Do people cared about new Unity engine laws?

[Mulyono]

being tortured by steam tax is already pain in the ass, now unity will force unity indie game developer to killing their dream

[Start_Running]

There are other engines out there.
The dreams will live. They'll just have to make a point of sghifting their production pipelines.
I really dunno what Unity was thinking. PEr install? Like WTF? That's like Tier 7 Greed play. I mean even EA or Blizzacti wouldn;'t go THAT far

[Mad Scientist]

Steam takes their cut, Taxes are just that.
There's already a thread made before you, and one thread thats been up for hours about Unity;
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/12/3866958929507421593/

[nullable]

Originally posted by Oink:

being tortured by steam tax is already pain in the ass, now unity will force unity indie game developer to killing their dream

There are other engines. And if someone is adverse to paying for things the cross they have to bear is writing their own engine. Unity being less attractive doesn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by nullable:

Originally posted by Oink:

being tortured by steam tax is already pain in the ass, now unity will force unity indie game developer to killing their dream

There are other engines. And if someone is adverse to paying for things the cross they have to bear is writing their own engine. Unity being less attractive doesn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things.

But you have to admit its pretty scummy pricing. Not only are they vague about when it will kick in. but per install. So basically if a user installs the game 3 times that's 3 different fees, from one sale.

That sorta thing will also make piracy a real bastard for the dev/pubs as well.
Expect to see fewer Unity games on GoG and waaay more unity games with Denuvo levels of drm

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Originally posted by Start_Running:

But you have to admit its pretty scummy pricing. Not only are they vague about when it will kick in. but per install. So basically if a user installs the game 3 times that's 3 different fees, from one sale.

That sorta thing will also make piracy a real bastard for the dev/pubs as well.
Expect to see fewer Unity games on GoG and waaay more unity games with Denuvo levels of drm

Unity clarified that it's a fee upon the first install only that happens after Jan 1, 2024,

So this

So basically if a user installs the game 3 times that's 3 different fees, from one sale.

Wont happen

Still a bit of a bastard. for the accounting. Why pray tell didn't they just up the per sale fee?
I mean since its a first install deal and given the backlog issue.. devs are just going to have a pain with getting hit with the fees, months or even years later.

Those I do thank you for that correction.
But yeah the piracy thing is gonna be a double burn for the devs Lose a sale and its gonna cost ye a license fee. I suspect this will make many devs reconsider their engine choices.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Originally posted by Start_Running:

But you have to admit its pretty scummy pricing. Not only are they vague about when it will kick in. but per install. So basically if a user installs the game 3 times that's 3 different fees, from one sale.

That sorta thing will also make piracy a real bastard for the dev/pubs as well.
Expect to see fewer Unity games on GoG and waaay more unity games with Denuvo levels of drm

Unity clarified that it's a fee upon the first install only that happens after Jan 1, 2024,

So this

So basically if a user installs the game 3 times that's 3 different fees, from one sale.

Wont happen

That still isn't good.

Unity is punishing devs for being successful because of how popular their engine is.

It's also weird that as more big companies(who can easily eat costs) are picking up Unity, this pricing model appears.

[Satoru]

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Wont happen

Even steam overcounted Chinese installations in their steam hardware survey and that's with them trying to account for the fact that Chinese internet cafes wipe their systems often

Good luck when someone gets a multi-million dollar install bill because your slightly popular game in China caused 100 million installs due to daily system wipes by internet cafe owners

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

Originally posted by WolfEisberg:

Unity clarified that it's a fee upon the first install only that happens after Jan 1, 2024,

So this



Wont happen

That still isn't good.

Unity is punishing devs for being successful because of how popular their engine is.

It's also weird that as more big companies(who can easily eat costs) are picking up Unity, this pricing model appears.

But then even big companies will be doing big bean counting and there's a certain point where they know it'll make more sense to use a different engine.

The vagueness as to what they count as successful is also problematic to say the least.

[nullable]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

But you have to admit its pretty scummy pricing. Not only are they vague about when it will kick in. but per install. So basically if a user installs the game 3 times that's 3 different fees, from one sale.

It's not my product and not my business. I try not to have opinions just to have them. If I were going to develop a game, sure, I might not choose Unity based on its new pricing model. But there are other options so why should I care? Because gamers can get riled up about every change that occurs? Pass.

No one is being forced to use Unity, and if the Unity guys wants to drive themselves out of business with unpopular decisions it doesn't really impact me. They'll either roll it back if it does more harm than good, or people will get used to it. Why would I get upset about something developers end up being able to live with? They can take care of themselves. Why would I get upset over a misstep that hasn't played out yet?

Originally posted by Start_Running:

That sorta thing will also make piracy a real bastard for the dev/pubs as well.
Expect to see fewer Unity games on GoG and waaay more unity games with Denuvo levels of drm

Sometimes you just gotta wait to see what actually happens instead of getting riled up over what you imagine.

I don't think Unity will have much success collecting fees from pirated installs. That reads more like imagination run amok than a realistic scenario. I mean do you have some resource with the pricing model where developers are on the hook for pirated installs? Or did you get a little quick with your assumptions?

[Satoru]

Originally posted by nullable:

I don't think Unity will have much success collecting fees from pirated installs. That reads more like imagination run amok than a realistic scenario. I mean do you have some resource with the pricing model where developers are on the hook for pirated installs? Or did you get a little quick with your assumptions?

