In 5 years, i dont know if modding games will even be a thing anymore...

[Randy Lahey]

Outside of having to pay modders for limited access to paypalled mods through patreon, which is the biggest threat to free mods that ive seen in my 38 years of gaming. Modding games can be a lot of work, and modders should have an option for people to donate to them if they like there work, no question. But lately, and especially for sim like games (Assetto Corsa, ETS2, ATS, Skyrim Armor, GTA V, Sims 4) it has become increasingly common for modders to put their mods on there, paywall it without any free option, and leave it like that permanently (using assets to make money from major developers/publishers without permission i might add.

And for people who say, EA, Ubisoft etc have been doing it for years, why cant modders get paid for their work? Well, if it was the same i could maybe agree if it was very high quality, constantly updated, and most importantly, a one off payment like EVERY single DLC on steam is, you pay for the dlc, skin, cosmetic and its yours forever. On patreon these vermin dont just want you to pay for the mod once, they want you to pay for the mod over and over again per month and if you dont, the mod will be incompatible for the latest release of the game.

Here is a few examples im refering to

American Truck Simulator

https://www.patreon.com/voith

Euro Truck Simulator 2

{LINK REMOVED}https://mxtrucker.gumroad.com/membership

https://www.facebook.com/DamianSVW/

GTA V

https://www.patreon.com/BaggedCustoms

Skyrim

https://www.patreon.com/Harry2135

I know everyone wont agree with me, and thats ok. Maybe they say im jumping the gun or being melodramatic, thats fine. But considering that people like these are already making a living doing this shady paywall crap, i can see where modding could be in 5 years time. Where the only free mods are reshade presets and everything else you need to not only pay for, but pay $10-20 per month for each mod you are subscribed to. People fought back against bethesda when they tried this with paywalled mods on the workshop years ago, now the community seems to either be apathetic towards it, or think its perfectly fine to do it. A shame since modding is the biggest thing has over consoles. Patreon is the worst thing to ever happen to the modding scene, not what bethesda tried to do with skyrim.

[D. Flame]

Only hope is for the devs to sue them for copyright infringement.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by davidb11:

THere is no law that states modders can't ask for patreon donations to support them.
So, I'm not sure what this thread is even about.

We've gotten so used to modders not being able to monetise their work without being sued into oblivion by the game IP owner or havin to resort to workarounds as donations that people have taken mods being free for granted.

[Rex Bellator]

Originally posted by dalmatian700:

Outside of having to pay modders for limited access to paypalled mods through patreon, which is the biggest threat to free mods that ive seen in my 38 years of gaming. Modding games can be a lot of work, and modders should have an option for people to donate to them if they like there work, no question. But lately, and especially for sim like games (Assetto Corsa, ETS2, ATS, Skyrim Armor, GTA V, Sims 4) it has become increasingly common for modders to put their mods on there, paywall it without any free option, and leave it like that permanently (using assets to make money from major developers/publishers without permission i might add.

And for people who say, EA, Ubisoft etc have been doing it for years, why cant modders get paid for their work? Well, if it was the same i could maybe agree if it was very high quality, constantly updated, and most importantly, a one off payment like EVERY single DLC on steam is, you pay for the dlc, skin, cosmetic and its yours forever. On patreon these vermin dont just want you to pay for the mod once, they want you to pay for the mod over and over again per month and if you dont, the mod will be incompatible for the latest release of the game.

Here is a few examples im refering to

American Truck Simulator

https://www.patreon.com/voith

Euro Truck Simulator 2

{LINK REMOVED}https://mxtrucker.gumroad.com/membership

https://www.facebook.com/DamianSVW/

GTA V

https://www.patreon.com/BaggedCustoms

Skyrim

https://www.patreon.com/Harry2135

I know everyone wont agree with me, and thats ok. Maybe they say im jumping the gun or being melodramatic, thats fine. But considering that people like these are already making a living doing this shady paywall crap, i can see where modding could be in 5 years time. Where the only free mods are reshade presets and everything else you need to not only pay for, but pay $10-20 per month for each mod you are subscribed to. People fought back against bethesda when they tried this with paywalled mods on the workshop years ago, now the community seems to either be apathetic towards it, or think its perfectly fine to do it. A shame since modding is the biggest thing has over consoles. Patreon is the worst thing to ever happen to the modding scene, not what bethesda tried to do with skyrim.

