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CYZLAK 2023 年 3 月 6 日 上午 1:53
The day I lost all my games to DRM
Story time. I've been here a long time. Since day 1, you could say. It was 2004. I bought Half-Life 2 near enough to release day. I bought the Gordon box art, in case you were wondering. Anyway, amongst other things, on the discs came Counter-Strike: Source, and Steam. I wasn't really interested in Steam at first, I was focused on performance and didn't want it "hogging all my memory" because I had to keep it open to play. Anyway, I sucked it up when they introduced friends lists, because I could spam memes to friends as I head shot them in-game, and all was well.

Fast forward to today. Through a friend, an old computer from 2003 falls into my lap. I spent some time thinking for a use case, and retro being a thing now, researched the hardware/software used during it's era, turns out Windows XP was the way to go. So I got myself an era appropriate beastly Geforce 6800 GT, and got to work. Oh the nostalgia!

This is when the ugly face of DRM raised up and made itself known to me. You see, Half-Life 2 came out in 2004. I was using Steam. Steam got known for crazy sales early on. Games like FEAR, STALKER, absolutely heaps of other games started releasing. We all had broadband by then, so could download a game overnight. And I was young with a disposable income. Practically all of my Windows XP era games are in my Steam library. And guess what? Steam doesn't "support" Windows XP anymore. Well I mean, you can go and find an old version of the Steam client and Steam installs just fine on XP, but then you have to log in. Apparently they turned off the Steam login servers for XP some years ago. Why? Who knows really. End of the day, the cruel fact that all of my games are locked behind a login screen, even if i burn backups to CD, is the grim reality I now face.

Steam feels more like a rental service now more than than ever. You just don't think about this when you're always on the latest and greatest Operating System. How can you believe you "own" of of the games you spend your hard earned money on? One day this could happen to you, login server disabled or fails, being the specific DRM that Steam uses, and you can say goodbye to everything. Almost 20 years worth of game purchases. Astounding.

If anyone knows a way around this, please let me know, I don't know if these forums have PMs as I rarely have stories like this, but if they do, hit me up. The only thing I can think of, is dual boot to Steam OS. I found out SteamOS supports really old hardware, like Pentium 4 era hardware, which as it turns out, is early Windows XP era. But I don't know the first thing about installing SteamOS on a PC, so more research needed there.

Have fun with your Steam games everyone, but just remember: you don't own them!
最後修改者:CYZLAK; 2023 年 3 月 6 日 上午 1:56
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目前顯示第 61-75 則留言,共 135
WhiteKnight 2023 年 3 月 7 日 上午 9:53 
引用自 Dr. Death
引用自 Start_Running
Yeah and if you read the SSA you signed, and the eulas you;'d know they have a claiuuse about that. I mean you can technically run the client on XOP still if tyou find an old enough install..but the issue is. that client is not going to be able to talk wityh the modern middleware, or backend which are required for functionality.

You know the funny thing is. WHy not just upgrade to W7. I mean lets be fair I've yet to see anything XP can do that 7 can't and when it comes to running games I've not seen one that doesn't actually run better on 7 than it did on XP.
And how long will it be before W7 is supported? Then W10? Then 11?

Maybe 5-10 years until they remove W7 support.
Crashed 2023 年 3 月 7 日 上午 10:11 
引用自 WhiteKnight
引用自 Dr. Death
And how long will it be before W7 is supported? Then W10? Then 11?

Maybe 5-10 years until they remove W7 support.
With Chromium dropping support since version 110 and Steam running on a 35 version old CEF, it may be on borrowed time.
Dr. Death 2023 年 3 月 7 日 上午 10:29 
引用自 Crashed
引用自 WhiteKnight

