"JUST UPGRADE" - except Windows 8 and beyond do not support firewire.

[__++__==]

Imagine you bought an expensive device that runs on firewire - for example a high end audio interface. If you "just upgrade" to windows 8 or beyond, you will come into problems with firewire....hell Windows 11 does not even support firewire........ because Microsoft has basically become the laziest most contemptful software company under the sun. Too lazy and pathetic to kick out a basic hardware driver

Because its all too hard for steam to just greenlight the DRM checks to let people play the games on the software and hardware they originally bought it on, you're now FORCED to run multiple operating systems and or buy new hardware ....

[Muppet among Puppets]

I thought this was about win 11.
But isnt it about someone who sold you an expensive music thing with an apple cable, and then they stop supporting what they sold you?

[Tito Shivan]

Firewalk původně napsal:

This whole Windows 7 debacle is the most overblown nonsense I have ever witnessed on these forums.

It's overblown because moderation didn't take the time to properly merge discussions. So it seemed like there was a lot more going around than a few people repeating the same arguments and going after the same points in lots of different threads.

Like this one, which in reality has more to do with having an axe to gring with Steam for being angry over a game than about the W7 deprecation subject itself.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

__++__== původně napsal:

Prof.Jackie původně napsal:

Who the hell still uses firewire?

People who bought expensive audio interfaces that work just fine

Normally people that has lot of money, for their job, or made bad educational investment with no understanding about the tech because they just wanted it, hence why it got ditched for more wide spread interface that has cheaper cables for replacements, and don't need adapters just to use it yeah big oof.

Can't slap firewire 400 into 800, big oof.. Have to get a cable that specifically made to go 400 to 800, or get an adapter.

Can slap USB 2.0 into USB 3.0 or vice versa, 2x big oof for firewire... No adapter, no speical cable, just plug in that simple.

[Azure Fang]

eqalidan původně napsal:

Cathulhu původně napsal:

And those people usually use Mac computers as those are the de facto industry standard for audio work, especially since some professional software is not available on Windows.

reaper is probably one of the better/best ones, just not industry standard.
but...

D. Flame původně napsal:

Macs haven't been the defacto standard for creators since the 90s or early 2000s or so. Mac was the industry standard for image editing and such too. Now you can just get Photoshop on Windows. Not to mention more specialize options like CSP for comic artists.

macs were the defacto for many things because they loaded a copious amount of ram, they also tended to not crash or have problems as often with compatibility due to limited skus,

HOWEVER

the audio chain in macs is several orders of magnitudes better than windows, and damn near all the audio software, when you run a 'large' project even as small as a single song mix, crashes less often...

god this is hard to explain unless you know a bit about the audio pipeline,

the normal windows pipeline requires between 500 if you are lucky or 2000+ if you are not lucky
asio drivers for windows can get this down to 12-100
drivers form good manufactures can get down to around 8
macs can do 2-4

audio is the one area where macs outclass windows completely, and the audio programs tend to not crash on macs as often as on windows.

__++__== původně napsal:

Logic isn't the de facto industry standard, bro

neither is garageband lmao

pro tools is and its FAR better on macs.

Macs were only the de facto best in the past due to a serial port polling rate error on PC's in the 90's that lead to MIDI devices lagging inputs on PC. Hardware was revised, drivers were patched, and eventually the issue was fixed, but the stigma remained and eventually turned into the ambiguous "Macs are better for audio" fallacy it is today, partly reinforced by the "I'm a Mac" and "PCs are..." mudslinging ads Apple ran in the early 2000s. There are a number of professional quality DAWs that are on PC, Linux, or flat out platform-agnostic, but the meme that "Macs are better for audio" keeps being reinforced by now-moot tradition.

