Steam class action lawsuit(s)

[TYRVNT]

I've never made a Steam post before. I never felt the need to, though I've been helped by the lovely people who post many times, so I thank you for that. Buuuuut also, that's part of why I love Steam...

And that brings me to today's rant which I randomly feel the need to write after seeing a YouTube ad encouraging me to join a class-action lawsuit against Steam. It's not the first I've seen, but it's the first one that made me stop and say, "Wait, WHAT?"

Of course, I understand how the world works. For the most part, it's probably just some people trying to make a quick buck, and to profit from our flawed legal system. I admit, I didn't even bother to investigate it further as I simply don't care. However, one thought just occurred to me after seeing it, which is:

"Steam is far from perfect. Valve has much they can improve on, and I hope they do. However, that being said, in today's world, I struggle to think of another company, not just in the gaming industry but in general, that does as much to be genuinely pro-consumer as Steam does."

I had not stopped to consider it before seeing the ad for the class-action lawsuit, but ironically, it made me realize that Valve is one of the most pro-consumer companies I've ever encountered or dealt with. And so, any "monopoly" they may have over the gaming market is not due to nefarious practices or backroom deals (though, of course, it's possible that's a part of it behind the scenes), but because it's just THAT MUCH BETTER than any alternative out there.

Huge shout out to GoG & GoG Galaxy, I love what they stand for and how they operate, I'm glad they exist and encourage people to check them out. But... again, they're no Steam. And every other launcher I can think of, I honestly put on the same level as bloatware in my mind at this point. xD


So i guess TL;DR:
Today i found it super ironic that in a world of ♥♥♥♥♥♥, evil companies, I got an ad to join a class action lawsuit against one of the ONLY ones that seems to actually care about me as a user, Steam 🤣

[Start_Running]

Big Iron Enthusiast They/Them původně napsal:

"To help maintain its monopoly power, Valve uses what is known as a Platform Most Favored Nations (“PMFN”) clause in its agreements with game publishers which prevents game publishers from selling their games on other on-line gaming sites with lower costs, fees, and/or sales commissions for less than the game publishers sell their games on the Steam platform. We believe that Valve’s PMFN clause harms the entire industry by removing the ability of competitive forces to drive lower commissions and lower prices. Absent Valve’s PMFN, competitive forces would put downward pressure on Valve’s bloated 30% commission due to game publishers selling games for less on stores that charge lower commissions. Those competitive pressures would force Valve to lower its commission in an effort to compete on price with its rivals. That would promote competition and "

How do you understand this?

Completely false. The core thing is that Valve only requires one to sell for the same price. Devs can simply lower the steam price to match the price on the other platform.

What drives lower commission is competitors that offer the same or more for less than the current commission. and again nothing Valve does can stop that. GoG, Epic, EA, etc are all welcome to offer more services to developers while taking a lower cut. Its just that none of them do. But none of that has to do with the pricing parity, which all online and brick and mortar stores have.

Basically that 30% commission is akin to the price a developer puts ona game. We as consumers are not obligated to pay $60 if we deem theproduct to be worth less. and so many of us don't. Any service provider is free to charge whatever they want for their services. and what they charge for their services has nothing to do with the pricing parity.

As said. Devs are free to lower the steam price to match. But the truth is, what devs do on the platform with the lower fees is just charge the same amount and rake in the extra dosh for themselves. Epic prioved this quite conclusively with their exclusives.

The Prices of those games were not lower than what would expect on other platforms at launch and since the game was not on steam Valve's parity pricing requirement had no effect.

Or to put it bluntly. if the 30% isn't worth it then a developer will see no downside from not paying it and going elsewhere, or starting their own. What mmany who do quickly learns that the market visibility they get from being on Steam generates a sales volume that more than makes up for the 30% commission. (keep in mind also that the 30%) is far less than the 50% or more cut devs have to give up when selling through physical retail. Perspective is a valuable thing

It's rather funny but the existence of the EGS kinda crowbars that whole thing rather hard. since it shows that there's literally nothing stoping other stores from charging lopwer commissions. and there's nothing stopping devs from setting their prices lower. the prices.. the base prices just have to be equal across the board.. Whether the dev lowers or raises is up to them. Most will choose to raise so they can make more money off the store with the lower comission.

[Obesius The Large]

how is it completely false when steam doesnt allow a publisher to have a lower price on a different platform?

[fluxtorrent]

Big Iron Enthusiast They/Them původně napsal:

how is it completely false when steam doesnt allow a publisher to have a lower price on a different platform?

Because steam DOES allow it, and there are plenty of examples of it, which is why the lawsuit is a joke. you just can't sell STEAM KEYS for less than you sell on steam

[Jago]

To be frank, Steam has a LOT it needs to work on. I've seen so many games fall through the cracks, and Steam does nothing about it. I reported a game that included sexual child content and instead got a warning about community guidelines. Not sure if Steam/ Steam Support is run by pedophiles, as some companies are these days, but it's rather pathetic to see what they allow and are comfortable with on their platform.

[Boblin the Goblin]

fluxtorrent původně napsal:

Big Iron Enthusiast They/Them původně napsal:

how is it completely false when steam doesnt allow a publisher to have a lower price on a different platform?

Because steam DOES allow it, and there are plenty of examples of it, which is why the lawsuit is a joke. you just can't sell STEAM KEYS for less than you sell on steam

Out of our curiosity, do you know any examples?

[Boblin the Goblin]

Jago původně napsal:

To be frank, Steam has a LOT it needs to work on. I've seen so many games fall through the cracks, and Steam does nothing about it. I reported a game that included sexual child content and instead got a warning about community guidelines. Not sure if Steam/ Steam Support is run by pedophiles, as some companies are these days, but it's rather pathetic to see what they allow and are comfortable with on their platform.

