Epic laying off 16% of its workforce - Valve chose the winning strategy?

[Yasahi]

News just recently broke out that Epic is laying off about 900 people or around 16% of its entire workforce.

On these forums many have been touting over the years how Epic with all the free games will take market away from Valve and bring forth the demise of Steam. Seems like that's not really the case, eh?

Valve choosing not to join the "free games for thee" madness seems to be doing just fine while Epic is starting to cut costs.

[Crazy Tiger]

I think it's pretty clear that those 830 employees include the 250 that are going away with Bandcamp and SuperAwesome. A different article I read mentioned a bunch of Fall Guys developer getting axed. So it seems across the board that the layoffs are.

[Doko]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por Doko:

830 people being laid off is still a lot, yet Epic makes it sound like they have more people under their wing than MS, to make that 830 becomes a "tiny" percentage of just 16%, but nearly 1k ppl suddenly being let go is still a lot of people either way Timmy spins it.

if you combine that with Bandcamp, that's well into 1k being let go, so that'll now be 1k people currently competing with others in the same market for a new job (and I doubt every single one of them are going to instantly land a new job, all at the same time either).

That's called 'big picture'

Yeah 1k sounds like a lot. until you have to deal with just under 10k,.

I just checked Epic's general employee count (that stopped counting at around 2020) and it's 2,200, compared to MS's 221,000, and Apple's 164,000, that's still small as hell.

So them losing 830 within their own company itself out of 2,200 still feels like a chunk let go instantly (I know they are rehiring, but I don't see them filling that exact quota within say, 1-3 months time).

[76561199502155650]

still nothing in comparison to the 3000 people microsoft laid off and how microsoft completely axed the whole VR department, cause VR just doesn't sell


if you do the math 16% being 850 people would mean epic employees around 5000 to 6000 people

[Doko]

Escrito originalmente por SlowMango:

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't see any young people on steam , mostly see old 20 year old accounts or over 15 year account users on the forums, lots and lots of older people.

i know epic has nothing but kids cause they are sorta of annoying in games like fortnite when you get randomly matched up with a group of obnoxious brats, also fortnite skin game makes them alot of money that CSGO just doesn't compare with.

you are talking about a game steam can't protect users skin, they allowed skin trade and thus caused security issues for both accounts an in game skins for csgo players.

something fortnite and epic did not do, plus fortnite is not selling gun skins, but player model skins, much more appealing, i don't think many people know that a vast majority of epic sales are micro transactions in the games they actually own.

its kinda funny to see everyone jumping on saying epic is failing when 900 people got laid off , 900 people by steams estimate is about .01% of steams supposed population which is nothing, mean while epic boosts over 100 million users by there own estimates.

can you believe any of them to accurately supply users with real population data, no cause it would be easy to actually see how in active platforms are.

I have enjoyed 100's of games from epic as well, but i have never been harassed by epic staff in the way that steam support and steam mods have harassed me.

i don't actually care or have any loyality to any online store or gaming company, simply look for the best prices on all of them an buy what you like. For me the best price is free, if my activity on the platform helps them then great, steam however shows that they are more afraid of factual data getting out.

this thread is perfect example of the fears steam has for epic, vs the fact that epic has no fears of steam and already on par with or out competing steam on many area's of pc gaming.

thats my opinion on this, 900 people doesn't even fill a subway train in newyork

That's a lot of FUD.

Yeah, I've no idea where he's getting this imaginary data from, that suggests only old people use Steam, and all the younger folkks are on Epic.

yes kids do indeed play Fornite, but there are also kids not playing games on Epic's client like Minecraft, LoL, Roblox, hell there's people from my generation with kids, who are just getting into WoW over these past few years.

This guy is coming off more and more like an Epic knight with each post, and the first red flag was the "only old ppl use Steam" fud.

I'm betting it's Einsburg with a different name again. That guy is always going around changing his name, deleting his post history and basically stanning for Epic at every single turn.

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't see any young people on steam , mostly see old 20 year old accounts or over 15 year account users on the forums, lots and lots of older people.

See that's the thing m8. 'On the forums'. The Forums aren't the entirety of steam. Especially the main forums.

You'll find a lot of the younger folk hanging out on the discord servers.official and unofficial.

Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

I think it's pretty clear that those 830 employees include the 250 that are going away with Bandcamp and SuperAwesome. A different article I read mentioned a bunch of Fall Guys developer getting axed. So it seems across the board that the layoffs are.

basically consolidation. We alreadty have artists in studio x, why do we need artists in studio Y?

Escrito originalmente por Doko:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

That's called 'big picture'

Yeah 1k sounds like a lot. until you have to deal with just under 10k,.

