Forum moderation is totally inadequate - openly racist/anti-Semitic/homophobic content stays up

[medicinezombie]

Despite clearly filtering posts to make sure they don't contain harmful links...and checking if the link is a Steam page link....

Posts containing blatantly racist content stays up usually forever.

There is no excuse for this! Steam checks posts for harmful links, checks posts for "swear words" but open, blatant racism is fine and stays even when flagged.

Often, comments pushing back on blatant, overt racism are deleted/moderated before the racism is, if it happens at all.

I am personally a lot less interested in spending money in Steam now because I am tired of hate speech, which Steam seems to be FOSTERING by allowing way way too harmful content to stay up, forever.

[Mad Scientist]

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Or you can just ignore rthem and don't give them any thought...
I mean the fact that you see this as a win or lose scenario kinda says you're as much up for a fight as they are.

Report them, Ignore them, and Forget them.

win or lose isn't exactly what is going on, but forcing me to read hate speech is not something I find acceptable.

I can't just ignore it, even if you can, and if you aren't bothered, that's fine. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone here per se, I understand the futility of this.

But if a Valve employee DOES see that there are several people at least who are going to spend less $$$ because of this, they MIGHT care and do something to make things less bad

Wanting to spend less on the platform because of a users action that doesn't sell games as a Developer is not logical.

If you don't like what they post and the thread or post is against the rules, that's why the mantra is "Report, Move On". You can also block them so if they make a thread (that no one is forced to read), it'll show up as "Topic by a blocked user", so you have that warning before clicking on a topic they made if they have a habit of making content that's against the rules.

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

If they said this stuff in person in the USA, they would be arrested.

You don't get arrested for saying things people don't like in the usa. Only certain politically sided areas sometimes do that, but if it's not unlawful, arrest for speech is a constitutional violation that tends to make the person arrested rich, in which you make someone saying something you don't like rich and have a level of fame due to news coverage.

Take the man arrested recently for swearing on his own property, he has a federal constitutional lawsuit. When an officer uses their own bias or others bias to arrest people, that doesn't make it legal or justified. People cannot be arrested for perceived offenses nor speech one doesn't like, and certain speech in the usa while if not liked nor moral, if not unlawful, cannot be the reason to arrest someone. They have to actually be breaking a law.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Mad Scientist の投稿を引用：

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

win or lose isn't exactly what is going on, but forcing me to read hate speech is not something I find acceptable.

I can't just ignore it, even if you can, and if you aren't bothered, that's fine. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone here per se, I understand the futility of this.

But if a Valve employee DOES see that there are several people at least who are going to spend less $$$ because of this, they MIGHT care and do something to make things less bad

Wanting to spend less on the platform because of a users action that doesn't sell games as a Developer is not logical.

If you don't like what they post and the thread or post is against the rules, that's why the mantra is "Report, Move On". You can also block them so if they make a thread (that no one is forced to read), it'll show up as "Topic by a blocked user", so you have that warning before clicking on a topic they made if they have a habit of making content that's against the rules.

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

If they said this stuff in person in the USA, they would be arrested.

You don't get arrested for saying things people don't like in the usa. Only certain politically sided areas sometimes do that, but if it's not unlawful, arrest for speech is a constitutional violation that tends to make the person arrested rich, in which you make someone saying something you don't like rich and have a level of fame due to news coverage.

Take the man arrested recently for swearing on his own property, he has a federal constitutional lawsuit. When an officer uses their own bias or others bias to arrest people, that doesn't make it legal or justified. People cannot be arrested for perceived offenses nor speech one doesn't like, and certain speech in the usa while if not liked nor moral, if not unlawful, cannot be the reason to arrest someone. They have to actually be breaking a law.

There was literally a lawsuit in Florida where a man sued police for having a giant back window sticker that said "Cops Eat Ass" or something to that affect.

Police arrested him and impounded his car.

The court essentially told the police to suck it up and forced them to pay for damages. AFAIK, he still has that sticker.

