Getty 11. juli 2023 kl. 18:04
Questing regarding Windows 7 vs. 10 game compatibility
I don't wish to start a flame war, merely asking a genuine question. I have non-steam games as well (Lords of the Realm from 1994, run on DOSbox. Might and Magic 6 from 1998 run normally, Oregon Trail 2 from 1996, runs normally with a little tweaking, to name a few). I know having the original OS, or an OS that is newer than the original, but still closer than brand new, could help in playability. Will I lose the ability to play any games if I make the switch from Windows 7 to 10? If not, I could download 10 on this system.. If I could, I could make a new machine. Thanks!
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Viser 181-195 af 213 kommentarer
C²C^Guyver |NZB| 12. juli 2023 kl. 18:35 
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
Oprindeligt skrevet af C²C^Guyver |NZB|:
Show me where PC's or even Steam accounts are being destroyed.
Car can no longer server the function of driving.

PC can no longer serve the function of playing Steam games.
1. The PC is still fine.
2. The Steam account is fine and still exists and it's still yours.

If you're reaching this far for comparisons, I'd hate to see your reaction to a Steam account that is actually locked or terminated and it certainly doesn't happen just because a user won't or doesn't upgrade their OS.
Sidst redigeret af C²C^Guyver |NZB|; 12. juli 2023 kl. 18:35
Haruspex 12. juli 2023 kl. 18:58 
I'm someone who has used Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, (skipped 8), 10, and 11. I have done upgrades for pretty much all of those. I have a Steam account I opened in 2004, and several boxed PC games from even before then.

There isn't a single game from my entire history playing games on PC that I cannot play on my Windows 11 machine.

Do they all "just work"? No, of course not, but that's just a fact of PC gaming, and has been for 40 years. Unofficial patches, tweaks, ini changes, etc are sometimes necessary to get certain really old games working. This has been true since forever. We have it pretty easy today. Some of you youngsters never experienced the pain of trying to use a custom autoexec.bat file in a desperate effort to free up enough conventional memory to allow Ultima 7 to run. Today, I can just load up Ultima 7 in DOSBox with no issues, or better yet, run it in Exult.

People seem to be more neurotic these days. They're absolutely tightly wound with tension and anxiety. Even if their system is halfway decent and would handle Windows 10 or 11 easily, they're chomping their fingernails off worried about basically nothing. "What if this game doesn't work?" "What if that game doesn't work???" Y'all need a Xanax or something. You'll be fine. Honest.
Sidst redigeret af Haruspex; 12. juli 2023 kl. 18:58
Dr.Shadowds 🐉 12. juli 2023 kl. 19:47 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Harusp3x:
I'm someone who has used Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, (skipped 8), 10, and 11. I have done upgrades for pretty much all of those. I have a Steam account I opened in 2004, and several boxed PC games from even before then.

There isn't a single game from my entire history playing games on PC that I cannot play on my Windows 11 machine.

Do they all "just work"? No, of course not, but that's just a fact of PC gaming, and has been for 40 years. Unofficial patches, tweaks, ini changes, etc are sometimes necessary to get certain really old games working. This has been true since forever. We have it pretty easy today. Some of you youngsters never experienced the pain of trying to use a custom autoexec.bat file in a desperate effort to free up enough conventional memory to allow Ultima 7 to run. Today, I can just load up Ultima 7 in DOSBox with no issues, or better yet, run it in Exult.

People seem to be more neurotic these days. They're absolutely tightly wound with tension and anxiety. Even if their system is halfway decent and would handle Windows 10 or 11 easily, they're chomping their fingernails off worried about basically nothing. "What if this game doesn't work?" "What if that game doesn't work???" Y'all need a Xanax or something. You'll be fine. Honest.
These days there some people that acts either entitle, or self-center ignorant, expecting everything to be served on a sliver platter, and want the perfect experience, or console experience where they don't think, just turn off brain = monkey mode, and expect something to fix all the problems for them/one-self without even making any effort at all, or expect everyone to cater to them/one-self to everything how they wants it their way.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3003460652


Like if we went back to the old days before Steam, I bet a lot of people will whine, complain, and flood the forums demanding updates, and patches instead of having to manually look for any of these things, and apply them yourself, as I know in the past if someone doesn't know anything, and just new to PC they wouldn't know they had to go look up game website, or search for online forum, and try find links to where to get the updates, and patches, as not everthing was offer automatically as how it is today where drivers are automatically downloaded to you, but still have click allow/yes/approve the install of the drivers, and some how there always those few people that clicks no, and don't install the things they need, and such, and complains why something not working, or why there bugs, and so on.

