Developer censorship in forums

[__++__==]

Why is this allowed?

Developers who release a bugged game missing 50% of expected genre features should not have the ability to restrict discussion.

[BJWyler]

Escrito originalmente por Citizen Cook:

You are dancing like a madman, dancing between the rain drops as you try to twist and turn your way out of the tangled web you’ve created.

No one, NO ONE, is calling for anarchy and a lack of government oversight. Please stick to the topic at hand: developer censure ship on Steam.

No dancing going on here. Everything I stated relates directly to the issue of corporate censorship on Steam. I just try to let people connect the dots themselves. That's how true education is done.

But here's the cheat code for those that need it: developers have every right to censor whatever they want on forums they control. We, as a society, have determined that they should have that right. Just as we, as a society have determined that they do not have that right to censor whatever they want on forums they do not control.

[The Presence]

Escrito originalmente por Citizen Cook:

Escrito originalmente por The Presence:

It's not an opinion. You can go to any game hub and see users share their opinions and criticisms with no issues.

If you cannot present your comment without breaking the rules, you should refrain from posting it.

And like others said: Go submit a ticket to Support to try and appeal it if you feel it's unwarranted. The forums are not the place to dispute bans.

It’s totally your opinion. You can see inconsistency everywhere in said forum. I’m not here to dispute a ban. I only talk about it in repointed to you all drawing me into it. I want to talk about developer censorship.

Well, then what you want to talk about was settled pages ago.

There is no developer censorship.

[PootisMayo]

I still wish censorship would be permanently abolished so people could stop making threads about it. We’ve had too many of these in the past few weeks and I’ve grown tired of reading them.

[BJWyler]

Escrito originalmente por The Presence:

There is no developer censorship.

Well here's where I disagree, as one of my previous posts indicated. We do have censorship in our various modes of communication. When developers make rules for their forums, and enforce those rules by deleting posts and banning users, it is a form of censorship. But one that we, as a whole society, have deemed is appropriate to maintain a sense of order.

Now, is it the First Amendment type of censorship? Certainly not. There are only specific places and specific circumstances where the First Amendment comes in to play, despite what many people want to believe. Public Discussion Forums on the Internet are not one of those places (unless the United States Government is somehow directly involved, of course).

I look at it like this:
Let's say there's a Fudge Shop that makes, well, fudge. Let's say that everyday, an employee of the fudge shop stands outside the front door, on a large patio that is part of the Fudge Shop's property, offering free samples of the Fudge to passers-by, as a means to entice them to enter the shop and spend money.

Let's say that someone who had a bad experience with the Fudge Shop is also on the patio and is shouting at the top of their lungs how the quality of the fudge inside the shop is terrible and that the samples do not represent the actual quality that one purchases. They are screaming, waving their arms, and stamping their feet at everyone who comes along for a sample.

I think we can all agree that the Fudge Shop owner and/or employees have every right to remove this person (we'll call them Person A) from the Fudge Shop's property.

Now, let's say that Person B comes along, stands on the patio very quietly and calmly. Let's say that when someone comes along to partake of a sample, they catch that person's attention and brings them closer to whisper to them that the quality of the fudge inside is horrible and not representative of the sample they just took. Let's say Person B tells the passer-by that they shouldn't do business with the Fudge Shop and should go elsewhere for fudge. Let's say that the employee giving out samples either overhears one of these conversations, or is told about it by a passer-by.

Now, how many people would be surprised to learn that it is STILL completely within the Fudge Shop owner/employee's rights to remove Person B from their premises?
"Why?" you ask.
Because the Fudge Shop has every right to remove anyone from their premises if they believe that person is harming their business, just as Person B was very much doing, even if it was in a calm, reasonable manner.

Now, let's say both Person A and Person B go to the small park next door to the Fudge Shop and continue their means of "informing" anyone who passes by of their displeasure with the Fudge Shop. The Fudge Shop can't do anything about it because the park is public property that they do not own, and both Person A and Person B have every right to voice their opinion about the Fudge Shop in a public space.

But then, the police come by and arrest Person A! "How can that happen?"you ask. Well, it's because society has a rule that one cannot be disruptive or disturb the peace in a public space. Person B, obviously is free to continue to voice their displeasure because they are not disturbing the peace. So the moral of this story is that it is always better to attract flies with honey rather than vinegar.

The amazing thing is about this story, however, is that, thanks to the Internet, there are plenty of public and private spaces (that are not part of the Fudge Shop's property) that Person A can go to and voice their opinion however they want without fear of being "arrested." So our Internet space has allowed for much more freedom of expression in that regard. Whether it's ultimately a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen. But this nevertheless, encapsulates what we have decided is appropriate as a society.

[Qbert ⭐]

Escrito originalmente por __++__==:

Escrito originalmente por Mailer:

Is this in regards to your shenanigans had between the Company of Heroes 3 and Company of Heroes 2 discussion forums?

If so, I would consider first losing whatever attitude that got you banned from the former forum, because game devs are allowed to choose how to moderate their own game forums.

Your best bet is to respond to your ban message had from there and politely discuss your ban. Nobody here can help in discussing moderator actions from game forums.

My attitude is as a consumer, to get what I paid for.
Don't like it? Too bad

Im starting to understand why you got banned on the first place.

