The day I lost all my games to DRM

[CYZLAK]

Story time. I've been here a long time. Since day 1, you could say. It was 2004. I bought Half-Life 2 near enough to release day. I bought the Gordon box art, in case you were wondering. Anyway, amongst other things, on the discs came Counter-Strike: Source, and Steam. I wasn't really interested in Steam at first, I was focused on performance and didn't want it "hogging all my memory" because I had to keep it open to play. Anyway, I sucked it up when they introduced friends lists, because I could spam memes to friends as I head shot them in-game, and all was well.

Fast forward to today. Through a friend, an old computer from 2003 falls into my lap. I spent some time thinking for a use case, and retro being a thing now, researched the hardware/software used during it's era, turns out Windows XP was the way to go. So I got myself an era appropriate beastly Geforce 6800 GT, and got to work. Oh the nostalgia!

This is when the ugly face of DRM raised up and made itself known to me. You see, Half-Life 2 came out in 2004. I was using Steam. Steam got known for crazy sales early on. Games like FEAR, STALKER, absolutely heaps of other games started releasing. We all had broadband by then, so could download a game overnight. And I was young with a disposable income. Practically all of my Windows XP era games are in my Steam library. And guess what? Steam doesn't "support" Windows XP anymore. Well I mean, you can go and find an old version of the Steam client and Steam installs just fine on XP, but then you have to log in. Apparently they turned off the Steam login servers for XP some years ago. Why? Who knows really. End of the day, the cruel fact that all of my games are locked behind a login screen, even if i burn backups to CD, is the grim reality I now face.

Steam feels more like a rental service now more than than ever. You just don't think about this when you're always on the latest and greatest Operating System. How can you believe you "own" of of the games you spend your hard earned money on? One day this could happen to you, login server disabled or fails, being the specific DRM that Steam uses, and you can say goodbye to everything. Almost 20 years worth of game purchases. Astounding.

If anyone knows a way around this, please let me know, I don't know if these forums have PMs as I rarely have stories like this, but if they do, hit me up. The only thing I can think of, is dual boot to Steam OS. I found out SteamOS supports really old hardware, like Pentium 4 era hardware, which as it turns out, is early Windows XP era. But I don't know the first thing about installing SteamOS on a PC, so more research needed there.

Have fun with your Steam games everyone, but just remember: you don't own them!

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Just missed the entire point, once again. I'm not trying to run modern anything. I'm trying to play games made for Windows XP, on Windows XP.

Then you already know the answer; you can't.

It's really that simple, and it's nothing to do with DRM. It's steam requiring you to prove you own the game. It's not that hard to understand?

As to the other things you've said? GFWL games run just fine under W10. I still have the original Gr1d, and yes that works, along with a number of that "era" games.
Gr1d does have some problems you have to work around, but it's not something that stops you from playing it, unlike much earlier DOS games which required a complete rewrite to work...

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Valve need to patch it so their offline backups don't require a Steam client login to work , they just do.

"I just wanna pirate games so i don't have to buy them"

Steam is made to make sure you own the game your attempting to run, because otherwise what's stopping me buying it and giving the game to all my mates for free?
The days of the disc is long gone, and to shut down any "but i could do that with a disc" arguments, if you own the disc only 1 person can use that disc at a time, no matter how many people you want to share it with..
But....
if i was to share my copy of Fallout 4 with everyone, and Steam didn't need to authenticate anything? .....
yeah that's going to end well isn't it? /s

Postat inițial de Nomad:

These are meant to be my games, this isn't a rental service, or so I thought, yet I'm locked out of thousands of dollars of purchases. Not acceptable IMO. You would have never seen me post if this was how it worked, I'd be blissfully gaming instead of typing. Why do they need a log in anyway? It's unnecessary DRM.

It *IS* a rental service though, you own absolutely NOTHING. You have "the right to play it" and nothing more. Naught. Nada, Nothing.
This is part of the agreement you accepted when you signed up to Steam (And IIRC is also in the one you have to accept when buying a game)

Why do they need you to authenticate the fact a different PC is attempting to play it? To stop people giving all their mates the game for free, which is actually a violation of the terms you agreed to...