Steam isn't responsible for promoting a games for exposure. You believing a game involves child sexual content(I'm guessing you think anime style games are child sexual content) does not make it so. Steam is strict about those guidelines.

[fluxtorrent]

SlowMango původně napsal:

fluxtorrent původně napsal:

Because steam DOES allow it, and there are plenty of examples of it, which is why the lawsuit is a joke. you just can't sell STEAM KEYS for less than you sell on steam

Out of our curiosity, do you know any examples?

KSP was available through their own launcher cheaper than the steam version for a while, so was Terraria, there were other examples given earlier that people tried to handwave as well. Hell Battlefield 1, you can buy it on EA for less because they have the standard edition there but not on steam.



And to add to it, they also fail the argument at the "you have to be on steam to be successful" argument too, EA left steam and was just fine, Ubi has'nt gone out of business with their exclusives, Blizzard games have never been on steam, minecraft, fortnite, ect.

So good luck arguing monopoly when the MOST POPULAR GAMES IN HISTORY were never on steam

[Cylanoid]

You hit a group of gamers with law. Lol. These guys think the lawsuit isn't legit. Even though one of the firms also led a lawsuit against the Federal Government for Camp Legune drinking water.
But you know, nothing to see... Nigerian Prince amd all. Lmao.
The lawsuit is because Steam used underhanded tactics to squash competition. People need to go read before they comment. Seriously why would you post a public comment, using a machine what literally has every bit of knowledge just a click away... and be horribly wrong?! Wow!

[poiu477]

fluxtorrent původně napsal:

SlowMango původně napsal:

Out of our curiosity, do you know any examples?

KSP was available through their own launcher cheaper than the steam version for a while, so was Terraria, there were other examples given earlier that people tried to handwave as well. Hell Battlefield 1, you can buy it on EA for less because they have the standard edition there but not on steam.



And to add to it, they also fail the argument at the "you have to be on steam to be successful" argument too, EA left steam and was just fine, Ubi has'nt gone out of business with their exclusives, Blizzard games have never been on steam, minecraft, fortnite, ect.

So good luck arguing monopoly when the MOST POPULAR GAMES IN HISTORY were never on steam

I wonder why they stopped selling through their launcher then, curious…also weren’t both early access? Battlefield 1 doesn’t count, and it’s not ‘handwaving’ it’s literally a different version.
Monopolies aren’t ‘whether all the popular games are there’ it has do do with marketshare and share of revenue spent. Steam overwhelmingly eclipses other launchers. EA, Ubisoft, and Blizzard are giant development companies, they are irrelevant to the claim that smaller developers need the boost and giant marketshare steam provides to turn a profit, and you’re just dense if you claim otherwise

[Boblin the Goblin]

Cylanoid původně napsal:

You hit a group of gamers with law. Lol. These guys think the lawsuit isn't legit. Even though one of the firms also led a lawsuit against the Federal Government for Camp Legune drinking water.
But you know, nothing to see... Nigerian Prince amd all. Lmao.
The lawsuit is because Steam used underhanded tactics to squash competition. People need to go read before they comment. Seriously why would you post a public comment, using a machine what literally has every bit of knowledge just a click away... and be horribly wrong?! Wow!

What are these 'underhanded tactics'?

[Treb]

For anyone interested in reading the actual filing. https://casetext.com/case/wolfire-games-llc-v-valve-corp-7

[Treb]

Cylanoid původně napsal:

You hit a group of gamers with law. Lol. These guys think the lawsuit isn't legit. Even though one of the firms also led a lawsuit against the Federal Government for Camp Legune drinking water.
But you know, nothing to see... Nigerian Prince amd all. Lmao.
The lawsuit is because Steam used underhanded tactics to squash competition. People need to go read before they comment. Seriously why would you post a public comment, using a machine what literally has every bit of knowledge just a click away... and be horribly wrong?! Wow!

It is a legit case that has been granted in part to continue. Steam has lots of money and lawyers on retainer for sure. It may end in a settlement.

Here is the case if anyone wants to read it. https://casetext.com/case/wolfire-games-llc-v-valve-corp-7

[Treb]

poiu477 původně napsal:

fluxtorrent původně napsal:

KSP was available through their own launcher cheaper than the steam version for a while, so was Terraria, there were other examples given earlier that people tried to handwave as well. Hell Battlefield 1, you can buy it on EA for less because they have the standard edition there but not on steam.



And to add to it, they also fail the argument at the "you have to be on steam to be successful" argument too, EA left steam and was just fine, Ubi has'nt gone out of business with their exclusives, Blizzard games have never been on steam, minecraft, fortnite, ect.

So good luck arguing monopoly when the MOST POPULAR GAMES IN HISTORY were never on steam

I wonder why they stopped selling through their launcher then, curious…also weren’t both early access? Battlefield 1 doesn’t count, and it’s not ‘handwaving’ it’s literally a different version.
Monopolies aren’t ‘whether all the popular games are there’ it has do do with marketshare and share of revenue spent. Steam overwhelmingly eclipses other launchers. EA, Ubisoft, and Blizzard are giant development companies, they are irrelevant to the claim that smaller developers need the boost and giant marketshare steam provides to turn a profit, and you’re just dense if you claim otherwise

This is the reason EA made the deal with Microsoft and Microsoft is buying up any studio/distributor they can. Of course Microsoft's main target is Sony, and they made a deal with Steam as well.

[Treb]

Here is the last update available.

https://casetext.com/case/wolfire-games-llc-v-valve-corp-8?q=Wolfire%20Games%20LLC&sort=relevance&p=1&type=case

[KappaPride[3rdID]]

What's with all the simps lmfao