No need to be so alarmist over some modders trying to hock their wares. Mods aren't going anywhere.

I'm not defending the practice but at the same time it helps to remind yourself you do not [i[need[/u] these mods. You can safely ignore them and play the base game just fine.

Besides you're not required to pay these modders a continuous amount per month. You could, for instance, pay for a single month, get the mod and then sit on it until you're ready to update.

It's still scummy of them but it's an option. Either way it's possible we eventually start seeing developers like Bethesda tighten up their licences for modding to disallow patreon-style services.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Originally posted by davidb11:

THere is no law that states modders can't ask for patreon donations to support them.
So, I'm not sure what this thread is even about.

We've gotten so used to modders not being able to monetise their work without being sued into oblivion by the game IP owner or havin to resort to workarounds as donations that people have taken mods being free for granted.

Yup.
Never seems to have occured to people that the modders would love to get paid.

Originally posted by Rex Bellator:

It's still scummy of them but it's an option. Either way it's possible we eventually start seeing developers like Bethesda tighten up their licences for modding to disallow patreon-style services.

Yeah. So scummy. Imagine wanting finnancial compensation for your hardwork.

And then the mods wind up as paid DLC. or on some Creator's club style service.
Dev/Pubs are lless interested in sueing modders and more interested in trying to profit off them.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by Rex Bellator:

Originally posted by dalmatian700:

Outside of having to pay modders for limited access to paypalled mods through patreon, which is the biggest threat to free mods that ive seen in my 38 years of gaming. Modding games can be a lot of work, and modders should have an option for people to donate to them if they like there work, no question. But lately, and especially for sim like games (Assetto Corsa, ETS2, ATS, Skyrim Armor, GTA V, Sims 4) it has become increasingly common for modders to put their mods on there, paywall it without any free option, and leave it like that permanently (using assets to make money from major developers/publishers without permission i might add.

And for people who say, EA, Ubisoft etc have been doing it for years, why cant modders get paid for their work? Well, if it was the same i could maybe agree if it was very high quality, constantly updated, and most importantly, a one off payment like EVERY single DLC on steam is, you pay for the dlc, skin, cosmetic and its yours forever. On patreon these vermin dont just want you to pay for the mod once, they want you to pay for the mod over and over again per month and if you dont, the mod will be incompatible for the latest release of the game.

Here is a few examples im refering to

American Truck Simulator

https://www.patreon.com/voith

Euro Truck Simulator 2

{LINK REMOVED}https://mxtrucker.gumroad.com/membership

https://www.facebook.com/DamianSVW/

GTA V

https://www.patreon.com/BaggedCustoms

Skyrim

https://www.patreon.com/Harry2135

I know everyone wont agree with me, and thats ok. Maybe they say im jumping the gun or being melodramatic, thats fine. But considering that people like these are already making a living doing this shady paywall crap, i can see where modding could be in 5 years time. Where the only free mods are reshade presets and everything else you need to not only pay for, but pay $10-20 per month for each mod you are subscribed to. People fought back against bethesda when they tried this with paywalled mods on the workshop years ago, now the community seems to either be apathetic towards it, or think its perfectly fine to do it. A shame since modding is the biggest thing has over consoles. Patreon is the worst thing to ever happen to the modding scene, not what bethesda tried to do with skyrim.

No need to be so alarmist over some modders trying to hock their wares. Mods aren't going anywhere.

I'm not defending the practice but at the same time it helps to remind yourself you do not [i[need[/u] these mods. You can safely ignore them and play the base game just fine.

Besides you're not required to pay these modders a continuous amount per month. You could, for instance, pay for a single month, get the mod and then sit on it until you're ready to update.

It's still scummy of them but it's an option. Either way it's possible we eventually start seeing developers like Bethesda tighten up their licences for modding to disallow patreon-style services.

Right but as Tito just brought up, they're being sued, and likely rightfully so, being they do not own the Rights of the game, and are making money from others labors.

It would be the same to say, that these folks on YT, are making money "reacting" to certain songs, or movies what not. They're making money on the backs of the artists creators and publishers, who came out with the movie or song.