[Crazy Tiger]

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

edit: also, that's why I'm complaining about this in the Steam client forums instead of arguing with these racists anymore lol, so I am trying to make them go away without feeding them attention if possible

Just a heads up to manage your expectations in that regard. This is, ultimately, a user-to-user forum. Word has it that Steam devs do look here occassionally, but best to prepare yourself for the result that nothing comes of this thread besides an argument and an eventual thread lock.

Moderation has been outsourced by Valve. The paid mods are generally speaking slow and less active in the weekends. They might improve over time as the actual 3rd party company ups the amount of moderators, but other than that, I very much doubt much is going to change about it all.

Reporting and ignoring sadly is the only thing we really can do.

[medicinezombie]

? Steam gets a 30% cut of each game that is bought on the platform.

If I buy the same game on a different platform, Steam is the only one who loses out. Which is my intention, as someone who is upset with Steam lol

I don't want to get into a debate about censorship, or free speech. Those are different and unrelated topics.

This is a complaint about/request to improve moderation, for stuff Steam already doesn't allow people to post, but does a poor job finding and removing IMO

[medicinezombie]

Crazy Tiger の投稿を引用：

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

edit: also, that's why I'm complaining about this in the Steam client forums instead of arguing with these racists anymore lol, so I am trying to make them go away without feeding them attention if possible

Just a heads up to manage your expectations in that regard. This is, ultimately, a user-to-user forum. Word has it that Steam devs do look here occassionally, but best to prepare yourself for the result that nothing comes of this thread besides an argument and an eventual thread lock.

Moderation has been outsourced by Valve. The paid mods are generally speaking slow and less active in the weekends. They might improve over time as the actual 3rd party company ups the amount of moderators, but other than that, I very much doubt much is going to change about it all.

Reporting and ignoring sadly is the only thing we really can do.

haha oh yeah, I do get that sadly, I think I described this as being like sky screaming basically.

But, I have a complaint/suggestion, and this is the suggestion box lol, so here I am

[xAlphaStarOmegax]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

xAlphaStarOmegax の投稿を引用：

It's kind of hard to ignore a huge antisemitic thread against the Jews or a huge thread against Japanese people that happened in the OT recently.

You can just not click on it. Or just not bother with OT in the first place or take anything there seriously enough to bother you.

xAlphaStarOmegax の投稿を引用：

The antisemitic thread was mocking and denying the Holocaust, which was very real. The OP of that antisemitic thread has a history of mocking the Jews; you can see in his past that he would make jokes about the lampshades, shoes, and soap that were made from the Jewish people's skin and fat.

And you take such a try-hard edgelord seriously?

Like I said. Just ignore them. That's how you win. By not giving them the attention they crave.

I do try to ignore them, but Steam needs to step up and remedy the situation, or I suggest that people speak with their wallets, which could help get things done because money talks.

[Boblin the Goblin]

xAlphaStarOmegax の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

You can just not click on it. Or just not bother with OT in the first place or take anything there seriously enough to bother you.


And you take such a try-hard edgelord seriously?

Like I said. Just ignore them. That's how you win. By not giving them the attention they crave.

I do try to ignore them, but Steam needs to step up and remedy the situation, or I suggest that people speak with their wallets, which could help get things done because money talks.

A great majority of the users don't ever interact with the forums. The forums are literally just an extra thing they provide.

Developers aren't even required to use them. They are just provided as part of the package for putting a game on Steam.

[medicinezombie]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

xAlphaStarOmegax の投稿を引用：

I do try to ignore them, but Steam needs to step up and remedy the situation, or I suggest that people speak with their wallets, which could help get things done because money talks.

A great majority of the users don't ever interact with the forums. The forums are literally just an extra thing they provide.

Developers aren't even required to use them. They are just provided as part of the package for putting a game on Steam.

? I'm not sure why you keep bringing up people who don't care about this issue.

Steam needs to worry about people who DO care, and referring to the existence of other people doesn't change that SOME people ARE bothered by this.