[eqalidan]

Azure Fang původně napsal:

eqalidan původně napsal:

reaper is probably one of the better/best ones, just not industry standard.
but...


macs were the defacto for many things because they loaded a copious amount of ram, they also tended to not crash or have problems as often with compatibility due to limited skus,

HOWEVER

the audio chain in macs is several orders of magnitudes better than windows, and damn near all the audio software, when you run a 'large' project even as small as a single song mix, crashes less often...

god this is hard to explain unless you know a bit about the audio pipeline,

the normal windows pipeline requires between 500 if you are lucky or 2000+ if you are not lucky
asio drivers for windows can get this down to 12-100
drivers form good manufactures can get down to around 8
macs can do 2-4

audio is the one area where macs outclass windows completely, and the audio programs tend to not crash on macs as often as on windows.





pro tools is and its FAR better on macs.

Macs were only the de facto best in the past due to a serial port polling rate error on PC's in the 90's that lead to MIDI devices lagging inputs on PC. Hardware was revised, drivers were patched, and eventually the issue was fixed, but the stigma remained and eventually turned into the ambiguous "Macs are better for audio" fallacy it is today, partly reinforced by the "I'm a Mac" and "PCs are..." mudslinging ads Apple ran in the early 2000s. There are a number of professional quality DAWs that are on PC, Linux, or flat out platform-agnostic, but the meme that "Macs are better for audio" keeps being reinforced by now-moot tradition.

the sample rate along with latency form the audio pipeline is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ on windows compared to macs, even with third party drivers, not to mention crashing that is more common on windows in these programs than in macs, and these are pcs built only to be used professionally and never get any extra programs not associated with the daw installed.

every other aspect of macs has been either equaled or surpassed by pc/windows, with notable exceptions if you run stuff like finalcut instead of adobe/davinci/avid or other mac only software, probably crashes less often than adobe so hard to blame small productions.

not 100% sure because I never owned a mac, but painter probably works on it better than windows, given I have used several versions of it, both pirate and ligit, across every single pc I have owned, and it has never once worked correctly under windows from 98 to 7 (still havent tried it on 10 thought its installed) yet at least till rebelle took non watercolor seriously was the defacto for painting simulation.

[D. Flame]

eqalidan původně napsal:

Azure Fang původně napsal:

Macs were only the de facto best in the past due to a serial port polling rate error on PC's in the 90's that lead to MIDI devices lagging inputs on PC. Hardware was revised, drivers were patched, and eventually the issue was fixed, but the stigma remained and eventually turned into the ambiguous "Macs are better for audio" fallacy it is today, partly reinforced by the "I'm a Mac" and "PCs are..." mudslinging ads Apple ran in the early 2000s. There are a number of professional quality DAWs that are on PC, Linux, or flat out platform-agnostic, but the meme that "Macs are better for audio" keeps being reinforced by now-moot tradition.

the sample rate along with latency form the audio pipeline is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ on windows compared to macs, even with third party drivers, not to mention crashing that is more common on windows in these programs than in macs, and these are pcs built only to be used professionally and never get any extra programs not associated with the daw installed.

every other aspect of macs has been either equaled or surpassed by pc/windows, with notable exceptions if you run stuff like finalcut instead of adobe/davinci/avid or other mac only software, probably crashes less often than adobe so hard to blame small productions.

not 100% sure because I never owned a mac, but painter probably works on it better than windows, given I have used several versions of it, both pirate and ligit, across every single pc I have owned, and it has never once worked correctly under windows from 98 to 7 (still havent tried it on 10 thought its installed) yet at least till rebelle took non watercolor seriously was the defacto for painting simulation.

No one even uses painter or illustrator anymore. The industry standard is Photoshop, which works just fine on Windows. CSP is also gaining popularity, and it also works fine on Windows.

I used a Mac in my art/design classes, and I use an M2 ipad for sketching.

[eqalidan]

D. Flame původně napsal:

eqalidan původně napsal:

the sample rate along with latency form the audio pipeline is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ on windows compared to macs, even with third party drivers, not to mention crashing that is more common on windows in these programs than in macs, and these are pcs built only to be used professionally and never get any extra programs not associated with the daw installed.

every other aspect of macs has been either equaled or surpassed by pc/windows, with notable exceptions if you run stuff like finalcut instead of adobe/davinci/avid or other mac only software, probably crashes less often than adobe so hard to blame small productions.

not 100% sure because I never owned a mac, but painter probably works on it better than windows, given I have used several versions of it, both pirate and ligit, across every single pc I have owned, and it has never once worked correctly under windows from 98 to 7 (still havent tried it on 10 thought its installed) yet at least till rebelle took non watercolor seriously was the defacto for painting simulation.