And you be right PC isn't aim to be like console, the experience won't be the same due to number of hardware config, drivers version that are installed, or missing, bios/firmware update issues, and so on, and the fact is that this depends on end user more than anything if they know what they're doing, or not, and these days companines are trying to dumb everything down best they can without taking away from power users because wouldn't make sense to do that, even on OS such as newer, and newer windows they may dumb things down, or pre config things for end user to make it simple as they can. but still requires end user to do rest of the work, evne on linux there can only be so much one can hold someone hand as end user has to learn to do things on their own, and figure how things work to make the experience better overall.

Example there few people I help this year that made full switch from console to PC, helping get old games to run, and so on with new hardware, and new windows such as 10/11, and not easy explaining things as they're new to PC, but they're not childern as they're in their 30s, and 40s, and that like expecting someone to just understand a car mechanic when they explain the problem with a car without ever driving, or study about cars ever so basically learning curve for them really, but give couple weeks, or months and they be way better at it, and understand some of the things as gave them time to learn, and improve to solving their own problems, and sure may still need to show some of the ropes to learn about more advance things, but totally worth it because you can do way more things on PC than on console from mods, fixes, and so on.
Sidst redigeret af Dr.Shadowds 🐉; 12. juli 2023 kl. 19:53
D. Flame 12. juli 2023 kl. 20:10 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Zef:
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
People who can't afford new cars don't have their current cars destroyed because of car manufacturers' demands that they upgrade

But just like with cars you can upgrade your old PC with better parts.
Irrelevant.

can =/= required
D. Flame 12. juli 2023 kl. 20:11 
Oprindeligt skrevet af C²C^Guyver |NZB|:
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
Car can no longer server the function of driving.

PC can no longer serve the function of playing Steam games.
1. The PC is still fine.
2. The Steam account is fine and still exists and it's still yours.

If you're reaching this far for comparisons, I'd hate to see your reaction to a Steam account that is actually locked or terminated and it certainly doesn't happen just because a user won't or doesn't upgrade their OS.
Try rereading the post that you quoted, sport.
C²C^Guyver |NZB| 12. juli 2023 kl. 22:02 
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
Oprindeligt skrevet af C²C^Guyver |NZB|:
1. The PC is still fine.
2. The Steam account is fine and still exists and it's still yours.

If you're reaching this far for comparisons, I'd hate to see your reaction to a Steam account that is actually locked or terminated and it certainly doesn't happen just because a user won't or doesn't upgrade their OS.
Try rereading the post that you quoted, sport.
I did, and my point still stands. If you think a PC or Steam account is somehow damaged by losing OS support, then your logic is sorely flawed.

Some of you post as if you have never had to upgrade an OS before.

Like I said, go look at what happens when
a Steam account is locked or terminated and then come talk to me about it somehow being "destroyed" because a particular OS is no longer supported.


Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Zef:

But just like with cars you can upgrade your old PC with better parts.
Irrelevant.

can =/= required
Not wanting to upgrade doesn't equal cannot upgrade either.
Sidst redigeret af C²C^Guyver |NZB|; 12. juli 2023 kl. 22:06
RiO 12. juli 2023 kl. 23:26 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Thermal Lance:
What happen is that the changes made on Steam's end are NOT compatible with 7.

If you're going to make that claim, you should substantiate it.

Chromium uses its own networking stack and its own crypto implementation. Chromium 109, the last Chromium to support Windows 7, has full support for HTTP/2 (HTTP/3 even) and a current-day cipher suite.

The network and crypto libraries will probably remain patchable for years as well. There's nothing in either of them that wouldn't compile for Windows 7. They're also usable as standalone components - i.e. could be used for the native parts of the Steam client, that will then have continued access to up-to-date network and crypto capabilities.

For years to come, there is nothing Valve could do on Steam's servers that would be fundamentally incompatible with Chromium 109 and that wouldn't have an automatically managed fallback included in their server software. Auto-negotiation on compatible protocol versions and supported optional features is an inherent part of the HTTP protocols.


The reason Valve isn't doing it is much more simple:
It's effort they don't want to spend for customers that will stop paying them money for new titles and that effectively will live outside the platform, detached from it and any marketing efforts for selling titles through it by publishers publishing on it.

Cherry on top:
The actual reason Google dropped support for Windows 7 and 8(.1) is one very specific one as well. Starting with Windows 10 the OS has several new memory and process related APIs that make it easier and less brittle to maintain a process isolation sandbox; and they want in on that. But it's a big shift in how Chromium's sandbox tech works, and given the low usage numbers of Windows 7 they simply don't want to maintain both versions side by side either.