[Loot Hunter]

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

Sequence of events:

1) I see an openly racist post
2) I report the post, type in something like "this post is openly racist" in the box

Well, if you've wrote something like this in the report, I'm not surprised it wasn't prioritized. Like I said, accusations of "racism", "sexism", "hate speech", etc are very common and are overblown more often than not (provided there was something offensive to begin with).

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

Steam made like 4.5 BILLION dollarsa year or 2 ago, NOT including things like in-game purchases for CS and other marketplaces, they DO have enough money and resources to do a little bit more.

It's so hilarious, how people just assume that that money is just laying somewhere and not spent on actual improvement of Steam. And btw, Steam has A LOT of issues that are in need of improvement.

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

if Steam made improvements, people who are upset such as me would be happier and spend more money.

At this point, Steam has thousands of games, many of those are indie whose teams don't have resources to properly moderate their forum. To accommodate your "improvement" means to hire thousands moderators, and I'm pretty sure that will cost far more than income from people like you - who are not just coming to forums for technical questions or discussing the games' nuances (that forum actually being for), but wanting to hang out here, who are not just upset but are determined to punish Valve by not buying their games directly. I'm pretty sure amount of such people is pretty negligent.

[medicinezombie]

Loot Hunter の投稿を引用：

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

Sequence of events:

1) I see an openly racist post
2) I report the post, type in something like "this post is openly racist" in the box

Well, if you've wrote something like this in the report, I'm not surprised it wasn't prioritized. Like I said, accusations of "racism", "sexism", "hate speech", etc are very common and are overblown more often than not (provided there was something offensive to begin with).

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

Steam made like 4.5 BILLION dollarsa year or 2 ago, NOT including things like in-game purchases for CS and other marketplaces, they DO have enough money and resources to do a little bit more.

It's so hilarious, how people just assume that that money is just laying somewhere and not spent on actual improvement of Steam. And btw, Steam has A LOT of issues that are in need of improvement.

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

if Steam made improvements, people who are upset such as me would be happier and spend more money.

At this point, Steam has thousands of games, many of those are indie whose teams don't have resources to properly moderate their forum. To accommodate your "improvement" means to hire thousands moderators, and I'm pretty sure that will cost far more than income from people like you - who are not just coming to forums for technical questions or discussing the games' nuances (that forum actually being for), but wanting to hang out here, who are not just upset but are determined to punish Valve by not buying their games directly. I'm pretty sure amount of such people is pretty negligent.

lol, I think you are kinda agreeing with me - you are saying that there are too many posts falsely flagged, so real cases are missed - this is a PERFECT example of the kind of problem Steam needs to FIX, not keep ignoring.

I literally said I'm not asking to hire thousands of moderators. Dunno why people keep saying that lol, probably because what I'm actually asking for is general, not a specific thing. I don't care about the details of how Steam accomplishes it, and pretending the only possible solution is hiring an army of humans isn't accurate.

Again, nobody here is gonna convince me to be happy with what I am seeing. This is just the only suggestion box on the planet that lets randos comment on your suggestion lol

[Boblin the Goblin]

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

A great majority of the users don't ever interact with the forums. The forums are literally just an extra thing they provide.

Developers aren't even required to use them. They are just provided as part of the package for putting a game on Steam.

? I'm not sure why you keep bringing up people who don't care about this issue.

Steam needs to worry about people who DO care, and referring to the existence of other people doesn't change that SOME people ARE bothered by this.

Being upset at something doesn't make what you say more valuable than those that aren't.

[Boblin the Goblin]

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

Loot Hunter の投稿を引用：

Well, if you've wrote something like this in the report, I'm not surprised it wasn't prioritized. Like I said, accusations of "racism", "sexism", "hate speech", etc are very common and are overblown more often than not (provided there was something offensive to begin with).



It's so hilarious, how people just assume that that money is just laying somewhere and not spent on actual improvement of Steam. And btw, Steam has A LOT of issues that are in need of improvement.