Maybe 5-10 years until they remove W7 support.
With Chromium dropping support since version 110 and Steam running on a 35 version old CEF, it may be on borrowed time.
Correct to both of you. W7 may have its support dropped in 3 years.
I dont think that steam can do anything to change to always support older systems. After all, legacy server connections are both unsafe and cost money. But i think its very important for people to realize that steam CANNOT and is NOT REQUIRED to always let you play the game as you bought them in the system that they used to run after enough time has passed.
Crashed 2023 年 3 月 7 日 上午 10:45 
引用自 Dr. Death
引用自 Crashed
With Chromium dropping support since version 110 and Steam running on a 35 version old CEF, it may be on borrowed time.
Correct to both of you. W7 may have its support dropped in 3 years.
I dont think that steam can do anything to change to always support older systems. After all, legacy server connections are both unsafe and cost money. But i think its very important for people to realize that steam CANNOT and is NOT REQUIRED to always let you play the game as you bought them in the system that they used to run after enough time has passed.
In fairness Windows 7's HTTP APIs do support TLS 1.2, but root certificates may not stay up to date.

The big part that will drop Windows 7 support, just like when Valve dropped XP support, is the Chromium browser. That said, going to Chromium 110 or newer might alleviate some of the performance concerns, as the Chromium project can dump many legacy emulation code paths.
Start_Running 2023 年 3 月 7 日 上午 10:52 
引用自 Liquid Inc
引用自 Nomad
I... did? I built a Pentium 4 3 GHz, 2GB RAM, GeForce 7600 GS rig with Windows XP. That's what this whole topic is about. Welcome to it.


tbh, why not just run win 10 on it? it'll run on on around 1GB of ram, unlike Win 7 which has a minimum of 2gb... You'll be up to date, and things will work..
I actually ran a standard Win 10 install on a laptop with an old manky celeron and just 2gb of ram. It actually gave it a new lease of life, compared to keeping it on Win 7 as the 2nd 2gb ram stick failed and made win 7 virtually unusable...
it was either upgrade to win 10, or wipe and try Linux etc..


Trying to get an outdated OS to run modern stuff will always be a gamble, and older games can normally run just fine (with some outliers) on modern hardware.... The games that don't are usually ported over, or rebuilt like Transport Tycoon was.


引用自 Start_Running

You know the funny thing is. WHy not just upgrade to W7. I mean lets be fair I've yet to see anything XP can do that 7 can't and when it comes to running games I've not seen one that doesn't actually run better on 7 than it did on XP.

Win 7 uses 2gb of ram, so that retro PC would be completely pointless on win 7. Win 10 uses less ram than 7, so would be a better choice...
And you were running XP with less than 2gigs of ram? I mean its not hard to grab some ddr2 ram sticks these days.
Liquid Inc 2023 年 3 月 7 日 上午 11:41 
引用自 Start_Running
And you were running XP with less than 2gigs of ram? I mean its not hard to grab some ddr2 ram sticks these days.

in the case of the OP, it's because it's a "retro" pc, so im guessing they want it that way?
CYZLAK 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:26 
引用自 Liquid Inc
引用自 Nomad
I... did? I built a Pentium 4 3 GHz, 2GB RAM, GeForce 7600 GS rig with Windows XP. That's what this whole topic is about. Welcome to it.


tbh, why not just run win 10 on it? it'll run on on around 1GB of ram, unlike Win 7 which has a minimum of 2gb... You'll be up to date, and things will work..
I actually ran a standard Win 10 install on a laptop with an old manky celeron and just 2gb of ram. It actually gave it a new lease of life, compared to keeping it on Win 7 as the 2nd 2gb ram stick failed and made win 7 virtually unusable...
it was either upgrade to win 10, or wipe and try Linux etc..


Trying to get an outdated OS to run modern stuff will always be a gamble, and older games can normally run just fine (with some outliers) on modern hardware.... The games that don't are usually ported over, or rebuilt like Transport Tycoon was.


引用自 Start_Running

You know the funny thing is. WHy not just upgrade to W7. I mean lets be fair I've yet to see anything XP can do that 7 can't and when it comes to running games I've not seen one that doesn't actually run better on 7 than it did on XP.

Win 7 uses 2gb of ram, so that retro PC would be completely pointless on win 7. Win 10 uses less ram than 7, so would be a better choice...

Just missed the entire point, once again. I'm not trying to run modern anything. I'm trying to play games made for Windows XP, on Windows XP. That's literally it.