20+ years later, and people still defending DRM because "lol piracy". LOL, listen friend, these are PC games, I can pirate them in two seconds if I wanted. Once again, DRM punishing people who bought the actual game. It's just like the Securom/Safedisc days. Nothing's changed. "MaYbE You'LL gIvE tHe IsO tO youR friEnDs" is an argument that needs to stay in 1999.

You wouldn't download a reasonable argument, would you? Stop supporting and defending a company's awful practices that do nothing but make your experience worse. Valve don't care about you, why do you care about them?

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Postat inițial de Mad Scientist:

I've played that game without issues, no extra steps on Win10.

It's even in my Steam Library.

As for the other games, unfamiliar, but sometimes all you need to do is run one thing specifically or change options to get some older games to work, which is very low effort scenarios.

Glad to read they've fixed it. If you search the game discussion forum, you'll see me and many others swearing a lot about how it was broken for a long, long time.

Yeah so about that, don't believe everything you read on steam forums. I just re-downloaded it. Game is still broken. Still has GFWL live on it. Warner Bros/Nether Realm won't patch it. game discussion forums still has many posts complaining about it. Won't run on steam deck apparently for same reasons. Guess what, it's a Windows XP era game (2007/2008).

I really don't get why you'd come in here and just lie to defend and protect Valve. Fanboys I guess?

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Komarimaru:

To be fair, I've known we've not owned our games since the Apogee days. Even when ya mail ordered them, you are buying a license for a copy, you do not own it, cannot copy it and distribute it to others for all their games.

I mean, Wolf3D, Raptor(Awesome top down shooter), Blake Stone, Commander Keen 1-6, Monster Bash, Alien Carnage...

I could list the entire library, since still own all the original diskette's from the era lol Ya always bought a license back then too. Even with later games, you own a license not the game. Quake, Unreal, Duke3D, etc etc.

Yeah, I have a Duke3D CD that has full versions of most of all those games on it too. Difference is with that, they mail ordered you a floppy. Sure I mean, "don't copy that floppy", but you could essentially do whatever you want with it. Same with physical purchases now, I can do dumb things like try to install Doom 3 on windows 98 if I want to, because it's my CD copy. I don't have to answer to Valve and "prove I own it by logging in". That's the DRM that completely stinks. People just don't get it. Or they're totally OK with knowing they don't actually own a copy of the game.

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Just missed the entire point, once again. I'm not trying to run modern anything. I'm trying to play games made for Windows XP, on Windows XP.

Then you already know the answer; you can't.

It's really that simple, and it's nothing to do with DRM. It's steam requiring you to prove you own the game. It's not that hard to understand?

Don't get it twisted. I can do exactly that, I'm installing Wing Commander right now. It just doesn't work with Steam games. That is purely because of Steam DRM, nothing else.

[Mad Scientist]

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Yeah so about that, don't believe everything you read on steam forums. I just re-downloaded it. Game is still broken. Still has GFWL live on it. Warner Bros/Nether Realm won't patch it. game discussion forums still has many posts complaining about it. Won't run on steam deck apparently for same reasons. Guess what, it's a Windows XP era game (2007/2008).

I really don't get why you'd come in here and just lie to defend and protect Valve. Fanboys I guess?

Why mine works one way and yours works another way could also be different settings being applied. I know they allowed you to just do a local profile, plus another game that required GFWL was patched out, so depending on how they did it, could've affected another game that would normally want GFWL.

Regardless, this is another example of one user could easily have an issue others do not.

Nothing about that makes someone a "fanboy". Older games as said, sometimes can require a minimal effort change to function as desired.

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Mad Scientist:

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Yeah so about that, don't believe everything you read on steam forums. I just re-downloaded it. Game is still broken. Still has GFWL live on it. Warner Bros/Nether Realm won't patch it. game discussion forums still has many posts complaining about it. Won't run on steam deck apparently for same reasons. Guess what, it's a Windows XP era game (2007/2008).

I really don't get why you'd come in here and just lie to defend and protect Valve. Fanboys I guess?

