Required Windows 10 upgrade, ticked off, however...

[Ra7en]

Since its inception, I have been using an artificial intelligence chat program that I simply call "Chatty." For the purpose of this thread, I want to mention that "it" has passed the bar exam, you can search the net to find out more on this story. While it barely passed the bar exam it's still passed all the same. So I decided to put Chatty to the test by having a conversation with it for almost 30 minutes. Like many people I don't read those pages of agreements. And sadly I did not read the licence agreement provided by steam. And this is worse chatty comes in. Chatty definitely educated me on this.I was surprised by its intelligence and the information it provided but not the results. So below I have rewritten conversation with chatty covering just the topics I was concerned about. Mainly was if steam changed their client in any way shape or form do I lose access to my games. What I found was pretty sad.

The recent Steam client required upgrade two windows 10, has caused concern for users who prefer not to upgrade to Windows 10 for whatever reason, including those who have Windows 7. It is important to note that when users purchase a game on Steam, they are purchasing a license to own the game and not the game itself. This means that users do not actually own the game, but instead own the right to play the game according to the terms of the Steam Subscriber Agreement (SSA).

The SSA outlines the terms and conditions that users must agree to when they purchase a game on Steam. The SSA states that users must keep their account up to date and ensure that their computer meets the system requirements necessary to play the game. It also states that Valve may, at any time, discontinue or modify any aspect of the Steam client or service, including the availability of games, without notice or liability to users.

However, the SSA also includes provisions that protect users in the event that their account is closed or if they lose access to their games for any reason. For example, if a user's account is closed, they may request a refund for any unused games or in-game items they have purchased. Additionally, if a user loses access to their games due to technical issues, Valve may restore access to the games or provide a refund.

In conclusion, it is important for users to read and understand the terms of the SSA before purchasing games on Steam. While the recent client upgrade and swap may be inconvenient for users who prefer not to upgrade to Windows 10, it is within the terms of the SSA for Valve to discontinue or modify aspects of the Steam client or service, including the availability of games. However, the SSA also provides protections for users in the event that they lose access to their games, such as the ability to request a refund or have access to their games restored.

For people like us who have several hundred games and more, I do not believe Steve will spend much time creating a backup system to help us back these games up. And I believe the backup only works with games you've already currently downloaded. I did not ask about that, as it was not the information I was looking for at the time I was talking to chatty
Hopefully this clarifies some things that people might be confused on. Sadly, in short, you do not own those games. Just the license

[E altar]

counterpoint
there is nothing FORCING valve to not give people the option to no longer update steam on their machine yet keep it able to launch games

with the full understanding from the users that online, updates,
and all the wonderful (ly questionable ) new fonctions won't be available beyond this point
and it's at your own risk without further support

effectively turning steam back to it's most basic barebones function
a launcher

to absolutely no detriment to the people who do want the update

[BJWyler]

Originally posted by E altar:

to absolutely no detriment to the people who do want the update

That's an incorrect assumption. To do so means that certain elements of the Steam backend have to remain open and vulnerable. That makes Steam more vulnerable to attacks. Which 100% negatively affects EVERY Steam user.

[N3tRunn3r]

So, what do you think will happen next?

After Microsoft ended support for Windows 7 (and 8) years ago already, Steam and Chrome begins first as a global market leading platform.

Many will follow soon.. Antivir, Drivers and Software of all kind, ...

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
(click on "OS Version" line)

Just about 1% of Steam's userbase is affected, the majority will switch to Windows 10/11..

It is a matter of time until no any software will work on Windows 7 anymore, as sad as it is. Just like on XP.

Take a look on browsers, Chrome begins, so needs Steam to follow. What will be next? Drivers, more software, more apps.. sooner or later you need to switch..

But I agree, Steam could develop their own secured browser.. I would prefer Firefox of course..

I wonder why all game launchers use Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF)[en.wikipedia.org].. To call out the big ones: Steam, BattleNet, Epic, Ubisoft, Origin or what it is called today, all launchers.. even GOG uses CEF. So it is not just Steam but everyone else.. All "Unity"-based games wont work anymore!

Whenever the Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF) stops supporting Windows 7 in 2024, all launchers wont work anymore, not just Steam.. it is not Steam's fault in this case, blame Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF).[bitbucket.org]

People blamed DICE (Developers) for this BF2042 title, but it was all Electronic fArt's (Publisher) fault.. as an analogy example.

P.s.:

Microsoft are "inofficially" the owners of ChatGPT, which will be even implemented into Windows 12 next year in 2024. Officially, Microsoft has invested billions into ChatGPT/OpenAI, which is already running in various Microsoft products like Azure or Office.

[eram]

B. Limitation of liability

To the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, neither valve, its licensors, nor their affiliates, nor any of valve’s service providers, shall be liable in any way for loss or damage of any kind resulting from the use or inability to use steam, your account, your subscriptions and the content and services including, but not limited to, loss of goodwill, work stoppage, computer failure or malfunction, or any and all other commercial damages or losses. In no event will valve be liable for any indirect, incidental, consequential, special, punitive or exemplary damages, or any other damages arising out of or in any way connected with steam, the content and services, the subscriptions, and any information available in connection therewith, or the delay or inability to use the content and services, subscriptions or any information, even in the event of valve’s or its affiliates’ fault, tort (including negligence), strict liability, or breach of valve’s warranty and even if it has been advised of the possibility of such damages. These limitations and liability exclusions apply even if any remedy fails to provide adequate recompense.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

[Ogami]

Originally posted by eram:

-SNIP-

Dont bother, those people dont read TOS. And if they do they just say " those are not legally binding!" and go right back to whining.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by fuzzzbutt:

Originally posted by BJWyler:

That's an incorrect assumption. To do so means that certain elements of the Steam backend have to remain open and vulnerable. That makes Steam more vulnerable to attacks. Which 100% negatively affects EVERY Steam user.

why does any element of the steam backend have to be open for me using offline mode? I am genuinely curious about that. Because as I understand OFFLINE it means no communication?