Note that the core problem is that these fees are UNPREDICTABLE

There are too many edge cases. Too many abuse vectors. Too many ways in which someone can be absolutely screwed by it without notice or recourse

You can argue about steam's 30% cut but no matter what that is

1) clear
2) predictable
3) has a ceiling

regardless of how good or bad your game does. Because there are absolutely real world scenarios in which you can make money on your game, especially in the mobile space, and then get bankrupted by Unity's fees. Or if you're just a small indie dev that gets Unity Plus becuse you can't afford Unity Pro, then get SLAUGHTERED with fees. imagine Vampire Surivors being popular and then getting slammed with a 20 cent per install fee on a $1 game

Its also hilarious in that this 'per install' fee does not apply to the education and GAMBLING industry license. So if you're making a game, you can potentially get hit with a multi million dollar fee. But not if you sell gambling machines.

[Muppet among Puppets]

Is it really not first install?

If its every install i see the next "malicious actors" wave:
"We have your game..... in our shopping bag, 48 hours left to pay us betcon before we install it ...... a lot."

Or soon this if you buy a game:
"Only 49,95, and you are even allowed to install this game..... once."

[Satoru]

Originally posted by Muppet among Puppets:

Is it really not first install?

If its every install i see the next "malicious actors" wave:
"We have your game..... in our shopping bag, 48 hours left to pay us betcon before we install it ...... a lot."

Or soon this if you buy a game:
"Only 49,95, and you are even allowed to install this game..... once."

Unity has 'clarified' this a few times and each tme it doesnt make sense

1) multiple installs count on different platforms count (pc is 1 install and a steamdeck would be 1 different install too), also reinstalls do count 'somehow'
2) no clarifications on how on earth they're going to convince MS/Apple to fork over millions in fees for things like game pass or apple arcade
3) demos count as installs, so yeah basically if you made the dumb mistake of putting your game in a NextFest or something, congrats you're now bankrupt!
4) it would also 'appear' that any open/closed betas would also count. So something like a technical betas would count as an install and then the retail release would be a 'different' one. So yeah say goodbye to those too
5) Dont worry charity bundles don't count! How is Unity going to know what is a charity bundle install? They have 'proprietary' methods of doing so and defintley trust them on that.
6) also note that this magical detection technology somehow works on older builds of Unity, so fun fact they're right now collecting telemetry on your computer. Also don't worry this is definiltey GDPR compliant somehow

[N3tRunn3r]

1: https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/
2: https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/unity-tools/

[Komarimaru]

Originally posted by Satoru:

Originally posted by Muppet among Puppets:

Is it really not first install?

If its every install i see the next "malicious actors" wave:
"We have your game..... in our shopping bag, 48 hours left to pay us betcon before we install it ...... a lot."

Or soon this if you buy a game:
"Only 49,95, and you are even allowed to install this game..... once."

Unity has 'clarified' this a few times and each tme it doesnt make sense

1) multiple installs count on different platforms count (pc is 1 install and a steamdeck would be 1 different install too), also reinstalls do count 'somehow'
2) no clarifications on how on earth they're going to convince MS/Apple to fork over millions in fees for things like game pass or apple arcade
3) demos count as installs, so yeah basically if you made the dumb mistake of putting your game in a NextFest or something, congrats you're now bankrupt!
4) it would also 'appear' that any open/closed betas would also count. So something like a technical betas would count as an install and then the retail release would be a 'different' one. So yeah say goodbye to those too
5) Dont worry charity bundles don't count! How is Unity going to know what is a charity bundle install? They have 'proprietary' methods of doing so and defintley trust them on that.

I feel the most concerning thing is, is the method they use to report a games been isntalled. Means a server setup with at least a ping set saying....

"Hey, I just got installed, here's the hash for what game and engine version! Here's everything about the users system too, but we won't say we got that!"

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Satoru:

Originally posted by Muppet among Puppets:

Is it really not first install?

If its every install i see the next "malicious actors" wave:
"We have your game..... in our shopping bag, 48 hours left to pay us betcon before we install it ...... a lot."

Or soon this if you buy a game:
"Only 49,95, and you are even allowed to install this game..... once."

Unity has 'clarified' this a few times and each tme it doesnt make sense

1) multiple installs count on different platforms count (pc is 1 install and a steamdeck would be 1 different install too), also reinstalls do count 'somehow'
2) no clarifications on how on earth they're going to convince MS/Apple to fork over millions in fees for things like game pass or apple arcade
3) demos count as installs, so yeah basically if you made the dumb mistake of putting your game in a NextFest or something, congrats you're now bankrupt!
4) it would also 'appear' that any open/closed betas would also count. So something like a technical betas would count as an install and then the retail release would be a 'different' one. So yeah say goodbye to those too
5) Dont worry charity bundles don't count! How is Unity going to know what is a charity bundle install? They have 'proprietary' methods of doing so and defintley trust them on that.

They have clarified demo's don't count. There is less chance of the previously mentioned internet cafe issue as it would have to track the install back to the account that owns the game, and thus will know if that account has installed it before.

It's still really odd, as no way to tell when someone will install the game they bought, how that works against previously sold copies before this went into effect, etc.