And i'm seeing them getting strikes, and warned by YT or the lawyers of these craft, all the time. It's the same with the modders. There has to be agreements, and in some cases maybe legal agreements for they to make money on these mods imo.

[davidb11]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by Rex Bellator:

No need to be so alarmist over some modders trying to hock their wares. Mods aren't going anywhere.

I'm not defending the practice but at the same time it helps to remind yourself you do not [i[need[/u] these mods. You can safely ignore them and play the base game just fine.

Besides you're not required to pay these modders a continuous amount per month. You could, for instance, pay for a single month, get the mod and then sit on it until you're ready to update.

It's still scummy of them but it's an option. Either way it's possible we eventually start seeing developers like Bethesda tighten up their licences for modding to disallow patreon-style services.

Right but as Tito just brought up, they're being sued, and likely rightfully so, being they do not own the Rights of the game, and are making money from others labors.

It would be the same to say, that these folks on YT, are making money "reacting" to certain songs, or movies what not. They're making money on the backs of the artists creators and publishers, who came out with the movie or song.

And i'm seeing them getting strikes, and warned by YT or the lawyers of these craft, all the time. It's the same with the modders. There has to be agreements, and in some cases maybe legal agreements for they to make money on these mods imo.

That is not what Tito said.
Do not willingly misinterpret his words please.

No one is getting sued for this, because it's not illegal.
Nor does it violate copyright laws.
NOR IS it scummy by definition.

Good grief.

Imagine being so hostile you think it's scummy people should get paid for dedicating a huge amount of their life to something.
OOF.

You probably think artists shouldn't get commissions done.

Reaction channels don't even work like you're saying either.
SSNiperwolf is the exception, not the norm.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Right but as Tito just brought up, they're being sued, and likely rightfully so, being they do not own the Rights of the game, and are making money from others labors.

It would be the same to say, that these folks on YT, are making money "reacting" to certain songs, or movies what not. They're making money on the backs of the artists creators and publishers, who came out with the movie or song.

And i'm seeing them getting strikes, and warned by YT or the lawyers of these craft, all the time. It's the same with the modders. There has to be agreements, and in some cases maybe legal agreements for they to make money on these mods imo.

That is not what Tito said.
Do not willingly misinterpret his words please.

No one is getting sued for this, because it's not illegal.
Nor does it violate copyright laws.
NOR IS it scummy by definition.

Good grief.

Imagine being so hostile you think it's scummy people should get paid for dedicating a huge amount of their life to something.
OOF.

You probably think artists shouldn't get commissions done.

Reaction channels don't even work like you're saying either.
SSNiperwolf is the exception, not the norm.

A modder at GTA got sued. We see these stories all the time. Idk this "Sniper Wolf" per se, but if she's reacting to copyrighted material, like i seen YTers banned or warned, if only to react to political debates, and action taken by their Networks (ABC, Fox, CNN etc), she probably can.

The question is "should" they be sued? My answer, is yes, IF they do not have the expressed permissions from the developer. No matter how hard they work, they are working on someone elses material. Not their own, and profiting from it.

[davidb11]

Good grief, no, no, no, that's not how this works at all.
UGH.

No one gets banned or warned at Youtube like you are claiming.
That's not what happens.

And it also doesn't mean a video game modder can be sued.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Good grief, no, no, no, that's not how this works at all.
UGH.

No one gets banned or warned at Youtube like you are claiming.
That's not what happens.

And it also doesn't mean a video game modder can be sued.

They have lol. I saw a young couple on YT recently, bring the receipts and all they had to stop reacting, being the lawyers from a huge band , gave them a cease and desist, and a strike on YT. It happens all the time.

[davidb11]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by davidb11:

Good grief, no, no, no, that's not how this works at all.
UGH.

No one gets banned or warned at Youtube like you are claiming.
That's not what happens.

And it also doesn't mean a video game modder can be sued.

They have lol. I saw a young couple on YT recently, bring the receipts and all they had to stop reacting, being the lawyers from a huge band , gave them a cease and desist, and a strike on YT. It happens all the time.

Seems legit.

Sorry, but Reddit reaction is legal and will always be legal.
Anyone who tries to stop that will have an Apocalypse on their hands.

[BalletFace]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Only hope is for the devs to sue them for copyright infringement.