It's all a matter of 'is it worth the effort' ?
Sidst redigeret af RiO; 12. juli 2023 kl. 23:29
D. Flame 13. juli 2023 kl. 4:32 
Oprindeligt skrevet af C²C^Guyver |NZB|:
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
Try rereading the post that you quoted, sport.
I did, and my point still stands. If you think a PC or Steam account is somehow damaged by losing OS support, then your logic is sorely flawed.
The your rereading comprehension skills are useless beyond salvaging.

A car that still runs even but lack a steering wheel and tires and has a bent axle is basically useless. It cannot preform its main function of transporting you from spot to spot.

It's the exact same concept as your system no longer being able to preform the function of playing games. Even if it can do other things, its proverbial axle is bent. It's primary function is no longer able to be performed.
bidulless 13. juli 2023 kl. 4:42 
Oprindeligt skrevet af RiO:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Thermal Lance:
What happen is that the changes made on Steam's end are NOT compatible with 7.

If you're going to make that claim, you should substantiate it.

Chromium uses its own networking stack and its own crypto implementation. Chromium 109, the last Chromium to support Windows 7, has full support for HTTP/2 (HTTP/3 even) and a current-day cipher suite.

The network and crypto libraries will probably remain patchable for years as well. There's nothing in either of them that wouldn't compile for Windows 7. They're also usable as standalone components - i.e. could be used for the native parts of the Steam client, that will then have continued access to up-to-date network and crypto capabilities.

For years to come, there is nothing Valve could do on Steam's servers that would be fundamentally incompatible with Chromium 109 and that wouldn't have an automatically managed fallback included in their server software. Auto-negotiation on compatible protocol versions and supported optional features is an inherent part of the HTTP protocols.


The reason Valve isn't doing it is much more simple:
It's effort they don't want to spend for customers that will stop paying them money for new titles and that effectively will live outside the platform, detached from it and any marketing efforts for selling titles through it by publishers publishing on it.

Cherry on top:
The actual reason Google dropped support for Windows 7 and 8(.1) is one very specific one as well. Starting with Windows 10 the OS has several new memory and process related APIs that make it easier and less brittle to maintain a process isolation sandbox; and they want in on that. But it's a big shift in how Chromium's sandbox tech works, and given the low usage numbers of Windows 7 they simply don't want to maintain both versions side by side either.

It's all a matter of 'is it worth the effort' ?
Hello

Still agree with most but there is still a question about the shell , and by shell i am talking about steam.exe.
This part is still somehow a mystery but there is clearly some use of ssl inside as import and it use network.
So it's the weak point of the equate imo.
C²C^Guyver |NZB| 13. juli 2023 kl. 19:57 
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
Oprindeligt skrevet af C²C^Guyver |NZB|:
I did, and my point still stands. If you think a PC or Steam account is somehow damaged by losing OS support, then your logic is sorely flawed.
The your rereading comprehension skills are useless beyond salvaging.

A car that still runs even but lack a steering wheel and tires and has a bent axle is basically useless. It cannot preform its main function of transporting you from spot to spot.

It's the exact same concept as your system no longer being able to preform the function of playing games. Even if it can do other things, its proverbial axle is bent. It's primary function is no longer able to be performed.
Did you or did not agree to the SSA upon account creation? Yes. EVERYONE did. Valve said that the system requirements may change over time. Have they? Yes. Several times in fact over the years. Are Windows 7 users honoring their part of that agreement by staying on Windows 7? No.
RiO 14. juli 2023 kl. 9:40 
Oprindeligt skrevet af C²C^Guyver |NZB|:
Oprindeligt skrevet af D. Flame:
The your rereading comprehension skills are useless beyond salvaging.

A car that still runs even but lack a steering wheel and tires and has a bent axle is basically useless. It cannot preform its main function of transporting you from spot to spot.

It's the exact same concept as your system no longer being able to preform the function of playing games. Even if it can do other things, its proverbial axle is bent. It's primary function is no longer able to be performed.
Did you or did not agree to the SSA upon account creation? Yes. EVERYONE did. Valve said that the system requirements may change over time. Have they? Yes. Several times in fact over the years. Are Windows 7 users honoring their part of that agreement by staying on Windows 7? No.

Yes. But it depends in how far the SSA holds water. It was never actually tested in court, afaik, whether such terms will hold. Esp. with consideration to the EU, this may run afoul of the Unfair Contract Terms Directive (UCTD) as this is in essence a term with which the consumer is unavailable to familiarize themselves beforehand - given that Valve at their sole discretion dictates what they update; when they update; how they update; and what the new system requirements will be. Nothing about the actual procedure is documented.
In fact - they actively stopped publishing the minimum requirements for the Steam Client altogether. There used to be an article that listed something about them in the knowledge-base, but they actively delisted it.