I just checked Epic's general employee count (that stopped counting at around 2020) and it's 2,200, compared to MS's 221,000, and Apple's 164,000, that's still small as hell.

So them losing 830 within their own company itself out of 2,200 still feels like a chunk let go instantly (I know they are rehiring, but I don't see them filling that exact quota within say, 1-3 months time).

You're counting epic. Not their SBU's which is where most of the layoffs seem to be happening.

[76561199502155650]

i don't think epic games is insecure enough to hire people to post on steam forums, it would be pointless due to the fact so much of steam forums is nonsense anyway.

we all know steam employee's people for there own forums however i don't believe epic games or bethesda/microsoft trys to counter product steam on its own forum,

im pretty sure if one of these major companies really wanted to hurt steam they would do it without need for trivial forum messages.

don't be so insecure that some steam users just aren't blind to the gimmick that is steam, or these other online game stores.

and sure if your kids are using steam its most likely cause you use steam and already have the games for them to play on steam, not cause your kids went out an sought steam on there own.

try going to a class room once, and see how many kids use steam and play csgo, vs kids that use epic and play fortnite.

[Tito Shivan]

Escrito originalmente por Doko:

Yeah, I've no idea where he's getting this imaginary data from.

Some threads for reference.
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/6756004301620239425/?tscn=1681769073
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/3761103414979414645/?tscn=1675015792#c3761103845930896339
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/3758849893339213065/?tscn=1673209723

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't think epic games is insecure enough to hire people to post on steam forums.

https://imgur.com/yJW2emd
"Paid influencer marketing effort to disrupt Steam organic traffic coverage"
https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/epic-games-paid-streamers-for-aggressive-marketing/z932ac

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't think epic games is insecure enough to hire people to post on steam forums, it would be pointless due to the fact so much of steam forums is nonsense anyway.

we all know steam employee's people for there own forums however i don't believe epic games or bethesda/microsoft trys to counter product steam on its own forum,

im pretty sure if one of these major companies really wanted to hurt steam they would do it without need for trivial forum messages.

don't be so insecure that some steam users just aren't blind to the gimmick that is steam, or these other online game stores.

and sure if your kids are using steam its most likely cause you use steam and already have the games for them to play on steam, not cause your kids went out an sought steam on there own.

try going to a class room once, and see how many kids use steam and play csgo, vs kids that use epic and play fortnite.

We're still waiting for evidence of these conspiracies you keep saying.

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't think epic games is insecure enough to hire people to post on steam forums, it would be pointless due to the fact so much of steam forums is nonsense anyway.

You'd be surprised how insecure people can be in certain companies.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

we all know steam employee's people for there own forums however i don't believe epic games or bethesda/microsoft trys to counter product steam on its own forum,

Yeah. They are called moderators.
WHen EGS gets forums, they'll likely have moderation staff as well.
Just like EA, MS, Amazon, and most publishers.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

im pretty sure if one of these major companies really wanted to hurt steam they would do it without need for trivial forum messages.

Well EGS tried, and so far doesn't seem to have doe more than hurt itself.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

try going to a class room once, and see how many kids use steam and play csgo, vs kids that use epic and play fortnite.

Well given the age limit on cs, yeah there's probably a limit to what kids can get installed on those systems m8. Least if the lab tech is actually doing their job.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

i don't think epic games is insecure enough to hire people to post on steam forums, it would be pointless due to the fact so much of steam forums is nonsense anyway.

You'd be surprised how insecure people can be in certain companies.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

we all know steam employee's people for there own forums however i don't believe epic games or bethesda/microsoft trys to counter product steam on its own forum,

Yeah. They are called moderators.
WHen EGS gets forums, they'll likely have moderation staff as well.
Just like EA, MS, Amazon, and most publishers.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

im pretty sure if one of these major companies really wanted to hurt steam they would do it without need for trivial forum messages.

Well EGS tried, and so far doesn't seem to have doe more than hurt itself.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

try going to a class room once, and see how many kids use steam and play csgo, vs kids that use epic and play fortnite.

Well given the age limit on cs, yeah there's probably a limit to what kids can get installed on those systems m8. Least if the lab tech is actually doing their job.

It's also funny because CS:GO isn't available on phones like Fortnite is.