It's their main inspiration for what to hype the next game with. (Farming sim series, ETS2 and ATS upgrades, prob Train Sim). What would be next in line for sue sewage? Let's Play videos. Those generate a flood of sales, so no shot at copyright lawsuits.

They will never sue the modders, as they are the ones who bring life to the games. And to be honest, I don't mind speding a bit of money on the high rated mods, if the vast majority say they are good.

Someone mentioned mods costing 100s or 1000s of dollars, which is proper insanity. I guess if you have some super obscure real equipment from WW2 you want to implement in you full sized Lancaster bomber cockpit, maybe? But that isn't the OP's point in his post.

[BalletFace]

Originally posted by xBCxRangers:

Originally posted by davidb11:

That is not what Tito said.
Do not willingly misinterpret his words please.

No one is getting sued for this, because it's not illegal.
Nor does it violate copyright laws.
NOR IS it scummy by definition.

Good grief.

Imagine being so hostile you think it's scummy people should get paid for dedicating a huge amount of their life to something.
OOF.

You probably think artists shouldn't get commissions done.

Reaction channels don't even work like you're saying either.
SSNiperwolf is the exception, not the norm.

A modder at GTA got sued. We see these stories all the time. Idk this "Sniper Wolf" per se, but if she's reacting to copyrighted material, like i seen YTers banned or warned, if only to react to political debates, and action taken by their Networks (ABC, Fox, CNN etc), she probably can.

The question is "should" they be sued? My answer, is yes, IF they do not have the expressed permissions from the developer. No matter how hard they work, they are working on someone elses material. Not their own, and profiting from it.

SS sniper Wolf never played a game, she just pretended to. She also have the entire YouTube community after her for being... Quite unruly and disgusting towards others. So she's easy picking for a law suit, because how matter how it goes, the suee will benefit. They will have the people's vote.

Oh, don't forget there's something called Fair Use in the legal system.

[davidb11]

Yeah. She's the bad one for certain.

And you make a good point above, modders will never be sued.
And Fair Use powers reaction videos.
So, legally trying to do a cease and desist for a fair use is going to get your lawyers disbarred. :P
Or sanctioned.

[xBCxRangers]

Originally posted by davidb11:

Yeah. She's the bad one for certain.

And you make a good point above, modders will never be sued.
And Fair Use powers reaction videos.
So, legally trying to do a cease and desist for a fair use is going to get your lawyers disbarred. :P
Or sanctioned.

All you have to do is Google modders being sued, and you will see Take Two, Blizzard, Epic, Sony, Nintendo, the list goes on of modders being sued by these companies.

Idt the lawyers of those companies are being disbarred. In fact, if i was being sued by them, i would think i'm in very deep trouble, given their bank accounts.

And so yes, Modders are being sued. And personally, the other fella brought up Farm Sim. Big brouhaha over that, in that "John Deere" was not available on Console years ago, but by modders on PC, i think, even on their own modding website.

Consolers got together, contacted John Deere with links of those PC Mods, and magically enough, a company who could not afford the JD license, or did not care, or it's a pc thing, magically appeared in their next title, on consoles as a licensed product.

One reason could be, they could afford the licence, but were cheap and lazy, or two, they would be sued, and the biggest mod on their hub, would go away, costing them thousands of gamers.

We just don't know.

One thing we do know, is modders can, and could be, and are sued. And two, be careful with licensed products. I saw a bundle back in the day on ATS here at the Workshop. UPS, Amazon, Walmart, Fedex, you name it. Now, pretty rare. SCS needs to license the products.

[MonkehMaster]

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Originally posted by davidb11:

THere is no law that states modders can't ask for patreon donations to support them.
So, I'm not sure what this thread is even about.

We've gotten so used to modders not being able to monetise their work without being sued into oblivion by the game IP owner or havin to resort to workarounds as donations that people have taken mods being free for granted.

i will never pay a single cent for a mod, even more so when game prices are disgustingly over priced, not including lazily made, along with them bothering to optimize their games now a days becoming more prevalent.

that being said, modders can not monetize or charge for content/art/ect.. that isnt theirs, they have no rights to anything within the game(s) and anyone doing so, should be sued.

donations are one thing, monetizing others property/products, will likely get you banned, sued, maybe more... those modders arent anything special, nor or can they afford to fight these game devs/companies.