At this point, Steam has thousands of games, many of those are indie whose teams don't have resources to properly moderate their forum. To accommodate your "improvement" means to hire thousands moderators, and I'm pretty sure that will cost far more than income from people like you - who are not just coming to forums for technical questions or discussing the games' nuances (that forum actually being for), but wanting to hang out here, who are not just upset but are determined to punish Valve by not buying their games directly. I'm pretty sure amount of such people is pretty negligent.

lol, I think you are kinda agreeing with me - you are saying that there are too many posts falsely flagged, so real cases are missed - this is a PERFECT example of the kind of problem Steam needs to FIX, not keep ignoring.

I literally said I'm not asking to hire thousands of moderators. Dunno why people keep saying that lol, probably because what I'm actually asking for is general, not a specific thing. I don't care about the details of how Steam accomplishes it, and pretending the only possible solution is hiring an army of humans isn't accurate.

Again, nobody here is gonna convince me to be happy with what I am seeing. This is just the only suggestion box on the planet that lets randos comment on your suggestion lol

It isn't a suggestion box, it's a suggestion forum.

To achieve what you want would require hiring thousands of moderators since you want a constant monitoring of the forums. You don't have to be happy with that you see. You should understand that unless they completely shut down the forums, you will always see it in one way or another.

[medicinezombie]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

? I'm not sure why you keep bringing up people who don't care about this issue.

Steam needs to worry about people who DO care, and referring to the existence of other people doesn't change that SOME people ARE bothered by this.

Being upset at something doesn't make what you say more valuable than those that aren't.

? If you don't visit the forums, I guess I don't see the value in opinions on the state of the forums lol. I feel like that's reasonable. And plenty of people stay away because they know its a cesspit.

[medicinezombie]

SlowMango の投稿を引用：

medicinezombie の投稿を引用：

lol, I think you are kinda agreeing with me - you are saying that there are too many posts falsely flagged, so real cases are missed - this is a PERFECT example of the kind of problem Steam needs to FIX, not keep ignoring.

I literally said I'm not asking to hire thousands of moderators. Dunno why people keep saying that lol, probably because what I'm actually asking for is general, not a specific thing. I don't care about the details of how Steam accomplishes it, and pretending the only possible solution is hiring an army of humans isn't accurate.

Again, nobody here is gonna convince me to be happy with what I am seeing. This is just the only suggestion box on the planet that lets randos comment on your suggestion lol

It isn't a suggestion box, it's a suggestion forum.

To achieve what you want would require hiring thousands of moderators since you want a constant monitoring of the forums. You don't have to be happy with that you see. You should understand that unless they completely shut down the forums, you will always see it in one way or another.

literally not what I'm asking for, please read more carefully SlowMango

[Loot Hunter]

xAlphaStarOmegax の投稿を引用：

Loot Hunter の投稿を引用：

Considering that "hate speech" is usually a stand-in term for "statements that contradict my pure self-righteous and always correct views" - good riddance. People like you don't buy much anyway. If anything at all.

It's crazy that people gave you awards when it seems like you are implying that hate speech doesn't exist.

For something to exist that something should be properly defined. And "hate speech" isn't properly defined.

Yes, insults exist. And there are people who insult other people based on race, culture, or any other characteristics. But lumping them together only makes things more ambiguous and convoluted.

xAlphaStarOmegax の投稿を引用：

Yeah, I agree it can get tossed around way too much, but racism unfortunately exists. Just a couple days ago, there was an antisemitic thread in the OT that stayed up for at least a day. Then yesterday, there was a thread mocking the Japanese people.

And all the Russian people get the middle finger not just from random people but from entire corporations simply because their government decided to restore some "USSR glory". Well, what can I say? Tough sh*t!

And just to be clear - I'm not saying that insults, harassment, and bullying (on the basis of race or otherwise) shouldn't be punished. They should but not for the price of turning Steam into the USSR. I'm pretty sure one day of slur hanging on some backwater indie game forum won't kill anyone. So don't just run around claiming that KKK is going to linch thousands of black people because some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ used the n-word on a Steam forum. Ever heard of the tale about a boy who cried wolf? It has a moral for a reason.