Are Social norms reflected in how online competitive games are played?

[Hiro]

i have noticed a lack of empathy from online gamers, similar to how a person has a lack of empathy for others in the real world, and i wonder if anyone else has noticed this.

for example when someone gets upset in a videogame (not like rage upset, more like im being bullied upset), cause i have noticed it happens sometimes that some people who play casualy get railed by others, and people that want to share critizism of some games are also attacked, it seems that gamers and a good majority at that are rather aggressive towards people both in game and on the internet and lack empathy and or understanding

and another good example is with the new "skill issue" taunt, i dont know about you but usually when i hear "skill issue" its not being said like: "men i suck at this game" "haha skill issue" "haha ayyy"

no it sounds more like people are saying "its your own fault", but its not, some people play the game almost 15 hours a day and same game day after day, its natural that those people will get much more better than others, wile theres people like me that dont play that much, we want to enjoy the game but instead we are met by violent competitiveness, and when we want the developers to make the game better for casual gamers, we are met with aggressive compettive gamers that insult us because "we dont try hard enough", heard that one before? cause i have

when someone comments about a homeless person, its always said that "they dont try hard enough" specialy in the US, but its been literally proven that a lot of times homeless people even have college diplomas

either way thats not the focus of the discussion

the idea is that people also say that homeless people are lazy, that they dont "try hard enough" and the same is said in gaming, with gamers saying that people that arent that good at the game dont try hard enough, but its not that we dont try ahrd enough, its that we dont have the same time you do and/or patience to constantly play a game for hours on end, with the sole purpose of wining

we usually dont want to make things worse for the other players, we just wanna have a chance to play and feel victorious too, an amount of success after a long day of tiring depressing work, and then again this gamers then say

"just play something else", this seems rather similar to "just quit"

now this two are a little similar, some people actively love the mechanics of online games, they are usually more fun than other games for some people, and telling someone to "play something else" its rather rude

and so thats why i continue to wonder, if the way we aggresively see the world is affecting how we see videogames and is in a way hurting us mentally both outside and inside the internet

this is my personal opinion but i do notice that there are gamers that dont really take shi- talk well, maybe you have noticed this?

[Crazy Tiger]

Първоначално публикувано от Janker:

Първоначално публикувано от Slav Mcgopnik:

Not that people should allow excessive rage to consume them to the point of being a problem, of course, but some upset can be justified depending on the circumstance.

Therein lies the problem: they see "competitiveness" as an excuse to be toxic etc.

Being toxic is completely inexcusable.

It really isn't. It takes more of a person to be calm under pressure and accept defeat as a learning experience, while giving it your all.

It seems that is really too hard for some people, so they resort to being toxic so and sos and spiteful if they lose, when they really shouldn't be and show some more maturity.

Agreed. People being insufferable, toxic arses is why I stopped playing multiplayer over a decade ago. Not just when they lose, but also when the team still wins. It's amazing how people even then are absolute jerks.

It's fine if you want to win. It's not fine if you insult me just because I don't play the way you exactly want.

[Hiro]

yea, im glad this discussion got some people to converse about this topic, i guess in the end it might just be me

[Rin]

Narcissism and narcissistic behavior spreads the more humans are on the planet and obviously the more it is accepted in a society. In a competitive scene like with e/sports, if everyone was an extreme narcissist, you'd end up like how MOBAs (excluding HOTS because it was more team focused) are.

You can even see that being reflected IRL as well where such behavior is normalized, like in East Asia, but more specifically China due to the the Confucianism mind thought. Sadly this often leads to nowhere and you are wholly dependent on others for actual progress. I mean have you ever seen Chinese football players try actual team-play? Well guess why that doesn't work out (see what I mentioned earlier).

To put it simply everyone are on their own, being on whatever lane happens to be solo carry (I forgot which one that is as I stopped playing MOBAs years ago). Now with football you need actual coordination but when you have MOBA logic mixed in you get the result you'd expect.

TLDR: Everyone ends up thinking about themselves which reflects on their social and mental behavior as technology progresses which often leads to people going in a hard way about themselves since they no longer have to "simply survive".
When there's zero consequences (not many are born, thought nor grow up with critical thinking/consequences as a result) this often leads to a societal collapse in the long run.

Imagine someone is drowning, being run over or a building is on fire, well guess what, everyone are just gonna commit to the bystander effect and do nothing else. You can even see this happening right now btw.

We are an idea and consequence based species but if you remove the later you're gonna see some bad things real fast. (hint: we already do)

[Lamundari]

Първоначално публикувано от Alice:

Definitely gamers who lack empathy, and some who are so nit-picky that you'll never be good enough in their eyes regardless of what you do. Oh the stories I have lol. I think support classes, in particular, are the target of a lot of rage lol. And if they sense that you're lower status in some way, regardless of performance.

But most people are reasonable. There are plenty of kind, empathetic, relaxed, generous players, but I think the few "overzealous" ones stand out.

Edit: Some of those players who "lack empathy" could also just be having a bad day, and that they're normally pretty nice.

You brought up a good point about people havin a bad day. Sometimes after a whole day of losing games back to back, some people just get very annoyed and frustrated, and lash out ... But you're gonna have a hard time knowing if that's the case or that's how they usually are.

[Zeuslander™]

Първоначално публикувано от Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

This is the internet, you run into all kinds of people, some can be good, some are bad, some has problems, some don't, and so on.

Yes some people help others in some ways, while some may try to harm, or upset others. This isn't a gamer issue, as it beyond just gamers, it's everyone involved so even if game, or not it doesn't matter it the interaction, and communication what affects others.

