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TYRVNT 2023 年 5 月 26 日 上午 5:24
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Steam class action lawsuit(s)
I've never made a Steam post before. I never felt the need to, though I've been helped by the lovely people who post many times, so I thank you for that. Buuuuut also, that's part of why I love Steam...

And that brings me to today's rant which I randomly feel the need to write after seeing a YouTube ad encouraging me to join a class-action lawsuit against Steam. It's not the first I've seen, but it's the first one that made me stop and say, "Wait, WHAT?"

Of course, I understand how the world works. For the most part, it's probably just some people trying to make a quick buck, and to profit from our flawed legal system. I admit, I didn't even bother to investigate it further as I simply don't care. However, one thought just occurred to me after seeing it, which is:

"Steam is far from perfect. Valve has much they can improve on, and I hope they do. However, that being said, in today's world, I struggle to think of another company, not just in the gaming industry but in general, that does as much to be genuinely pro-consumer as Steam does."

I had not stopped to consider it before seeing the ad for the class-action lawsuit, but ironically, it made me realize that Valve is one of the most pro-consumer companies I've ever encountered or dealt with. And so, any "monopoly" they may have over the gaming market is not due to nefarious practices or backroom deals (though, of course, it's possible that's a part of it behind the scenes), but because it's just THAT MUCH BETTER than any alternative out there.

Huge shout out to GoG & GoG Galaxy, I love what they stand for and how they operate, I'm glad they exist and encourage people to check them out. But... again, they're no Steam. And every other launcher I can think of, I honestly put on the same level as bloatware in my mind at this point. xD


So i guess TL;DR:
Today i found it super ironic that in a world of ♥♥♥♥♥♥, evil companies, I got an ad to join a class action lawsuit against one of the ONLY ones that seems to actually care about me as a user, Steam 🤣
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正在显示第 646 - 660 条,共 1,048 条留言
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 7:18 
引用自 WolfEisberg
引用自 LiquidFlames
The mass arbitration (not class action) by Mason LLP was a result of a developer suing Valve because their commission is unreasonable. The game develipert sued Valve for the monopoly they hold on the games distribution ecosystem. The developer was Wolfire Games and their lawsuit won. The mass arbitration is just the end result of that lawsuit. Wolfire Games basically said that you either pay Valve their ridiculous commission or your game dies because it's not listed on Steam. That isn't fair to anyone and the judge agreed. So, now that the lawsuit is finished, anyone who has bought games via Steam can claim a certain percentage of a refund as a result of Wolfire Games' successful lawsuit. I am not a lawyer. I just took the time to read everything and verify the sources of the information I read. I happen to agree with Wolfire Games and disagree with the original poster. Valve is *not* pro-consumer and they are definitely *not* pro-developer. This case even has the possibility of being used as precedent in additional lawsuits against Apple and Google over their app stores. They take a similar bloated commission from developers and there isn't anything developers can do about it because if your app isn't listed on the Apple and Google app stores, no one will know it exists. That's why I filled out the form and joined the mass arbitration with Mason LLP.

Not sure where you got your information from, but the lawsuit is still on going, Wolfire and the other developer studio haven't won yet.


They won't win.

As we saw with the Epic vs Apple, the 30% cut is a very standard cut for a storefront. Valve having that for Steam doesn't control the price of the market. Developers are free to set the price to what they want(above the new minimum which would lose them money anyway) and Valve will put it on the store.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 7:24 
引用自 WolfEisberg
引用自 Komarimaru
The lawsuit failed for Wolfire, this is public knowledge, so no idea why you posted all that to lie.

Lawsuit against Valve, by Wolfire and another developer studio, is still on going.


What's funny, the amendments that Wolfire added claims that Valve acquired World Opponent Network in 2001 and then shut it down for Steam. This is false.

Valve had a partnership with Sierra to distribute their titles on WON. While that was happening, they were developing Steam. When they released the Steam beta client, they patched their games to run on the client and not WON. They never acquired WON and shut it down. They literally launched their own service and moved their games to that service.