Why mine works one way and yours works another way could also be different settings being applied. I know they allowed you to just do a local profile, plus another game that required GFWL was patched out, so depending on how they did it, could've affected another game that would normally want GFWL.

Regardless, this is another example of one user could easily have an issue others do not.

Nothing about that makes someone a "fanboy". Older games as said, sometimes can require a minimal effort change to function as desired.

Correction: MKAK didn't get a Steam release until 2012. Which makes it a Windows 7 game. Strange that it is so broken. Also my game has a different name. It's listed is "Mortal Kombat Kollection". Also it's completely delisted from Steam, I just checked. So you're lucky and it works, good for you. Obviously it's not just 1 user (me) having issues like I have said. It's widely considered broken and is probably delisted because of that. The most popular topic over there is a bunch of steps to take to remove GFWL entries from the registry to get it working. Those aren't "minimal effort" changes.

[Liquid Inc]

Postat inițial de Nomad:

20+ years later, and people still defending DRM because "lol piracy". LOL, listen friend, these are PC games, I can pirate them in two seconds if I wanted. Once again, DRM punishing people who bought the actual game. It's just like the Securom/Safedisc days. Nothing's changed. "MaYbE You'LL gIvE tHe IsO tO youR friEnDs" is an argument that needs to stay in 1999.

You wouldn't download a reasonable argument, would you? Stop supporting and defending a company's awful practices that do nothing but make your experience worse. Valve don't care about you, why do you care about them?

Ahh so what's your solution to it? Let everyone do it and ignore the problems? See that's what got us into this mess in the first place and why DRM was made at all.. People went and ruined a good thing...

How is it "Punishing" people who bought the game though? Those who choose to remain on OS which are completely outdated, that can't even access most websites and services, really aren't a majority of players, and certainly not worth the expense of keeping outdated systems secure for...
Steam still have to authenticate things, otherwise they wouldn't be legally able to operate, regardless of whether you use 3.1 or 11...

i don't know about the last part, since GFWL is nothing to do with Steam, but there you go... The onus for that is on Microsoft, so maybe you should be shouting at them instead?

Postat inițial de Nomad:

. Or they're totally OK with knowing they don't actually own a copy of the game.

You never owned it before, so the situation hasn't changed.
Ok you can sell the disc to someone else, but that was the extent at to which you "owned" it, and really, how many people actually sell their discs in a usable state? majority of pre-owned discs i've seen are scratched to pieces and virtually worthless.

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

Postat inițial de Nomad:

20+ years later, and people still defending DRM because "lol piracy". LOL, listen friend, these are PC games, I can pirate them in two seconds if I wanted. Once again, DRM punishing people who bought the actual game. It's just like the Securom/Safedisc days. Nothing's changed. "MaYbE You'LL gIvE tHe IsO tO youR friEnDs" is an argument that needs to stay in 1999.

You wouldn't download a reasonable argument, would you? Stop supporting and defending a company's awful practices that do nothing but make your experience worse. Valve don't care about you, why do you care about them?

Ahh so what's your solution to it? Let everyone do it and ignore the problems? See that's what got us into this mess in the first place and why DRM was made at all.. People went and ruined a good thing...

I can take one glance at GOG, an extremely popular, worldwide success story, who have nothing but DRM free games. I can do exactly what I described, take a backup installer over to XP and it installs in 2 clicks, and works. I guess you're going to tell me they're contributing to piracy or something now?

Why is it so hard to grasp that some people like to play Windows XP games on Windows XP. You'd never see console gamers complaining they can't play their PS3 games on their PS3 because it's locked behind a login. Even after the servers go down. Even after the digital storefronts close. In fact, the community blows up about it, like when we found out about the "CBomb" inside PS5's. Sony have already fixed that. So why's it so widely accepted that you'll always be on the latest OS when it comes to PC, and it's your own fault if you're not? Because I'll get a virus on my standalone machine? Completely illogical.