[76561199502155650]

im pretty sure the paid influencer thing is made up anyway, nobody is paid to influence gaming reviews except the companies after sales.

my personal opinion is steam is paid to influence game reviews and has some 1000 + steam accounts used to do so daily , the data comes from CSGO and its unlikeliness that 7 million reviews after 12 years circulates on the game, fact is if you compare csgo reviews to any other game on steam you will see it boosts millions of more reviews then much better quality games on this platform.

this is inconsistent and just exposes steam personal whistle blowing that things don't add up on steam and you can't trust what steam says.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

im pretty sure the paid influencer thing is made up anyway, nobody is paid to influence gaming reviews except the companies after sales.

my personal opinion is steam is paid to influence game reviews and has some 1000 + steam accounts used to do so daily , the data comes from CSGO and its unlikeliness that 7 million reviews after 12 years circulates on the game, fact is if you compare csgo reviews to any other game on steam you will see it boosts millions of more reviews then much better quality games on this platform.

this is inconsistent and just exposes steam personal whistle blowing that things don't add up on steam and you can't trust what steam says.

You literally contradict yourself in this statement.

You have also said nothing that is factual.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

im pretty sure the paid influencer thing is made up anyway, nobody is paid to influence gaming reviews except the companies after sales.

my personal opinion is steam is paid to influence game reviews and has some 1000 + steam accounts used to do so daily , the data comes from CSGO and its unlikeliness that 7 million reviews after 12 years circulates on the game, fact is if you compare csgo reviews to any other game on steam you will see it boosts millions of more reviews then much better quality games on this platform.

this is inconsistent and just exposes steam personal whistle blowing that things don't add up on steam and you can't trust what steam says.

We can add paid influencers to API keys, and steam giveaways, as a lot of things your not familiar with. It's a very common practice for companies and they literally advertise the jobs

I suggest you take a class on marketing, it will open your eyes on how the world works and how you are manipulated on a daily basis

[76561199502155650]

Im glad we are on the same page now, please stop trying to manipulate people using steam, using reviews, using bad mouthing against other companies that give free games away to users.

it is all manipulation, from what i have seen is steam is purposely trying to manipulate people to not want to use epic games or collect free games from epic games. its a known fact that if a user is collecting a free game from epic games, they are not buying that same game from steam.

this hurts steam greatly and has largely put a profit dent in steam regardless if they want to declare it or hide it. you can see first hand at the extent steam goes to put a stop to epic game discussions.

what i still can't figure out is why certain users are so invested in steams success and or its policy, it border lines as counter productive to steam when you have steam users purposely trying to sabotage others who bring up questions about steam policy and how steam is allowing certain dangerous things to take place.

[Haruspex]

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

it is all manipulation, from what i have seen is steam is purposely trying to manipulate people to not want to use epic games or collect free games from epic games. its a known fact that if a user is collecting a free game from epic games, they are not buying that same game from steam.

Or maybe people just have a preference for which store they want to use. Who's to say that those people collecting free games from Epic are even in a position to buy those games at all? How is a kid with no money collecting a free game on Epic equivalent to a lost sale on Steam?

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

this hurts steam greatly and has largely put a profit dent in steam regardless if they want to declare it or hide it. you can see first hand at the extent steam goes to put a stop to epic game discussions.

Valve isn't doing anything at all vs Epic. Discussions get shut down because they devolve into petty arguments and insult-slinging, not because Valve is afraid of Epic. As for whether Epic's efforts are somehow hurting Steam or putting a dent in Steam, check out the annual year in review Valve puts out every year. This shows continued, sustained growth year on year for Steam.

Epic puts up a year in review[store.epicgames.com] as well. They had a 2% drop in spending in spite of an increase in users. This indicates people aren't there to spend money, they are there for the free games. When you are trying to grow a new store, a decrease in spending is not what you want to see, especially when your company is already operating in the red.

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

what i still can't figure out is why certain users are so invested in steams success and or its policy, it border lines as counter productive to steam when you have steam users purposely trying to sabotage others who bring up questions about steam policy and how steam is allowing certain dangerous things to take place.

Some of us are invested simply because this is where our games are. We have a vested interest in seeing the continued success and health of our favorite gaming platform of choice. I've been on Steam for almost 20 years now, and I fully expect to still be playing on Steam 20 years from now.

Steam users aren't trying to "sabotage" anyone. These are discussion forums. If someone wants to post unverified claims or wacky conspiratorial nonsense, they should be prepared to earnestly defend those claims from counter-arguments. Simply put, if you can't take the heat, what are you even doing in our kitchen?

A little side note:

Escrito originalmente por Unicorn - Rainbow Unit:

im pretty sure the paid influencer thing is made up anyway, nobody is paid to influence gaming reviews except the companies after sales.

That link Tito Shivan posted of a presentation slide verifying Epic's paid influencer campaign is directly from court discovery in Apple vs Epic. You can't just wave it away because it's inconvenient to what you are trying to claim.