Questing regarding Windows 7 vs. 10 game compatibility

[Getty]

I don't wish to start a flame war, merely asking a genuine question. I have non-steam games as well (Lords of the Realm from 1994, run on DOSbox. Might and Magic 6 from 1998 run normally, Oregon Trail 2 from 1996, runs normally with a little tweaking, to name a few). I know having the original OS, or an OS that is newer than the original, but still closer than brand new, could help in playability. Will I lose the ability to play any games if I make the switch from Windows 7 to 10? If not, I could download 10 on this system.. If I could, I could make a new machine. Thanks!

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Those XP users upgraded or the vast majority of them did, same with Vista. It will be the same for 7 and 8 too.

[xBCxRangers]

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Out of curiosity (being i sincerely don't know), how many users were dropped on the XP matter? Here only a few years later, by Steams own numbers can be talking 2 million, in addition i suppose to what happened just a few years ago. Andf then few years from now on Win 10.

It is true, the best advice given to me so far on this matter, is "stick with consoles" .

That's likely the best counsel, and i think in this day and age particularly, that's what they're doing, in addition to aging gamers using phones.

Yeah, stick with console if that matters that much to you to throw a fit and want to hold back everyone else.

Hell, im not saying that from my mighty throne. I got a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage computer that probably wont be able to do ♥♥♥♥ in 5 years. But, that's MY problem, not VALVE's or ANYONE else.

Well, thats not what i asked you, but i suppose you just don't know, which is par for the course, being Steam, like other companies may be a bit fugazy, on numbers. Not a problem.

[Thermal Lance]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, stick with console if that matters that much to you to throw a fit and want to hold back everyone else.

Hell, im not saying that from my mighty throne. I got a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage computer that probably wont be able to do ♥♥♥♥ in 5 years. But, that's MY problem, not VALVE's or ANYONE else.

Well, that what what i asked you, but i suppose you just don't know, which is par for the course, being Steam, like other companies may be a bit fugazy, on numbers.

Valve already made the call. These "numbers" aint worth supporting 7 moving forward. I just dont pretend to know better than the most successful PC gaming distribution platform in history.

[xBCxRangers]

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Well, that what what i asked you, but i suppose you just don't know, which is par for the course, being Steam, like other companies may be a bit fugazy, on numbers.

Valve already made the call. These "numbers" aint worth supporting 7 moving forward. I just dont pretend to know better than the most successful PC gaming distribution platform in history.

As i said, it was a sincere question. Not a problem. Its just that we dont seem to have any real data, of how many are being left behind in these moves, of just a few years ago, now, and in the next few years.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Better yet, why not find those numbers instead of asking others to do it for you? It's moot anyway because as I said, most upgraded to a supported OS.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

Valve already made the call. These "numbers" aint worth supporting 7 moving forward. I just dont pretend to know better than the most successful PC gaming distribution platform in history.

As i said, it was a sincere question. Not a problem. Its just that we dont seem to have any real data, of how many are being left behind in these moves, of just a few years ago, now, and in the next few years.

Those left behind are making a choice to do so.

[Thermal Lance]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

Valve already made the call. These "numbers" aint worth supporting 7 moving forward. I just dont pretend to know better than the most successful PC gaming distribution platform in history.

As i said, it was a sincere question. Not a problem. Its just that we dont seem to have any real data, of how many are being left behind in these moves, of just a few years ago, now, and in the next few years.

Even if we were given all the data. It wouldnt make any difference.

If you want to be mad about Windows 7 being dropped. Start by being mad at Microsoft. They are the ones who killed it. Not Valve.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

And that's what has been told to them this entire time, but they never put the blame in the right place.

Wn 7 EOL Jan 2020
Steam Win7 EOS Jan 2024

Who ended support first? In fact Valve should get kudos.

[Azure Fang]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Azure Fang eredeti hozzászólása:

Then you shouldn't even be running Win7. But... it is, and thus is CAN handle Win10 as they have the exact same resource footprint.

OR... and here's the kicker... you COULD spend a fraction of the cost of the next console you'd buy to get some RAM and a new HDD (I'm going to assume you're on DDR3 by these statements, so 32GB and a 2TB can be gotten, easily, for ~$100 total: I'll even do the work[www.amazon.com] for you[www.amazon.com]) and have a machine that will be worth more than another $300+ console that you'll be replacing in a few years.

