900 people got laid off , 900 people by steams estimate is about .01% of steams supposed population which is nothing, mean while epic boosts over 100 million users by there own estimates.

can you believe any of them to accurately supply users with real population data, no cause it would be easy to actually see how in active platforms are.

I have enjoyed 100's of games from epic as well, but i have never been harassed by epic staff in the way that steam support and steam mods have harassed me.

i don't actually care or have any loyality to any online store or gaming company, simply look for the best prices on all of them an buy what you like. For me the best price is free, if my activity on the platform helps them then great, steam however shows that they are more afraid of factual data getting out.

this thread is perfect example of the fears steam has for epic, vs the fact that epic has no fears of steam and already on par with or out competing steam on many area's of pc gaming.

thats my opinion on this, 900 people doesn't even fill a subway train in newyork

That's a lot of FUD.

[RasaNova]

Escrito originalmente por brian9824:

Escrito originalmente por RasaNova:

It depends on the company and situations. I've been "laid off" before, when the company outsourced ("sold") my position to another company. My colleagues and I were effectively unemployed at that point, although some of us had the option to be hired by the company that took over. Not really the same thing, I know but it's the same situation.

Anyway those numbers were from Epic themselves, they sold Bandcamp and are counting those 250 people in their 16% total.

Yeah but outsourcing a department isn't selling the entire company so not really the same situation. From their wording it sounds like the selling of Bandcamp is in ADDITION to the layoffs

In an email to employees, Sweeney revealed that the company would lay off an estimated 16% of Epic employees -- about 830 workers.

Epic will also sell off Bandcamp, an online audio distribution platform, and spin-off most of SuperAwesome, a technology that "enables the youth digital media ecosystem." Those moves will shed about 250 workers from Epic.

or

Epic Games is slashing its workforce by 16%, laying off about 830 employees, as it looks to cut costs and put the Fortnite maker on viable financial footing.

The cutbacks were announced in an internal memo from Epic CEO Tim Sweeney. In addition to the layoffs, the company is selling Bandcamp the music store and community platform it acquired in 2022,

I mean from their wording they mention laying off 830 workers, then they say ALSO sell bandcamp which will shed 250 workers. It seems to be implied in addition to the layoffs from how I read it.

You could be right, maybe they are actually losing an even larger percentage of their workforce but not including all of it in the numbers presented. I read it differently though, in part because that's because that's my take on how different news outlets are presenting it, and also from statements like this from Sweeny:

"What was the scope of the layoffs?

We are laying off around 830 employees, or 16% of jobs. About two-thirds of the layoffs were in teams outside of core development.

Around 250 people are leaving Epic through our divestitures from Bandcamp and SuperAwesome "

But I'm no expert, and if it is as you say then it adds even more weight to what I was wondering about:

Escrito originalmente por RasaNova:

According to the Sween-Man, "the company had been spending way more money than we earn" and he mentions they were optimistic about powering through but it was unrealistic. It makes me wonder how much the core Epic offerings and practices will change, if at all.