Steam refund policies (The Last of Us Part 1)

[Dæmon]

At the time it came out on PC I bought and opened the game and waited for a bit, until I realized it was going to take hours on end for the shaders to compile. After 33 minutes and reading on the "The Last of Us" forum I decided to shut it down, because of the performance issues I read about, even on very powerful PC's. My PC is middling at best because of my RTX3070 8GB VRAM bottleneck. I then practically forgot about the game and let it linger in my library. Now, almost 6 months later I visited the "The Last of Us" forums again, to see if it had gotten any better, and from what I gather it has not... So I tried to get a refund for the POS port, but of course Steam support refused, because it has been over >>14 days<< since. (Bought in March 2023)

Here is the problem. When I opened the game the first time, it was ~20% done with the shader compilation @ 33 minutes. So when taking that into account it would've taken over two hours to compile shaders, and THEN I would be able to begin "playing". From what I read - a slideshow.

(It also took 14 days for me(or rather for the developer) to get Modern Warfare 2019 to work properly in multiplayer fx.)

I would've already passed the required "under two hours"-requirement at that time to get the refund, just to try to get the game running >_< how is this okay?

Valve practically runs a monopoly with Steam and you are forced to play many games with the help of the launcher. Your money is "locked" when you add them to your account(presumably because of money laundering and legislation, but let's be real, it helps them tremendously in keeping peoples' money here tied to- and circulating on the platform).

So... where did the consumer's rights go? Never mind the fact that they write all of the small print when you buy something, I am writing about ethics. I know Valve are a company and companies get increasingly greedy and lazy, but where does this end? Games keep getting released in very sorry states and nobody gives a ♥♥♥♥ and it just gets worse every year. Isn't it time that they once again focus on the customer? What happened to "the customer is always right"? I guess that is long dead and gone. I think it is high time to revise both the two hours and fourteen day refund walls. Either that or enforcing release of functioning games at launch. If they release 33% functioning games, I want to be able to pay only that - 33%, see how they like it.

For your information I have only refunded maybe two games in my 17 years on Steam (I don't think I have refunded even one game when I bought hard copies before that), it is not like I do this every time. I have a TON of games just idling in my libraries; like Forza Horizon 5 and Farcry 4 & 5 on my Ubisoft account, which I will probably never open, but at the same time don't mind because I got them on sale. I also have Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky which have used years to get into a playable state. Full retail price for games that don't even work, however, is not something I can accept with a smile. But I guess I will add The Callisto Protocol (also ♥♥♥♥ game) and TLOU to that pile :-D

I don't expect people to band together and cause an uproar, as I know most don't give a fudge about any of this. I just feel like it gets worse and worse and worse and they keep on piling on the bad aspects as the years go by (MTX in general, shoddy releases, bad support for games (technical and general), scams (Kickstarter/Pateron/Early access), thievery on Steam from users by bots and other users, information gathering and reselling) and noone is covering this at all when it comes to the support those practices get on a huge platform like Steam. They greenlight this ♥♥♥♥ and let it transpire on a daily basis. Why?... money of course. But is this the future and "that is just how it is now"?...

[peppermint hollows]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

There - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICGLcxs-N7s Case closed. See how easy that was? Wouldn't it be nice if that were the case with refunds?

Because "removing" a game from your account doesn't really remove it. It simply hides it. That's why it's so easy.

[Dæmon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von peppermint hollows:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

There - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICGLcxs-N7s Case closed. See how easy that was? Wouldn't it be nice if that were the case with refunds?

Because "removing" a game from your account doesn't really remove it. It simply hides it. That's why it's so easy.

No, I have done it before (an early access scam where the developers ran). I find no traces of it whatsoever. You're missing the point, which is that it SHOULD, be this easy for digital products to get refunded and that money wasn't the point.

Edit: No, you were right. That is pretty stupid -.- why would they do that. The game I mentioned above was also removed from the store, so I didn't get to try to add it to my cart which I did just now. My point still stands though. That is how easy it should be. Self service.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von peppermint hollows:

Because "removing" a game from your account doesn't really remove it. It simply hides it. That's why it's so easy.

No, I have done it before (an early access scam where the developers ran). I find no traces of it whatsoever. You're missing the point, which is that it SHOULD, be this easy for digital products to get refunded and that money wasn't the point.

The 2 week period after purchase is pretty good, because once a game's redeemed/key is used, it's counted as a USED product. Despite whether digital goods age or not.

You try to turn a used product for a full refund back to say Gamestop, you've got a 30 day guarantee, but you ONLY get store credit.

[Dæmon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

No, I have done it before (an early access scam where the developers ran). I find no traces of it whatsoever. You're missing the point, which is that it SHOULD, be this easy for digital products to get refunded and that money wasn't the point.