I'd also ask at this point to stop perpetuating the lie that most or all games work on modern hardware. You can't just say that. I've had this game called Pool of Radiance, Ruins of Myth Drannor for 20+ years, it only installs and plays on WinXP, not 7, not 10, not in a VM, and the game actually kicks ass. That's just 1 example, there's probably a bunch of them. Those are the games I'm actually most interested in now, as I have WinXP working great, finding other games that won't run on anything else. I'm sure there's dozens of them, long forgotten and lost to time. Steam usually delists games like that. Another one is um, Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection. I can't remember what OS it was made for, but it doesn't run on W10, have to jump through hoops to get around the GFWL built into it, and afaik it's delisted. Or at least it was when I was pulling my hair out a couple years ago. Ended up just using MAME/Console to play it.
Mad Scientist 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:31 
引用自 Nomad
Another one is um, Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection. I can't remember what OS it was made for, but it doesn't run on W10
I've played that game without issues, no extra steps on Win10.

It's even in my Steam Library.

As for the other games, unfamiliar, but sometimes all you need to do is run one thing specifically or change options to get some older games to work, which is very low effort scenarios.
CYZLAK 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:36 
引用自 Bee🐝
OK OP, while I get wanting to run something for those purely retro, nostalgic feels...XP is kinda an odd choice.

Usually, we run MS-Dos, 3.1 or 95 because there's an actual noticeable difference to running currently incompatible games on older hardware, but with XP...it just seems a tiny bit pointless? I can't think of a single XP-era game that I can't run on Win11 right now.

So you can do it for the feelz, but then you have to chuck modern Steam as a launcher fully. Maybe find CD-boxed copies of those games? Note, even then, your main issue is that by the time we got to XP, CDkeys were already well-established things, so you'll have to buy sealed boxes. Obviously, there are always games that are now freeware.

You can't expect Valve to keep really ol' ♥♥♥♥ lying around in case someone feels the need to go slightly retro.

Edit: Oh and obviously, retro copies are only an option with single-player games - I don't see 2023 anti-cheat playing well with WinXP.

Actually, this just feels like an issue for which the answer is GOG.

Quite simply, WinXP era games are my jam. Unfortunately, this is also the terrible era of invasive, malicious DRM, so sometimes even sealed boxed copies can turn into a headache. But yes, Steam is forcing me to rebuy my games, never should have bought digital to start with, that is the takeaway. GOG is not always the answer, as the library lacks a lot of the bangers that released from 2000-2007 for one reason or another. The DOS/3.1/Win95 era is mostly solved on modern systems with DOSBox these days. I have ExoDOS, it covers that entire era for me, and everything runs perfectly. WinXP is a different beast, there are games from that era that won't even start up on other OS'es, so it's the challenge I've decided to focus on. I am sharing my journey and stories here, as I have never really posted on this forum before. It sure is a busy place!

Back on topic: Steam really has let me down. Valve need to patch it so their offline backups don't require a Steam client login to work , they just do. These are meant to be my games, this isn't a rental service, or so I thought, yet I'm locked out of thousands of dollars of purchases. Not acceptable IMO. You would have never seen me post if this was how it worked, I'd be blissfully gaming instead of typing. Why do they need a log in anyway? It's unnecessary DRM.
CYZLAK 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:39 
引用自 Mad Scientist
引用自 Nomad
Another one is um, Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection. I can't remember what OS it was made for, but it doesn't run on W10
I've played that game without issues, no extra steps on Win10.

It's even in my Steam Library.

As for the other games, unfamiliar, but sometimes all you need to do is run one thing specifically or change options to get some older games to work, which is very low effort scenarios.