No one even uses painter or illustrator anymore. The industry standard is Photoshop, which works just fine on Windows. CSP is also gaining popularity, and it also works fine on Windows.

I used a Mac in my art/design classes, and I use an M2 ipad for sketching.

painter is for paint sim, you need the sim aspect Photoshop has nothing on it, it also if I remember right is not as good at point out colors that cant be made in the real world or though your printing processes.

and if you are doing vector work, I don't believe photoshop is competent at that, it WILL do it, but its not a dedicated program for it.

[D. Flame]

eqalidan původně napsal:

D. Flame původně napsal:

No one even uses painter or illustrator anymore. The industry standard is Photoshop, which works just fine on Windows. CSP is also gaining popularity, and it also works fine on Windows.

I used a Mac in my art/design classes, and I use an M2 ipad for sketching.

painter is for paint sim, you need the sim aspect Photoshop has nothing on it, it also if I remember right is not as good at point out colors that cant be made in the real world or though your printing processes.

and if you are doing vector work, I don't believe photoshop is competent at that, it WILL do it, but its not a dedicated program for it.

And what industry is using this as their standard?

[__++__==]

Komarimaru původně napsal:

Crashed původně napsal:

And what is the make and model of said interface?

The stuff they listed, was from 2010. It was discontinued from the Manufacturer for support.

The company specifically said it was due to Windows 11 FIrewire. A tiny fact you forgot.

[__++__==]

Excerpt for those attempting to gaslight

Published Oct 5, 2021

PreSonus is discontinuing support for device drivers for the FireWire products in Windows OS. Changes in the Windows 11 operating system prevent the device drivers for FireWire products from functioning as designed.

These devices will continue to be supported on Windows 10 builds 1703 to 21H1 with the following versions of software.

Universal Control 3.6.66460 will be the last version supported on Windows 10 that includes device drivers for the following products:

lets hone in on that for you

Changes in the Windows 11 operating system prevent the device drivers for FireWire products from functioning as designed.

[The Commendatore]

__++__== původně napsal:

Komarimaru původně napsal:

The stuff they listed, was from 2010. It was discontinued from the Manufacturer for support.

The company specifically said it was due to Windows 11 FIrewire. A tiny fact you forgot.

Source?

[__++__==]

The Commendatore původně napsal:

__++__== původně napsal:

The company specifically said it was due to Windows 11 FIrewire. A tiny fact you forgot.

Source?

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410707583501-Windows-FireWire-1394-Device-Driver-Discontinuation-Notice

Go on, find some weasel argument

[lailaamell]

Upgrade to linux for better compability

[The Commendatore]

__++__== původně napsal:

The Commendatore původně napsal:

Source?

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/4410707583501-Windows-FireWire-1394-Device-Driver-Discontinuation-Notice

Go on, find some weasel argument

I just wanted the source. No need to be so combative.

[Linde]

__++__== původně napsal:

Imagine you bought an expensive device that runs on firewire - for example a high end audio interface. If you "just upgrade" to windows 8 or beyond, you will come into problems with firewire....hell Windows 11 does not even support firewire........ because Microsoft has basically become the laziest most contemptful software company under the sun. Too lazy and pathetic to kick out a basic hardware driver

Because its all too hard for steam to just greenlight the DRM checks to let people play the games on the software and hardware they originally bought it on, you're now FORCED to run multiple operating systems and or buy new hardware ....

Why isn't FireWire used anymore?
When the standard was first introduced by Apple, it supported 400 megabits per second compared to USB's 12 megabits per second. Now, the USB4 standard supports 40 gigabits per second, and FireWire just couldn't keep up. Finally, in 2012, Apple went all-in on Thunderbolt support, forever dooming the FireWire standard.

Have someone sold you an old audio interface that ran using discontinued technology? Perhaps it is time to upgrade your hardware so it conform with industry standards, especially if you want companies to continue to release software you can use on your device.