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

How is it "Punishing" people who bought the game though? Those who choose to remain on OS which are completely outdated, that can't even access most websites and services, really aren't a majority of players, and certainly not worth the expense of keeping outdated systems secure for...
Steam still have to authenticate things, otherwise they wouldn't be legally able to operate, regardless of whether you use 3.1 or 11...

How? Obviously, punishing me for buying digital, once again because I cannot access my games. That I paid thousands of dollars for. Over a 20 year period.
1. Who cares if it's "outdated"
2. I'm not there to access websites and services, I'm there to play my computer games.
3. I know I'm not the majority, Yeah you're right. I'm sorry us old heads would be costing Valve a few cents a year in electricity to keep a login server online, I'm sure that'll break the bank
4. Steam don't actually have to force authentication on backup copies at all. You've already made the purchase. Just like in your example of selling physical games, I should be allowed to do what I like with it once I have bought a licensed copy. You get me?

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

and really, how many people actually sell their discs in a usable state? majority of pre-owned discs i've seen are scratched to pieces and virtually worthless.

...loads of people? I can easily buy sealed copies of Quake 2/4. I'm always buying second hand stuff in good condition, not sure what planet you're on here, but it's a flimsy argument at best.

[Dr. Death]

Dont bring the terms of service/EULA here. You do know that they are literally DESIGNED to be as hard to read as possible to have people skip them? Not to mention they are not considered legally binding and if they break the consumer laws people can sue just the same.

[Liquid Inc]

Postat inițial de Nomad:

I can take one glance at GOG, an extremely popular, worldwide success story, who have nothing but DRM free games. I can do exactly what I described, take a backup installer over to XP and it installs in 2 clicks, and works. I guess you're going to tell me they're contributing to piracy or something now?

They are. Nothing stopping you giving it to everyone around you, and if people are happy to do that over on Netflix, then they will be doing it there as well.

You know what that means? Means things cost more for the rest of us...

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Why is it so hard to grasp that some people like to play Windows XP games on Windows XP. You'd never see console gamers complaining they can't play their PS3 games on their PS3 because it's locked behind a login. Even after the servers go down. Even after the digital storefronts close. In fact, the community blows up about it, like when we found out about the "CBomb" inside PS5's. Sony have already fixed that. So why's it so widely accepted that you'll always be on the latest OS when it comes to PC, and it's your own fault if you're not? Because I'll get a virus on my standalone machine? Completely illogical.

People can play on whatever they want, but it doesn't mean companies should have to pay to keep everything secure for the random person who wants to use well outdated equipment?

Actually you do on the PS3 front just the same.. maybe not to access the base game, but much of it is still locked up in multiplayer and online services which have long gone... I have a few games which are virtually unplayable now because they rely on the online stuff which doesn't exist....

You don't have to be on the "latest OS", win 7 is ancient now and those that were on 7 actually got the -free- upgrade to 10 for many many years...
So, the only reason to remain is for either specific use such as expensive machinery software, but then your not gaming on it... Everyone else doesn't have a reason to remain, most games work on the next OS up..

I still play many games from ~2000 on win 11....

Postat inițial de Nomad:

How? Obviously, punishing me for buying digital, once again because I cannot access my games. That I paid thousands of dollars for. Over a 20 year period.

Steam's a service, why should they pay thousands extra every year keeping XP supported so you can continue using it?

Postat inițial de Nomad:

1. Who cares if it's "outdated"
2. I'm not there to access websites and services, I'm there to play my computer games.
3. I know I'm not the majority, Yeah you're right. I'm sorry us old heads would be costing Valve a few cents a month in electricity to keep a login server online, I'm sure that'll break the bank
4. Steam don't actually have to force authentication on backup copies at all. You've already made the purchase. Just like in your example of selling physical games, I should be allowed to do what I like with it once I have bought the licensed copy. You get me?

1. Steam, because of the amount of money they'd have to spend on keeping you supported. This isn't a simple notepad change, most of the time it's entire security systems not owned by steam that no longer support XP. Browsers for instance.
Steam can't force them to undo all the updates, and neither do they have any grounds to do so.

2. Steams a platform that runs on multiple services, not all owned by Valve. If one is no longer capable of running on XP, then Steam have to follow suit.