Glad to read they've fixed it. If you search the game discussion forum, you'll see me and many others swearing a lot about how it was broken for a long, long time.
Crazy Tiger 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:41 
引用自 Nomad
Back on topic: Steam really has let me down. Valve need to patch it so their offline backups don't require a Steam client login to work , they just do. These are meant to be my games, this isn't a rental service, or so I thought, yet I'm locked out of thousands of dollars of purchases. Not acceptable IMO. You would have never seen me post if this was how it worked, I'd be blissfully gaming instead of typing. Why do they need a log in anyway? It's unnecessary DRM.
They're not your games. You only have licenses to access the game software through the platform for which the licenses are, which is Steam. And until the way licensing works changes by law, this won't change. Nor has Valve to do what you want.

You really should have read the SSA before creating the Steam account.
CYZLAK 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:49 
引用自 Crazy Tiger
引用自 Nomad
Back on topic: Steam really has let me down. Valve need to patch it so their offline backups don't require a Steam client login to work , they just do. These are meant to be my games, this isn't a rental service, or so I thought, yet I'm locked out of thousands of dollars of purchases. Not acceptable IMO. You would have never seen me post if this was how it worked, I'd be blissfully gaming instead of typing. Why do they need a log in anyway? It's unnecessary DRM.
They're not your games.
That is now painfully obvious
引用自 Crazy Tiger
You really should have read the SSA before creating the Steam account.
Get out here with that BS. No one ever reads that, and even if we did, we'd barely understand it. We all scroll down and click "I accept". No exceptions.
Crazy Tiger 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:50 
引用自 Nomad
引用自 Crazy Tiger
They're not your games.
That is now painfully obvious
引用自 Crazy Tiger
You really should have read the SSA before creating the Steam account.
Get out here with that BS. No one ever reads that, and even if we did, we'd barely understand it. We all scroll down and click "I accept". No exceptions.
Guess I'm an exception then.
Komarimaru 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:54 
To be fair, I've known we've not owned our games since the Apogee days. Even when ya mail ordered them, you are buying a license for a copy, you do not own it, cannot copy it and distribute it to others for all their games.

I mean, Wolf3D, Raptor(Awesome top down shooter), Blake Stone, Commander Keen 1-6, Monster Bash, Alien Carnage...

I could list the entire library, since still own all the original diskette's from the era lol Ya always bought a license back then too. Even with later games, you own a license not the game. Quake, Unreal, Duke3D, etc etc.
Liquid Inc 2023 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:55 
引用自 Nomad

Just missed the entire point, once again. I'm not trying to run modern anything. I'm trying to play games made for Windows XP, on Windows XP.

Then you already know the answer; you can't.

It's really that simple, and it's nothing to do with DRM. It's steam requiring you to prove you own the game. It's not that hard to understand?

As to the other things you've said? GFWL games run just fine under W10. I still have the original Gr1d, and yes that works, along with a number of that "era" games.
Gr1d does have some problems you have to work around, but it's not something that stops you from playing it, unlike much earlier DOS games which required a complete rewrite to work...


引用自 Nomad

Valve need to patch it so their offline backups don't require a Steam client login to work , they just do.

"I just wanna pirate games so i don't have to buy them"

Steam is made to make sure you own the game your attempting to run, because otherwise what's stopping me buying it and giving the game to all my mates for free?
The days of the disc is long gone, and to shut down any "but i could do that with a disc" arguments, if you own the disc only 1 person can use that disc at a time, no matter how many people you want to share it with..
But....
if i was to share my copy of Fallout 4 with everyone, and Steam didn't need to authenticate anything? .....
yeah that's going to end well isn't it? /s

引用自 Nomad
These are meant to be my games, this isn't a rental service, or so I thought, yet I'm locked out of thousands of dollars of purchases. Not acceptable IMO. You would have never seen me post if this was how it worked, I'd be blissfully gaming instead of typing. Why do they need a log in anyway? It's unnecessary DRM.

It *IS* a rental service though, you own absolutely NOTHING. You have "the right to play it" and nothing more. Naught. Nada, Nothing.
This is part of the agreement you accepted when you signed up to Steam (And IIRC is also in the one you have to accept when buying a game)

Why do they need you to authenticate the fact a different PC is attempting to play it? To stop people giving all their mates the game for free, which is actually a violation of the terms you agreed to...
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張貼日期: 2023 年 3 月 6 日 上午 1:53
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