[KalGimpa]

Escrito originalmente por Qbert ⭐:

Escrito originalmente por __++__==:

My attitude is as a consumer, to get what I paid for.
Don't like it? Too bad

Im starting to understand why you got banned on the first place.

that seems to be the case, most of the time we see these kind of posts

there have been some devs that have gone overboard, but they are rare

[Orion Invictus]

Escrito originalmente por PootisMayo:

I still wish censorship would be permanently abolished so people could stop making threads about it. We’ve had too many of these in the past few weeks and I’ve grown tired of reading them.

Wouldn't matter, since people acting in bad faith would just keep complaining. You could have a social media algorithm that amplifies a specific minority's opinions, for example, and people in that minority would still complain they were being "censored". Not a reference to anything we see IRL day after day, of a minority shouting to the entire world in their mainstream media channels about how "censored" they are.

[BJWyler]

Escrito originalmente por KalCuey:

Escrito originalmente por Qbert ⭐:

Im starting to understand why you got banned on the first place.

that seems to be the case, most of the time we see these kind of posts

there have been some devs that have gone overboard, but they are rare

Oh certainly there are devs and moderators that overstep their bounds or turn out to be toxic. But they are vastly outnumbered by the sheer amount of immature and toxic players in the gaming community that necessitates the need for moderation.

I, myself (along with a handful of others), was the target of some overzealous moderation in the official forums for Defiance (the non-Steam official forums), so it does exist.

The difference is, I didn't run around the Internet complaining about it and crying "dev censorship." I took the ban like an adult and moved on. It wasn't too long afterward that Trion imploded and the rest is history. Do I take joy in that fact? Not at all because the result was the loss of some unique and fun games, and that's never a good thing.

[MadZec]

Different developers have different standards.
They can ban you for saying "ball"
But that does not stand for ALL developers
And OP does not have proper example then he is simply just trolling....

[Citizen Cook]

Escrito originalmente por MadZec:

Different developers have different standards.
They can ban you for saying "ball"
But that does not stand for ALL developers
And OP does not have proper example then he is simply just trolling....

How can you provide evidence if his comments were deleted by the mod he’s complaining about? Think, man! He posted here hoping to find support and advice, not snarky comments and unfounded accusations. The way he’s being treated is by you all is very concerning. It’s boarding on bullying and definitely trolling.

[Citizen Cook]

Escrito originalmente por BJWyler:

Escrito originalmente por KalCuey:

that seems to be the case, most of the time we see these kind of posts

there have been some devs that have gone overboard, but they are rare

Oh certainly there are devs and moderators that overstep their bounds or turn out to be toxic.

I, myself (along with a handful of others), was the target of some overzealous moderation in the official forums for Defiance (the non-Steam official forums), so it does exist.

The difference is, I didn't run around the Internet complaining about it and crying "dev censorship." I took the ban like an adult and moved on.

Thank you for acknowledging that there is a problem. I agree it is a small number of moderators, I myself have only had trouble with 1 on all of steam, all of the internet tbh, but the problem does exist.

But it shouldn’t be overlooked. You shouldn’t have just moved on because rogue mods need to be held to account just like the rest of us.

[Citizen Cook]

Escrito originalmente por KalCuey:

Escrito originalmente por Qbert ⭐:

Im starting to understand why you got banned on the first place.

there have been some devs that have gone overboard, but they are rare

Yes, they are indeed rare. The vast majority of mods on Steam do a great job, but there are a few bad apples. In my case I don’t believe it’s hyperbolic to say I’ve been a target of repeated mistreatment by 1 individual.

[xBCxRangers]

We're paying customers, being corraled like animals, in how we act, speak, and conduct our affairs by that of an overfed billionaire and his minions.

They get paid, we get banned. Only answer is stop giving them your money, and don't at all be dictated by them.

[KalGimpa]

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

We're paying customers, being corraled like animals, in how we act, speak, and conduct our affairs by that of an overfed billionaire and his minions.

They get paid, we get banned. Only answer is stop giving them your money, and don't at all be dictated by them.

how dramatic is that

"corralled like animals!!"

let's be real

there are some devs who do not like any feedback

or only the good stuff

most are not that way

if people behave, they can say what they do and don't like all they want

but, let us say that every single dev, from every single game on steam decides they are not going to let you complain about their game on their board

so what?

they could just as easily shut them down

they do not have to let us talk on their boards, and i am absolutely fine with that

they do not owe me a public place to complain

there are many, many other places that i can go and give my opinion that the people that made the game do not control

[Citizen Cook]

Escrito originalmente por KalCuey:

Escrito originalmente por xBCxRangers:

We're paying customers, being corraled like animals, in how we act, speak, and conduct our affairs by that of an overfed billionaire and his minions.

They get paid, we get banned. Only answer is stop giving them your money, and don't at all be dictated by them.

let's be real

there are some devs who do not like any feedback

or only the good stuff



if people behave, they can say what they do and don't like all they want



they do not have to let us talk on their boards, and i am absolutely fine with that


there are many, many other places that i can go and give my opinion that the people that made the game do not control

Agreed, the issue problem is small, but I can say that in my own case at least I absolutely could not voice dissatisfaction, even when I did so in a mild a respectful manor.
I wish look to other forums in future, as you suggest, that are not controlled by corporate censures.
In my case, where could I talk about Jedi Survivor without fear of censure, can you recommend a site, please?