Also, funny, I don't hear you complaining about the Wii shop, DS shop, and PS3 shop shutdowns that DO permanently lock people out of their purchases.

Right dude look, Win 10 (if it was even possible) would only buy us a couple more years at this rate anyway. And my parts they say are "built in" which is to say i cannot put in those parts you speak.

And you don't hear me complaining about PS3, or 360, or even Atari 1977, being i can STILL play my games even though they stopped supporting it.

I don't give two wits about Win 7. Its being able to play my GAMES, as i do, from Atari thru PS1, 2, PS3, 360, Xbox One and everything in between.

You literally stated that your system can run Win7, albeit poorly. Due to the fact that Win10 has the same resource footprint and requirements, you have effectively confirmed that you have the capability to upgrade and keep playing your games as it will run exactly the same as Win7. The only thing stopping you is you, and you've now confirmed this fact yourself.

Yes, upgrading to Win10 will only buy a couple years. Good thing there's a TPM bypass and Win11 has been confirmed to run perfectly on any (x64) hardware that Win10 supports. I only use 10 in these arguments because it's the most casually accessible option at the moment. Alternatively, you could multiboot with Linux and be done with it, especially as Proton makes sweeping strides in improved compatibility.

As to the console zealotry, you're wrong. On the Vita and (soon to be) PS3, there are many games, especially PSN purchases, that require periodic license checks. With PSN disabled, those games lapse and can never be played again without tinkering (sound familiar?). With everything else, the moment you lose the storage media on which those games are installed (all NV media that wears relatively rapidly, minus the 360 drive, I have a section of my wall dedicated to dead MMC, SD, Flash, etc. cards), you lose those games unless you... oh my... backed them up on a computer that you claim your family doesn't need.

Also, you fail to address the logistics of owning so much aging hardware. I own original hardware for:

• NES (original spring-load with orange zapper and licensed turbo controllers with headphone routing jack)
  
• SNES (original, with multi-tap and Super Scope 6 w/ rubber eye guard still intact)
  
• N64 (with all, ALL, US-available accessories)
  
• GC (with network adapter, Super GBA, and more GBA link cables than I care to mention)
  
• Wii (with ALL US-available accessories, even the mic)
  
• PS1 (original with I/O port and a PocketStation)
  
• PS2 (original phat, with network adapter, multi-tap, and Trancevibrator, yes I'm serious)
  
• PS3 ("golden lamb" 60GB with card slots, 4 USB, and hardware backward compat. as well as Move and Eye accessories and a full Eye of Judgement series one card set)
  
• PS4
  
• Xbox (halo edition)
  
• Xbox 360 (halo edition)
  
• GB (all models)
  
• GBA (all models and all US-available accessories)
  
• PSP (1000 with service battery and 2000 original)
  
• DS (original)
  
• DSI (original with GB socket and removeable battery)
  
• Vita

To start, I don't have room for all of these systems and there's very little backwards compatibility going on. Even if I could have all of these out at once, one input selector can only support so many systems on a single display. Being able to make use of a wide hardware library like that takes a LOT of living space... unless you legally back up your games and play them on emulators on your *gasp* computer.

Then lets get to aging...

• NES: Spring shelf cracked a few years back. Would be a problem if the contact corrosion from being a 36 year old system hadn't gotten so bad that the exposed copper on some of the pins wore away completely. And that's not even mentioning the batteries in the cartridges.
  
• SNES: Locking teeth succumbed to plastic brittling some years ago and cartridges, when they even work thanks to battery death (Good Night, my sweet SimAnt) or contact corrosion, don't lock in place and walking near the console while running is enough to jar them loose.
  
• N64: Cartridge battery death, contact corrosion.
  
• GC: Optical drive lens decay. Still works, but takes a few reboots. Impending disc rot.
  
• Wii: Shop closure, game patches no longer available, SD card died taking all purchases with it.
  
• PS1: Disc label decay. All PS1 games will die at a rate about equal to magnetic media death because they used unstable ink and reflective labels instead of baking the data layer into the plastic. Otherwise, impending disc rot.
  
• PS2: Double-density disc rot. Phat optical drive is susceptible to progressive and eventually permanent decalibration from reading late-gen discs (Rogue Galaxy is a prime example). Also memory card rot, but I have a HDD on the net adapter routing saves with a bootloader. Impending disc rot.
  
• PS3: Stable until store shutdown. Impending disc rot.
  