The 2 week period after purchase is pretty good, because once a game's redeemed/key is used, it's counted as a USED product. Despite whether digital goods age or not.

You try to turn a used product for a full refund back to say Gamestop, you've got a 30 day guarantee, but you ONLY get store credit.

I agree on a 100% functioning product digital or not. I disagree when it comes to games not ready for release.

[Start_Running]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

The problem is that it has to be unplayable by design, not just unplayable on their system configuration.

And clearly this is not the case.
The Shader compiling thing is something that is known and demonstrable so they'd have gotten through with manual ticket if it was just that... However...yeah you're not getting a rfund after 6-months m8.

It is not the money in and of itself, it is a principle matter;

The principle is. The game did not perform on your system. You chiose not to refund it within the alloted grace period, or even a reasonable extended period. This is all on you m8.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

I have spent 17k on this platform so what is $60 in that pool?

So. You exchanged 17k for 17K worth of goods. You are owed nothing. The books are balanced. ALso your spending doesn't mean you get special rules. You get the same rules as everyone else.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

And if they are lenient when considering hours used on the product itself. What does it matter that I want to return it even 2 years from now when it is a digital product that has barely been touched? xD If it were a physical product, it would be different. But it isn't, so it is not.

Whether or not its been touched is irrelevant. They fulfilled their obligation back when you bought it. A grace period was granted as well. You are beyond said period. Its yours and neither valvge nor the dev/puibs have any interest in buying it back from you...

[J4MESOX4D]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

The problem is that it has to be unplayable by design, not just unplayable on their system configuration.

And clearly this is not the case.
The Shader compiling thing is something that is known and demonstrable so they'd have gotten through with manual ticket if it was just that... However...yeah you're not getting a rfund after 6-months m8.

It is not the money in and of itself, it is a principle matter; I have spent 17k on this platform so what is $60 in that pool? And if they are lenient when considering hours used on the product itself. What does it matter that I want to return it even 2 years from now when it is a digital product that has barely been touched? xD If it were a physical product, it would be different. But it isn't, so it is not.

Doesn't matter how much you've spent on this platform. Let's say you spend £50,000 on games and then you want to refund a small title 8 months down the line made by an indie company - why should they suffer and be out of pocket just because you've spent big on other games? You keep speaking as if Steam is some independent retail store which it is not and nowhere near.

Even clothing shops have basic return policies so don't expect to get a refund on a jumper you haven't worn 6 months after purchase just because you've discovered a hole in it that you didn't see when you bought it. And that's a far more strict example that what Steam offers in contrast and what you are buying.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Leonardo Da Pinchi:

The 2 week period after purchase is pretty good, because once a game's redeemed/key is used, it's counted as a USED product. Despite whether digital goods age or not.

You try to turn a used product for a full refund back to say Gamestop, you've got a 30 day guarantee, but you ONLY get store credit.

I agree on a 100% functioning product digital or not. I disagree when it comes to games not ready for release.

So what prevented you from getting the refund within the 14 day period? You spent a half hour trying to get it to work, decided against it, and simply let the purchase sit idle?

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

In fact, I have personal experience with the refund system being easy. On my old PC, bunch of my buddies were playing New World.

I decided to bite the bullet and buy it, half asleep. After doing a little more digging, I realized it's for Win10 and my PC at the time was Win7. So, I filed a refund explaining the situation.

Took 2-3 days for the refund to process, but it was seamless and near-automated.

[( ( < < <🤖> > > ) )]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Wolfpig:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ragefifty50:

steam is not known for customer service...

The refund policy is already more lenient than it should need to be.
Otherwise you could not make refunds just because you dont want the game anymore after you bought it.

the refund policy has little to do with steam customer service and being customer
service orientated... again i say... steam is not known for its customer service..

and

refunds - are a consumer law requirement steam has to follow.

[Chika Ogiue]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von lsdninja:

If they lived in a country with more robust consumer laws then as long as the game remains in an unplayable state, you’re theoretically entitled to a refund regardless of what policy is in place. Whether or not it’s worth the effort to pursue, that’s another question…

You're still not going to get a refund 6 months after a purchase.

And if you want to play the not fit for use card, it would have to be not fit for use for the majority of owners, which clearly isn't the case.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

There - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICGLcxs-N7s Case closed. See how easy that was? Wouldn't it be nice if that were the case with refunds?

It generally is.

When you refund within the agreed to terms of less than 2 hours and less than 2 weeks.

[Dæmon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Leonardo Da Pinchi:

In fact, I have personal experience with the refund system being easy. On my old PC, bunch of my buddies were playing New World.

I decided to bite the bullet and buy it, half asleep. After doing a little more digging, I realized it's for Win10 and my PC at the time was Win7. So, I filed a refund explaining the situation.