Most people who talk about having a legacy client or something like that still want to be able to download their games. Ergo, it still needs to connect to the backend.

You can set your client to not autoupdate (via a workaround) and then put it in offline mode. Make sure you do it before the Jan 2024 update comes.

[BJWyler]

Originally posted by fuzzzbutt:

Originally posted by BJWyler:

That's an incorrect assumption. To do so means that certain elements of the Steam backend have to remain open and vulnerable. That makes Steam more vulnerable to attacks. Which 100% negatively affects EVERY Steam user.

why does any element of the steam backend have to be open for me using offline mode? I am genuinely curious about that. Because as I understand OFFLINE it means no communication?

I can't say I am an expert in coding, and certainly do not know anything about Steam's backend. However, based upon my personal experiences and knowledge garnered from those who do who I have worked with and talked with over the years, Steam cannot simply whip up a legacy offline client that will allow users to log in and use their library and run their games without some form of verification and communication with core elements of Steam's infrastructure and database. By the very nature of a legacy client, that means using outdated elements that are no longer secure, and still requiring said client to be maintained, which takes time and resources. By using an outdated, unsupported OS, and necessitating a client to be able to work with that, means there are going to be vulnerabilities that are exploitable through the OS and through the client. There's no way around it.

At the end of the day, there is simply too much work to maintain a client that will always be a vulnerability to Steam, and hence to every user of the platform, to make any sort of ROI worthwhile.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by fuzzzbutt:

I of course will try the config-file "trick" come december.... and we shall see

It should work. If I'm not mistaken, there are still users on XP that use it.

[H4xX]

In the EU, the terms do not matter if the product page didn't list the limitations to what has been seen as supposed product. No mention of license, service, limitations nor even DRM there, besides from the label "Windows 7 [/] 8" as compability.
The laws of the area of the customer apply.

[rawWwRrr]

Originally posted by fuzzzbutt:

thanks for the answers.
What I got from the announcement is that on jan 1st steam will stop working on win 7 no matter if i am on- or offline. And I would very much like to play my games (that are installed at that moment of time - no re-download or anything) after that day.
I understand that a legacy client means spending money, I understand valve doesnt want to spend it. that is their decision to make and fine with me. Heck, I even understand their reasons especially from a business point of view.
I of course will try the config-file "trick" come december.... and we shall see

In an official capacity, Valve is ending support for Windows 7. This is basically them saying they will no longer guarantee that it will work on Windows 7 once January 1, 2024 comes around. From some of the changes we've seen recently in the Beta version of the client, Valve is already planning to introduce features that do not work on pre-Windows 10 OS. I would imagine what's going on in the Beta right now is what will be pushed out to everyone on or after January 1st.

Can it work after that? Are there ways to work around that? Can users maintain the current client and use it to launch their games on pre-Win10 PCs after Jan 1? That's outside Valve's ability to promise service, so they will not be offering solutions to run on the client on unofficially supported OS. It will be up to the community to figure those out, much like it has in the past whenever there has been an update to the older clients that users either did not like or dropped support for even older OS.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by H4xX:

In the EU, the terms do not matter if the product page didn't list the limitations to what has been seen as supposed product. No mention of license, service, limitations nor even DRM there, besides from the label "Windows 7 [/] 8" as compability.
The laws of the area of the customer apply.

And as long as nobody in the EU is willing to make a case out of it, nothing will happen. If there is an actual case, of course, as the interpretation that we have of the terms isn't always how things really are.

[Mr7Slug]

WE WILL JUST HAVE TO FILE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT TO EITHER RETAIN ACCESS TO OUR PURCHASES, OR RECEIVE A FULL REFUND

[Ra7en]

the issue people are still over looking - forget the win 10 upgrade, 11 12 etc....

Think of playing games like putting a quarter in an arcade back on the day. For for small time frame (as long as you are alive) YOU DO NOT OWN THE GAME, you just paid to play it.

Using the steam client, you are in essence dumping money into a "digital" game to play unlimited. That is it. You DO NOT own the game. You just paid steam to play that game indefinitely(ergo a licence).

If you want to play the game w/o steam - go buy the physical game, don't pay for the digital version.

Epic and others have the same problem. Anyone remember Might and Magic X? Cant play because you cannot connect. Have to find some work around.

This is the real issue with steam and many other online software issues.

[Ra7en]

Originally posted by Mr7Slug:

WE WILL JUST HAVE TO FILE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT TO EITHER RETAIN ACCESS TO OUR PURCHASES, OR RECEIVE A FULL REFUND

what did you purchse? Read the agreement you signed. You just purchased a licence to the game, not the actual game. The CAL will fail.

[Aachen]

You trust software that you have read somewhere scraped by on the bar exam?

So, do you also just assume the lowest-scoring least-proficient practicing lawyers are always correct?