• PS4: Stable until inevitable store shutdown. DRM-based discs will be unplayable. Impending disc rot.
  
• Xbox: Stable, surprisingly. Impending disc rot.
  
• Xbox 360: Red-ring'd years ago, right after Microsoft stopped honoring warranties completely. Impending disc rot.
  
• GB-family: Contact corrosion, cartridge battery death.
  
• GBA-family: Contact corrosion, cartridge battery death, backlight failure and hinge cracking on SP.
  
• PSP-family: Lithium battery decay, storage media failure, UMDs are a fragility nightmare, store closure. Impending disc rot.
  
• DS: Stable. Impending contact corrosion.
  
• DSi: Stable, though store closure. Impending contact corrosion.
  
• Vita: Storage media failure, store closure, impending contact corrosion.

Your precious consoles are not infallible and will never be. The media on which the games are stored will eventually rot on one way or another, comparable to the loss of a harddrive storing offline installers. But at least I can play ~90% of my purchased console library on my computer as I bought the hardware to dump my cartridges, shopped appropriate disc drives to support ISOing my GC, Wii, and PS4 games, modded my handhelds to back up my cards, and all I have left is to wait for PS4 emulation to take off to care about its discs. The rest unmentioned I can run from disc or easily ripped ISO on the same computer that I can run games from any era of Windows and DOS, among others.

That, as well as the store closures literally barring people from accessing their purchases while Nintendo has the gall to sell new copies of the games on each successive console, is why I gave up on consoles. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are living examples of what you're complaining about, yet you're willing to pay them hundreds of dollars every few years for the newest hotness while throwing a tantrum that Valve wants you to upgrade for free to continue to access their store. Take a step back, look at all of that wasted shelf space you've claimed (considering over your posts you claim to have numerous unnecessary PC builds among your consoles), and realize that you could be running all of that on one, well-built PC using a fraction of the space and a fraction of the historical cost.

[xBCxRangers]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| eredeti hozzászólása:

Better yet, why not find those numbers instead of asking others to do it for you? It's moot anyway because as I said, most upgraded to a supported OS.

Well being it seems you have the answers and excuses for everything else, yet don't seem to have the answer there.. Which tells me, we don't know the numbers, and Steam likely not forthcoming on them.

RELEASE the numbers, Mr Newell

[Thermal Lance]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

C²C^Guyver |NZB| eredeti hozzászólása:

Better yet, why not find those numbers instead of asking others to do it for you? It's moot anyway because as I said, most upgraded to a supported OS.

Well being it seems you have the answers and excuses for everything else, yet don't seem to have the answer there.. Which tells me, we don't know the numbers, and Steam likely not forthcoming on them.

RELEASE the numbers, Mr Newell

Your numbers are a red herring anyway. Having the data wont change the fact that Steam is dropping support for 7.

Valve already made the call. In what magical world would having the data change anything or even be useful beyond pure curiosity.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

There wont be a legacy option.

You got the client which is a glorified web browser for lack of a better word. And you got the stuff on Steam end. What happen is that the changes made on Steam's end are NOT compatible with 7. It makes zero sense to pretend to support something when they fully know its going to break eventually. So, Valve is being straightforward and giving a heads up before they move with it.

It makes more sense to move toward the future than to hold back with a "legacy" client that will just hog ressources away from the main deal.

This happened with 9x, xp, vista and now 7. This is nothing new.

Out of curiosity (being i sincerely don't know), how many users were dropped on the XP matter? Here only a few years later, by Steams own numbers can be talking 2 million, in addition i suppose to what happened just a few years ago. Andf then few years from now on Win 10.

It is true, the best advice given to me so far on this matter, is "stick with consoles" .

That's likely the best counsel, and i think in this day and age particularly, that's what they're doing, in addition to aging gamers using phones.

I was just listening to Bobby Kotick on this A/B MS matter, and his feeling is "mobile" and phones as well as stream, is the future. Not pc or even console play. That's a warning sign for Mr Newell it would seem.

It was also around 1% just like how it now, the issue 99% already switch to windows 7, 8, or 10. So around a million people basically.

Now most moved to 10, and 11.

Linux is really slowly growing, but rate they're going is still very slow compare to windows that super rapid between 10, and 11.