Everyone has their own opinion, their own sense of humor, compassion, empathy, and so on. This is how the world been, even before video games exist that why it's not just gamers, but also fact some people are just toxic, and some are not, some people may be toxic because of hype, but truely we're all toxic as we all done mean things at some point. Some people may mean their rude things they say, and some won't, some want to break the ice, and lighten the mood, or so on, but here the problem, no one wants to always walk on egg shells, people rather stomp them, and enjoy their time instead of being force to consider of others, and it understandable not everyone want to be someone emotional supporter, or therapist, as maybe they have their own problems as well, or just tired of it, and wants to enjoy their time instead of worrying about someone feelings. That why not everything is black, and white, there always colours of all kinds of people in the world, and people that are overly sensitive will have to learn to toughen up, and don't expect others or baby them, or think the world revolves around them when it doesn't, so they have to learn over time it better to not let others affect you, and if need friends, actually get involved with others, if others want to get involved with you, take the chance to get involved so can make new friends, don't have to friend everyone, nor have to friend with people don't like.

well said! i agree with this, and worse comes to worst unlike in real life you can always mute somone if they are going overboard.

[kitt]

Първоначално публикувано от Janker:

Първоначално публикувано от Slav Mcgopnik:

Not that people should allow excessive rage to consume them to the point of being a problem, of course, but some upset can be justified depending on the circumstance.

Therein lies the problem: they see "competitiveness" as an excuse to be toxic etc.

Being toxic is completely inexcusable.

It really isn't. It takes more of a person to be calm under pressure and accept defeat as a learning experience, while giving it your all.

It seems that is really too hard for some people, so they resort to being toxic so and sos and spiteful if they lose, when they really shouldn't be and show some more maturity.

everyone has a different definition of what "toxic" is.

some people don't care if you insult them others wet their pants if you say that they should stop feeding.


hence every rule about not being toxic is useless because its a subjective as hell "feeling" and not measurable by any means.
Obviously if you insult people by calling them names etc its pretty obvious but as I said people also throw the word "toxic" around for literally anything.






I could call it toxic to run around and "Jester" Award my posts (people still think I care about it?) .. same thing, some think its toxic other don't.. same with online gaming etc

[Waryth]

Okay so here's my take:

TOXICITY

Majority of us are toxic at some point especially in our life. I've been one. If you're NOT one among them and play the saint then you're in that minority that I don't speak of.

I'm gonna speak based from my F2P competitive experience and event base mechanics.

Gaming in particular has "OBJECTIVE". Sadly, majority of people play the game for "fun". Define fun?

Winning the game? Working with your teammates? or just merely fooling around trying to do selfish stuff on your own and affecting the whole team's performance?

It turns out "fun" for other players out there is just fooling around and doing things their way. Sure, they have the right to do that BUT at what cost? It ruins other's fun and mine specifically as well. You play in an online space just to be a butt to others then that's no fun to everyone.

REAL LIFE LOGIC about HOMELESSNESS

I do charity works a lot behind the scene. No matter how much you help people and hand them over a million, they will NEVER spend it wisely. The reality is, yes the richer becomes rich and the poor becomes poorer. Majority of the poor continue their life style instead of improving it. They don't put effort changing their life but instead remain their ill ways.

I would rather hand out a meal to a homeless person than donating money. My intention is for them to eat and survive as a compassionate human being NOT for them to use it for their other means that doesn't contribute to anything.

Let's not forget about the donations being used to drugs or even continue their illegal activities.

SKILL ISSUE

This is the best phrase to mock a newbie at most. Although there are VETERANS who still have 10 IQ and REFUSE TO LEARN. There are dumb consumers buying premium items thinking they'd win but lose to a pro and gamers with high end PC calling out other pros as hackers. Those 2 category of people fits in the "THEY HAVE DEGREE/QUALIFICATION" category but don't have the brains to figure things out. Everyone cheat their way to class even if it means as last resort. Degree is nothing more than a loyalty award for years of service and resilience if you ask me.

I am one among those players who tells others about skill issue. I even tell them want me to show it how it's done?

The answer I get is NAH! My opinion is right where it's at! I did everything they can to persuade or convince them but sadly their ego and mentality just doesn't fit in.

People hate the truth no matter you bring it up. Truth brings problem, worries and stress. We all wanted to hear the good news all the time and most of them are fantasised.

I possess the stats, knowledge and any credibility from veteranship on most games yet the 10 IQ people refuse to listen to me even if I help them out of good will. They will also go a lengthy mile to trashtalk you for being good. YES it freaking happens. I'm so good at the game that they mock me for it.

Of course I retaliate, no questions asked. I put them down on the ground and put them in their place. Toxicity is met with toxicity if the damage has been done. I help people/players in small ways I can such as teaching them what went wrong but their EGO goes through and feel ashamed for being called out for the mistake and think its an insult to them but that's all I can do before going full retaliation mode where toxicity meets toxicity.

[Muppet among Puppets]

I usualy have voice disabled. And dont read chat because i play the game.

Sometimes you meet people in team games who are not team mates.

[BlasthatVGA]

As offline gamer who never liked competitive game, I don't care.

Even if everyone plays online game, beating each other in online session then also in real life, I still don't care.

I play games for fun myself, not to share the fun to anyone else.

[Realigo Actual]

People that played before and play now know it's different now.

Anyone who says it isn't is either full of it or doesn't know what they're talking about.

Games played by heavily asian communities back then were much more like everything is now. Don't know what that says.

[Connie]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.