(You really wouldn't be the one to start a court case over it; to try and prove it though. Baaaa---d idea.)

Oprindeligt skrevet af bidulless:
Oprindeligt skrevet af RiO:

If you're going to make that claim, you should substantiate it.

Chromium uses its own networking stack and its own crypto implementation. Chromium 109, the last Chromium to support Windows 7, has full support for HTTP/2 (HTTP/3 even) and a current-day cipher suite.

The network and crypto libraries will probably remain patchable for years as well. There's nothing in either of them that wouldn't compile for Windows 7. They're also usable as standalone components - i.e. could be used for the native parts of the Steam client, that will then have continued access to up-to-date network and crypto capabilities.

For years to come, there is nothing Valve could do on Steam's servers that would be fundamentally incompatible with Chromium 109 and that wouldn't have an automatically managed fallback included in their server software. Auto-negotiation on compatible protocol versions and supported optional features is an inherent part of the HTTP protocols.


The reason Valve isn't doing it is much more simple:
It's effort they don't want to spend for customers that will stop paying them money for new titles and that effectively will live outside the platform, detached from it and any marketing efforts for selling titles through it by publishers publishing on it.

Cherry on top:
The actual reason Google dropped support for Windows 7 and 8(.1) is one very specific one as well. Starting with Windows 10 the OS has several new memory and process related APIs that make it easier and less brittle to maintain a process isolation sandbox; and they want in on that. But it's a big shift in how Chromium's sandbox tech works, and given the low usage numbers of Windows 7 they simply don't want to maintain both versions side by side either.

It's all a matter of 'is it worth the effort' ?
Hello

Still agree with most but there is still a question about the shell , and by shell i am talking about steam.exe.
This part is still somehow a mystery but there is clearly some use of ssl inside as import and it use network.
So it's the weak point of the equate imo.

The point is that Valve has every opportunity available to them to use a cross-platform up-to-date networking and crypto stack also for the native parts of the Steam client.

The fact that they currently don't do so, or may not be doing so, is secondary to the fact that they could do so. Easily even. And as such the lagging behind of the OS's own stacks in Windows 7 is not the limiting technical factor in revving the server back-end forward that it was being made out to be.
Sidst redigeret af RiO; 14. juli 2023 kl. 9:44
Ms.Trust 14. juli 2023 kl. 10:05 
Did someone tried the Original Shadow Man on win10 or Win11?
D. Flame 14. juli 2023 kl. 10:13 
Oprindeligt skrevet af RiO:
The fact that they currently don't do so, or may not be doing so, is secondary to the fact that they could do so. Easily even.
This. Exactly this.
Dr.Shadowds 🐉 14. juli 2023 kl. 10:14 
Oprindeligt skrevet af RiO:
Yes. But it depends in how far the SSA holds water. It was never actually tested in court, afaik, whether such terms will hold. Esp. with consideration to the EU, this may run afoul of the Unfair Contract Terms Directive (UCTD) as this is in essence a term with which the consumer is unavailable to familiarize themselves beforehand - given that Valve at their sole discretion dictates what they update; when they update; how they update; and what the new system requirements will be. Nothing about the actual procedure is documented.
In fact - they actively stopped publishing the minimum requirements for the Steam Client altogether. There used to be an article that listed something about them in the knowledge-base, but they actively delisted it.

(You really wouldn't be the one to start a court case over it; to try and prove it though. Baaaa---d idea.)
We're coming up to 20 years *4 years from now* with no case against steam dropping an OS. Same with all games that updates, and had dropped support for older OSs as well such as MMO, and online only games.

Oprindeligt skrevet af RiO:
The point is that Valve has every opportunity available to them to use a cross-platform up-to-date networking and crypto stack also for the native parts of the Steam client.

The fact that they currently don't do so, or may not be doing so, is secondary to the fact that they could do so. Easily even. And as such the lagging behind of the OS's own stacks in Windows 7 is not the limiting technical factor in revving the server back-end forward that it was being made out to be.
They could if they really wanted supporting the first OS they had made the client to support windows 98, but they're not obligated to do so. They drop support many times from Windows, Mac, and Linux across different versions over the years.

As far things go, we're in a ride that doesn't matter to EU, or anyone really unless they wanted extra time on their OS hence pushing Microsoft for more time support with windows XP, and that didn't stop MS from dropping them in the end.
Sidst redigeret af Dr.Shadowds 🐉; 14. juli 2023 kl. 10:16
Glimmer 14. juli 2023 kl. 11:47 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Ms.Trust:
Did someone tried the Original Shadow Man on win10 or Win11?
Started fine on Windows 10 and made it up to the church, but that control scheme's more awkward than I care to deal with.
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