So end of the rainbow most moved on, more people that join PC are using modem hardware, and OS, people make efforts to fix things so games are not lost to the past, but brought into the future. Console yeah it a dead end you need make sure system stay in good condition, and know how to repair, or expect to pay large sum if it really hard to repair, and physical games is a scarcity overtime, and depend on the supply originally, can affect the after market for those that sell online. Go look up 2nd hand game prices for rare games, you won't believe you be spending cost to what modem game costs, or even more if wanted a physical copy.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

C²C^Guyver |NZB| eredeti hozzászólása:

Better yet, why not find those numbers instead of asking others to do it for you? It's moot anyway because as I said, most upgraded to a supported OS.

Well being it seems you have the answers and excuses for everything else, yet don't seem to have the answer there.. Which tells me, we don't know the numbers, and Steam likely not forthcoming on them.

RELEASE the numbers, Mr Newell

You completely ignored the last sentence of what you quoted. Most XP users upgraded, as you should too.

[MonkehMaster]

Thermal Lance eredeti hozzászólása:

MonkehMaster eredeti hozzászólása:

i see tons of win 7 users asking for a "legacy" option, ie... an older version (right before the UI update), so steam can drop support and win 7 users can still be allowed to play their games.

i know i suggested an old version (right before UI update), with offline mode only and the "check-in" bs removed, which would give win 7 users the ability to play their games, until they do w/e they need to do to get back to using steam normally.

but i sure dont see where these updates are going to or are getting held back.

There wont be a legacy option.

You got the client which is a glorified web browser for lack of a better word. And you got the stuff on Steam end. What happen is that the changes made on Steam's end are NOT compatible with 7. It makes zero sense to pretend to support something when they fully know its going to break eventually. So, Valve is being straightforward and giving a heads up before they move with it.

It makes more sense to move toward the future than to hold back with a "legacy" client that will just hog ressources away from the main deal.

This happened with 9x, xp, vista and now 7. This is nothing new.

they already have the version made, all they have to do is disable the "check-in" bs and lock it to offline mode, nothing else is needed, said people will be stuck on that version, not connected to steam, or getting updates, all they will be doing is playing games from the library menu.

so again what resources are they using?

where are they "pretending to support"?

how would an offline client that never gets updates "break"?

[xBCxRangers]

Dr.Shadowds 🐉 eredeti hozzászólása:

xBCxRangers eredeti hozzászólása:

Out of curiosity (being i sincerely don't know), how many users were dropped on the XP matter? Here only a few years later, by Steams own numbers can be talking 2 million, in addition i suppose to what happened just a few years ago. Andf then few years from now on Win 10.

It is true, the best advice given to me so far on this matter, is "stick with consoles" .

That's likely the best counsel, and i think in this day and age particularly, that's what they're doing, in addition to aging gamers using phones.

I was just listening to Bobby Kotick on this A/B MS matter, and his feeling is "mobile" and phones as well as stream, is the future. Not pc or even console play. That's a warning sign for Mr Newell it would seem.

It was also around 1% just like how it now, the issue 99% already switch to windows 7, 8, or 10. So around a million people basically.

Now most moved to 10, and 11.

Linux is really slowly growing, but rate they're going is still very slow compare to windows that super rapid between 10, and 11.

So end of the rainbow most moved on, more people that join PC are using modem hardware, and OS, people make efforts to fix things so games are not lost to the past, but brought into the future. Console yeah it a dead end, and physical games is a scarcity overtime, and depend on the supply originally, can affect the after market for those that sell online. Go look up 2nd game prices for rare games, you won't believe you be spending cost to what modem game costs, or even more if wanted a physical copy.

Right well you're talking percentages, and if they lost 1% on the XP mattter a few years ago with roughly 130 million users, they lost more than 1 million users. If we're talking now closer to 2%, we're talking more than 2 million gamers. In a few years, another few million.

To say folks would upgrade, if for anything but because of Steam, amongst other much more important matters, is likely a stretch. Which is to say they likely did not upgrade, and maybe folded into console or mobile base.

I mean i think its not a stretch to say "convenience" is what most people today, including gaming are looking for.

And to the extent something becomes "inconvenient" which can be these matters, expense, crashes, hacks, cheaters and other matters pc contend with that others dont, it may just be PC gaming going the way of the flip phone, which even for me in this Win 7 matter, is kind of interesting.

Fortunately for Steam, they only have to contend with Epic and to a lesser extent, GoG, but if they were in the console market given these trends, they'd likely get clobbered.