I strongly disapprove of steam using chrome browser...

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kingjames488 (禁止済) 2023年6月10日 15時45分

I strongly disapprove of steam using chrome browser...

as opposed to programming it themselves...

it's a lazy shortcut in development and I've always been opposed to this sort of practice.. and people always said "well it it doesn't effect you why do you care?"

ok, well now t's effectng me and steam shouldn't have been so lazy as to have discontinued their own development of their platform and to just pass it off to google.

strong dissapporval.

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Start_Running 2023年6月10日 17時59分

kingjames488 の投稿を引用：
Start_Running の投稿を引用：
Not at all lazy m8 and its not the chrome browser it's the CEF. The two things are not the same.
Secondly That's pretty much how a good chunk of software has been developed for the pastv few decades, especially in the gaming sphere.
ya... and I strongly disagree with the way game development has gone also.

RCT2 is still the best game ever made IMO... and what do you know it still works on modern hardware because sid wasn't a compiler jockey and actually wrote it himself in assembly!

Which game is that?

#31

kingjames488 (禁止済) 2023年6月10日 18時05分

Start_Running の投稿を引用：
kingjames488 の投稿を引用：
ya... and I strongly disagree with the way game development has gone also.

RCT2 is still the best game ever made IMO... and what do you know it still works on modern hardware because sid wasn't a compiler jockey and actually wrote it himself in assembly!
Which game is that?

RCT2? I'm not sure where the confusion is?

最近の変更はkingjames488が行いました; 2023年6月10日 18時06分

#32

BJWyler 2023年6月10日 18時49分

Your disapproval is duly noted. However, what also should be noted that to do so is hardly a "lazy" practice, but one that has been used for many years in many facets of the tech industry. Oftentimes it makes perfect sense to do so.

What I find interesting has been this strange need of calling developers lazy when someone disagrees with a design choice, especially when the results of said development overall results in a functional and popular system used by millions around the world. It has been my observation over the years that those who fall back on this trope do so for lack of suitable facts and arguments to support one's position in a discussion or debate. Ironically, it's that failure that shows where the true laziness lay.

#33

rawWwRrr 2023年6月10日 18時57分

BJWyler の投稿を引用：
Your disapproval is duly noted. However, what also should be noted that to do so is hardly a "lazy" practice, but one that has been used for many years in many facets of the tech industry. Oftentimes it makes perfect sense to do so.

Why reinvent the wheel?

#34

BJWyler 2023年6月10日 19時04分

rawWwRrr の投稿を引用：
BJWyler の投稿を引用：
Your disapproval is duly noted. However, what also should be noted that to do so is hardly a "lazy" practice, but one that has been used for many years in many facets of the tech industry. Oftentimes it makes perfect sense to do so.
Why reinvent the wheel?

Exactly. It's especially strange to take this kind of attitude in the gaming space where the foundation of game design itself often begins with using a pre-built engine licensed to the developers. It's one of the reasons why Tim Sweeney is swimming in enough money to keep a losing prospect like EGS going at this point.

#35

JamesF0790 2023年6月10日 20時00分

kingjames488 の投稿を引用：
Start_Running の投稿を引用：
Which game is that?
RCT2? I'm not sure where the confusion is?

Because a lot of people haven't played Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. The fact is was coded in assembly is definitely impressive but that doesn't mean everything should be. And uh, Chris Sawyer was the developer for Roller Coaster Tycoon 2, not Sid Meier who is I assume who you're referring to.

#36

Start_Running 2023年6月10日 20時19分

JamesF0790 の投稿を引用：
kingjames488 の投稿を引用：
RCT2? I'm not sure where the confusion is?
Because a lot of people haven't played Roller Coaster Tycoon 2. The fact is was coded in assembly is definitely impressive but that doesn't mean everything should be. And uh, Chris Sawyer was the developer for Roller Coaster Tycoon 2, not Sid Meier who is I assume who you're referring to.

thank You. and yeah Assembly is a feat, but it was kinda necessary back then. Only way to Eke out performance . But OP.. Seriously. I know some retro games are fun but yeah We have games that could literally run PCT@ inside them ala super turkey puncher 3000.

Keep in mind back then there also weren't many off the shelf game engines one could just buy.
A wise engineer doesn't waste time reinventing what they can buy off the shelf.