3. it's not just "a login server" they have to pay for

4. They make sure the account running the game, owns it, as per the agreement you sign. You can play the game all you want, but that's literally the extent the licence grants. That's it. Install and play.
So as much as i dislike having to log in to steam to play old games, it is what it is.

[Ironballs McFistPunch]

You wouldn't use an operating system from 1984 in 2004.... why the hell would anyone support an operating system from 2001 now?

This isn't business software running on java 8.
Update for the love of god.

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

blah blah

You're inside of your own universe man.
Things cost more for the rest of us? Last year was the first time video games have increased in price since the 90s. And it was only PS5 titles (soon XBox). PC games have always been cheaper than console versions of the same games. Games actually used to be more expensive before optical media, e.g. floppies and cartridges, because they cost more to manufacture. So, nothing is more expensive because GOG exists, that's total rubbish.

Re: Steam. You're making logging in on XP it sound needlessly complicated and oh-so expensive, or flat out impossible. It is literally just a login server. I've seen a guy on youtube spoof the steam authentication server and had it working on WinXP. So yeah, I could just hack it, but that's not the point. I shouldn't have to do that.

My solution (remove authentication from backups) is not only elegant, it would work for more than just my use case. I mean, let's be real, unless you like playing in their little ecosystem with points, cards, workshops and god knows whatever else, you probably think that Steam is a bloated piece of software these days. So if there was no authentication layer on backups. You could buy any game you like on a phone or different device, download the backup, and play all your Steam games on any PC you like, without having the Steam client installed. Now wouldn't that be fantastic? Valve would shudder at the thought that you're not logging in and engaging with their service every single time you want to play Duke 3D. Oh well.

I'm meeting someone from fb marketplace tomorrow to buy a gigantic box with over 50 of their PC games with bangers such as Empire Earth 1 & 2, Settlers, Age of Mythology, Halo 1 & 2, C&C Generals, you know, the good stuff! They're all boxed with manuals and CD Keys, so this marks the end of me buying anything on Steam, ever again. If I can't get a physical copy, it's not worth owning, and if I have to rent a digital copy, no way I'm paying 60-70 dollars anymore. It took 18 years, but I learned my lesson. I'm lucky my library is only 220 games. I have friends with thousands of games purchased on Steam.

[Crazy Tiger]

Postat inițial de Nomad:

I can take one glance at GOG, an extremely popular, worldwide success story, who have nothing but DRM free games.

I quite like GoG. But as a storefront it's not actually doing that well. Their finances haven't been the best the past years and they're also slowly ditching their own core policies. It's not actually that popular or succesful as people hope it is. Which is unfortunate.

Postat inițial de Nomad:

You could buy any game you like on a phone or different device, download the backup, and play all your Steam games on any PC you like, without having the Steam client installed. Now wouldn't that be fantastic?

It would be fantastic, sure. Also highly abusable and not sustainable in the long run.

Postat inițial de Nomad:

If I can't get a physical copy, it's not worth owning, and if I have to rent a digital copy, no way I'm paying 60-70 dollars anymore.

Then you'll mostly be playing old games. Any new PC game in retail stores nowadays is more often than not just a download code for a launcher (Steam, Epic, Origin, etc).

[Yzal]

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Postat inițial de Liquid Inc:

blah blah

You're inside of you're own universe man.

Says the guy running Windows XP in 2023.

[CYZLAK]

Postat inițial de Lazy Dog:

Postat inițial de Nomad:

You're inside of you're own universe man.

Says the guy running Windows XP in 2023.

Hey man, Retro is cool. Also, least I'm not getting Bing search results and app suggestions inside of my File and Folder search. Windows search blows on Win10/11. So enjoy that!

[Komarimaru]

Postat inițial de Nomad:

Postat inițial de Lazy Dog:

Says the guy running Windows XP in 2023.

Hey man, Retro is cool. Also, least I'm not getting Bing search results and app suggestions inside of my File and Folder search. Windows search blows on Win10/11. So enjoy that!

Ah yes, because a consumer friendly feature that's easily disabled is so evil.