The next amendment is even funnier since it's based on a claim that a 'Steam account manager' told them.
最后由 Boblin the Goblin 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 7:30
aiusepsi 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 8:00 
引用自 LiquidFlames
The mass arbitration (not class action) by Mason LLP was a result of a developer suing Valve because their commission is unreasonable. The game develipert sued Valve for the monopoly they hold on the games distribution ecosystem. The developer was Wolfire Games and their lawsuit won.
As other people have pointed out, the Wolfire case is still ongoing. You can see the current status and read all the filings in the case here: https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/Washington_Western_District_Court/2--21-cv-00563/Wolfire_Games_LLC_et_al_v._Valve_Corporation/

Wolfire Games basically said that you either pay Valve their ridiculous commission or your game dies because it's not listed on Steam. That isn't fair to anyone and the judge agreed.
Not really. The initial ruling by the judge was basically along the lines of: Valve charged the same commission when it was a fledgling service as it does now, therefore it's implausible that its commission is uncompetitively high, so the claim was initially struck down by the judge.

That allegation only survived into the final case because Wolfire (eventually) made the claim that Valve bought WON and shut it down to force gamers onto Steam, implying market power for Steam early on, which is a half-truth at best. What actually happened is that Valve brought the WON servers for their own games in-house and then moved their games over to Steam. The rest of WON (mostly Sierra games) carried on for a few more years. The official WON website was still up in 2009, years after Valve moved their games to Steam: https://web.archive.org/web/20090227061812/http://www.won.net/

Anyway, at that stage, to survive the claim only had to be superficially plausible if you assume without proof that what the plaintiff is claiming is true. This clutching-at-straws claim was enough to be superficially plausible, so it survived. The odds that when the case is fully decided this claim is going to hold up is shaky at best, IMHO.

I am not a lawyer. I just took the time to read everything and verify the sources of the information I read.
You didn't take the time to read everything and verify, because if you had, you would know the case is still ongoing.
最后由 aiusepsi 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 8:23
Dr.Shadowds 🐉 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 9:44 
引用自 LiquidFlames
The mass arbitration (not class action) by Mason LLP was a result of a developer suing Valve because their commission is unreasonable. The game develipert sued Valve for the monopoly they hold on the games distribution ecosystem. The developer was Wolfire Games and their lawsuit won. The mass arbitration is just the end result of that lawsuit. Wolfire Games basically said that you either pay Valve their ridiculous commission or your game dies because it's not listed on Steam. That isn't fair to anyone and the judge agreed. So, now that the lawsuit is finished, anyone who has bought games via Steam can claim a certain percentage of a refund as a result of Wolfire Games' successful lawsuit. I am not a lawyer. I just took the time to read everything and verify the sources of the information I read. I happen to agree with Wolfire Games and disagree with the original poster. Valve is *not* pro-consumer and they are definitely *not* pro-developer. This case even has the possibility of being used as precedent in additional lawsuits against Apple and Google over their app stores. They take a similar bloated commission from developers and there isn't anything developers can do about it because if your app isn't listed on the Apple and Google app stores, no one will know it exists. That's why I filled out the form and joined the mass arbitration with Mason LLP.
You claim you had read, but you got information incorrect, and basically lied.


If people want full story, read link to case files it all here, and FYI case isn't over it until mid 2024 he still trying to sue, but failing on nearly everything in his case.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59859024/wolfire-games-llc-v-valve-corporation/?order_by=desc
最后由 Dr.Shadowds 🐉 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 9:48
xBCxRangers 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 9:56 
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:
Brian9824 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 9:59 
引用自 xBCxRangers
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:
Yep, when they lose it will be even more ammo to prove to those who like to keep claiming valve is breaking the law or a monopoly. So far their suit is going down in flames and the judge has really been ripping into Wolfire over their frivolous filings
Komarimaru 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:03 
引用自 brian9824
引用自 xBCxRangers
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:
Yep, when they lose it will be even more ammo to prove to those who like to keep claiming valve is breaking the law or a monopoly. So far their suit is going down in flames and the judge has really been ripping into Wolfire over their frivolous filings
Ya, it's embarrassing really. They've lost against every single claim they tried, why I myself said the suit failed.

The only thing they have left to hang on, is if they can prove that Valve controls the price of games outside of the Steam ecosystem(Steam Keys) and forcing publishers/developers to maintain a set price on other platforms.

This claim is because they can supposedly offer a better deal to customers, and make more money, but since Valve controls the pricing(Supposedly) outside of Steam, they cannot.