#37

[N]ebsun 2023年6月11日 0時35分

rawWwRrr の投稿を引用：
Chrome Embedded Framework is not Chrome. Chrome is a web browser product made by Google. CEF is an open source project in which to build applications using web code.

Chromium Embedded Framework (CEF) is an open-source software framework for embedding a Chromium web browser within another application. It is not "chrome" in a literal sense, but it is a way of embedding a chromium based browser into software applications - it means we are using a literal web browser, just not specifically chrome.

最近の変更は[N]ebsunが行いました; 2023年6月11日 0時36分

#38

C²C^Guyver |NZB| 2023年6月11日 0時37分

Do you guys really think that creating all these Windows 7 threads is going to do anything? People using Vista and XP made a lot of threads too and Valve still dropped support just like they said they were going to. This is no different.

#39

[N]ebsun 2023年6月11日 1時09分

C²C^Guyver |NZB| の投稿を引用：
Do you guys really think that creating all these Windows 7 threads

I thought this was about using CEF - regardless of OS support, I don't really like the way Steam has been designed... native design is always going to be faster.
They should also break apart the core components so that it can be run as minimally as possible or with all the features under the sun - whichever the user chooses.

#40

C²C^Guyver |NZB| 2023年6月11日 1時11分

Nebsun の投稿を引用：
C²C^Guyver |NZB| の投稿を引用：
Do you guys really think that creating all these Windows 7 threads
I thought this was about using CEF - regardless of OS support, I don't really like the way Steam has been designed... native design is always going to be faster.
They should also break apart the core components so that it can be run as minimally as possible or with all the features under the sun - whichever the user chooses.

OP made the thread because Valve is dropping Windows 7 support on January 1st because it does not support the required version of CEF.

#41

BJWyler 2023年6月11日 1時21分

Nebsun の投稿を引用：
C²C^Guyver |NZB| の投稿を引用：
Do you guys really think that creating all these Windows 7 threads
I thought this was about using CEF - regardless of OS support, I don't really like the way Steam has been designed... native design is always going to be faster.
They should also break apart the core components so that it can be run as minimally as possible or with all the features under the sun - whichever the user chooses.

Ultimately that what these threads amount to - the underlying issue of Valve dropping OS support, which as previously mentioned, is going to happen at some point no matter how Steam is designed. And when that point happens, someone is going to complain about it.

Native design of a core feature is not always going to be faster. That's why developers buy off the shelf components rather than build from scratch. It all depends on the design you want to accomplish. Valve made their decision, as they have every right to do, based on what they want to accomplish with Steam.

It's no different than a developer choosing to build their RPG in a fantasy setting rather than a sci-fi setting. You don't have to like it, but it's their decision to make. All the "what if" suggestions don't mean squat because the decision had been made and Valve is moving forward. Users now need to decide if they want to move forward and use Steam or not. It's not really that complex of a choice, and all the complaining in the world isn't going to change it.

#42

Muppet among Puppets 2023年6月11日 1時37分

When even your browsers leave an os,
it is time to move on.

#43

Tito Shivan 2023年6月11日 2時25分

lailaamell95 の投稿を引用：
you gotta write in direct form to this guy but i doubt it will get past the tinfoil armor

Not even a conspiracy. All these threads are but a passtime until the day comes when all the people who still clings to W7 says 'Ok, well... I'll upgrade'

And if they don't upgrade 'because Steam' they will because the next big thing will be 'W10 or better' only.

As it happened the time before, and the one before that.

Nebsun の投稿を引用：
I thought this was about using CEF - regardless of OS support, I don't really like the way Steam has been designed... native design is always going to be faster.

Actually no. That's why everybody and their mothers use frameworks like CEF in their development. So you don't waste time (and money) in developing from the ground up stuff that's been developed a hundred times already.

If native design was always going to be faster the Unreal engine wouldn't have the adoption it has nowadays, for example.

Muppet among Puppets の投稿を引用：
When even your browsers leave an os,
it is time to move on.

But upgrading is tiresome and scary. And the internet if full of boogeyman stories about how the new system crashes (mostly dated at the early days of the OS) or how it's going to sell your cat and burn your home.

#44