Took 2-3 days for the refund to process, but it was seamless and near-automated.

I have gotten two refunds total and it was the same process. I still do not think it matters wether it's 14 days or two years when it is digital though. It's not like the key withers after 14 days now is it? Would you care personally if you got a brand "new" key or a key that was previously used if the game works? (would you even know, if it wasn't in use?)

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Start_Running:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

It is not the money in and of itself, it is a principle matter;

The principle is. The game did not perform on your system. You chiose not to refund it within the alloted grace period, or even a reasonable extended period. This is all on you m8.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

I have spent 17k on this platform so what is $60 in that pool?

So. You exchanged 17k for 17K worth of goods. You are owed nothing. The books are balanced. ALso your spending doesn't mean you get special rules. You get the same rules as everyone else.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

And if they are lenient when considering hours used on the product itself. What does it matter that I want to return it even 2 years from now when it is a digital product that has barely been touched? xD If it were a physical product, it would be different. But it isn't, so it is not.

Whether or not its been touched is irrelevant. They fulfilled their obligation back when you bought it. A grace period was granted as well. You are beyond said period. Its yours and neither valvge nor the dev/puibs have any interest in buying it back from you...

Ignoring all the nonsense and grammatical errors, I stated earlier that it is a matter of, among other things, ethics and customer service. What do you know about what I exchanged the 17k for? and who says I require special treatment for spending that money, I was making a point about it not being about the refund of the money in and of itself, but about the principle. If you want to get screwed over even more in the coming years by monopolies and bad practices that is up to you; but I am not going down quietly, just because all of you drones just accept what is placed in front of you.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von J4MESOX4D:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

It is not the money in and of itself, it is a principle matter; I have spent 17k on this platform so what is $60 in that pool? And if they are lenient when considering hours used on the product itself. What does it matter that I want to return it even 2 years from now when it is a digital product that has barely been touched? xD If it were a physical product, it would be different. But it isn't, so it is not.

Doesn't matter how much you've spent on this platform. Let's say you spend £50,000 on games and then you want to refund a small title 8 months down the line made by an indie company - why should they suffer and be out of pocket just because you've spent big on other games? You keep speaking as if Steam is some independent retail store which it is not and nowhere near.

Even clothing shops have basic return policies so don't expect to get a refund on a jumper you haven't worn 6 months after purchase just because you've discovered a whole in it that you didn't see when you bought it. And that's a far more strict example that what Steam offers in contrast and what you are buying.

They still greenlit a game that was broken, without researching that fact before they released it on Steam. The rest you wrote is nonsense and irrelevant.

[BJWyler]

The refund policy is already more than is required, and pretty standard among other game resellers.

You, and only you, opted to not get a refund within the required 14 day period. That is 2000% on you, and Valve has 0 obligation to refund you now, when you felt like getting around to to it. You should have refunded as soon as you realized that the game would be sub optimal for your system. Then you could have bought it again at some point in the future.

Case closed. Simple as. End of story.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Leonardo Da Pinchi:

In fact, I have personal experience with the refund system being easy. On my old PC, bunch of my buddies were playing New World.

I decided to bite the bullet and buy it, half asleep. After doing a little more digging, I realized it's for Win10 and my PC at the time was Win7. So, I filed a refund explaining the situation.

Took 2-3 days for the refund to process, but it was seamless and near-automated.

I have gotten two refunds total and it was the same process. I still do not think it matters wether it's 14 days or two years when it is digital though. It's not like the key withers after 14 days now is it? Would you care personally if you got a brand "new" key or a key that was previously used if the game works?

Then what's to stop someone from playing through the full game and then just refunding it? There has to be limitations to prevent abuse. The refunded money doesn't come from thin air.

I mean, if you were over the 2 hour play limit, you'd likely still be here, demanding a refund, would you not?

[Dæmon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Dæmon:

I have gotten two refunds total and it was the same process. I still do not think it matters wether it's 14 days or two years when it is digital though. It's not like the key withers after 14 days now is it? Would you care personally if you got a brand "new" key or a key that was previously used if the game works?

Then what's to stop someone from playing through the full game and then just refunding it? There has to be limitations to prevent abuse. The refunded money doesn't come from thin air.

I mean, if you were over the 2 hour play limit, you'd likely still be here, demanding a refund, would you not?

I have tons of games like that; where I hated them and haven't even thought about trying to get them refunded. But the difference is... they worked as advertised. I experienced that exact thing with Diablo 4 before they released Season 1. Just before the season started they nerfed it to ♥♥♥♥. In any other game it would've been fine with the 125 hours I used playing it(not only fine but actually amazing), but it is the Diablo series and it is just not good enough. That doesn't mean I will try to refund that, I admit I had so-so fun playing it, I uninstalled and will leave it at that.