Which is funny if you think about it. Tons of games on Epic were never cheaper on the platform, even though EGS took a smaller split. Same for Microsoft Store.
Brian9824 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:07 
引用自 Komarimaru
引用自 brian9824
Yep, when they lose it will be even more ammo to prove to those who like to keep claiming valve is breaking the law or a monopoly. So far their suit is going down in flames and the judge has really been ripping into Wolfire over their frivolous filings
Ya, it's embarrassing really. They've lost against every single claim they tried, why I myself said the suit failed.

The only thing they have left to hang on, is if they can prove that Valve controls the price of games outside of the Steam ecosystem(Steam Keys) and forcing publishers/developers to maintain a set price on other platforms.

This claim is because they can supposedly offer a better deal to customers, and make more money, but since Valve controls the pricing(Supposedly) outside of Steam, they cannot.

Which is funny if you think about it. Tons of games on Epic were never cheaper on the platform, even though EGS took a smaller split. Same for Microsoft Store.

Yep, and other games on Ubisoft, Battle.net, etc that are exclusive to their store disprove that theory. Heck like you pointed out even games like Metro that was gonna release on Steam for $59.99 until epic bought the exclusive instead launched on EGS for.....$59.99.

So they will have to explain to a judge how steam is controlling the price of exclusives on EGS, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Battle.net, etc.

Where as Steam can simply explain to a jury that since they don't collect a penny from the sales of games thru 3rd party sites they have a MFN clause which is very standard so someone can't list a game on steam for $200, and then sell it on sites for $30 to avoid paying steam their fair share.
Mad Scientist 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:09 
引用自 Komarimaru
引用自 brian9824
Yep, when they lose it will be even more ammo to prove to those who like to keep claiming valve is breaking the law or a monopoly. So far their suit is going down in flames and the judge has really been ripping into Wolfire over their frivolous filings
Ya, it's embarrassing really. They've lost against every single claim they tried, why I myself said the suit failed.

The only thing they have left to hang on, is if they can prove that Valve controls the price of games outside of the Steam ecosystem(Steam Keys) and forcing publishers/developers to maintain a set price on other platforms.

This claim is because they can supposedly offer a better deal to customers, and make more money, but since Valve controls the pricing(Supposedly) outside of Steam, they cannot.

Which is funny if you think about it. Tons of games on Epic were never cheaper on the platform, even though EGS took a smaller split. Same for Microsoft Store.
People with an axe to grind against valve will often grind it down to the wood in their hands.

Its not about realistic law, realistic outcome, or greedy parties just wanting to try extorting a large business, for some it's getting back at valve for their game hub bans and forum bans by backing things that will never succeed.

They should take more action against people that only want to troll any valve thread or moderation thread, let alone general forum trolling just because sections removed them.
Lily McFluffy Butt 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:13 
引用自 xBCxRangers
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:

Frivolous lawsuits are not something to celebrate.
Boblin the Goblin 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:17 
引用自 Lily McFluffy Butt
引用自 xBCxRangers
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:

Frivolous lawsuits are not something to celebrate.


Which is ironic that they are retired law enforcement.
Brian9824 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:22 
引用自 Lily McFluffy Butt
引用自 xBCxRangers
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:

Frivolous lawsuits are not something to celebrate.

Heh we are seeing a lot of lawyers being disbarred in the US lately over them as a result....
Dr.Shadowds 🐉 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 10:54 
引用自 xBCxRangers
Thank you, Mason LLP and Wolfire Games :steamhappy:
You do realize this has nothing to do with OS being dropped right?
Prof.Jackie 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 11:11 
So did anybody get their "thousands of dollars" yet? :profgenki:
Dr.Shadowds 🐉 2023 年 8 月 25 日 上午 11:33 
引用自 Prof.Jackie
So did anybody get their "thousands of dollars" yet? :profgenki:
Don't think they had started yet, not sure if there date when they're doing it, or if they're waiting for to get as many people in it.

One thing for sure lawyers are gonna make bank when they get their large pay cut from the reward for all the people that took part. As often they either take ~40%, or charge hourly rate $$$ which they just drag things out long as possible, it's whatever profit them the most, the clients get whatever remaining left.
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发帖日期: 2023 年 5 月 26 日 上午 5:24
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