What qualifies as DRM (Digital Rights Management) to you?

[Mid-Forever]

To me, regardless of what platform one is referencing (Steam, GOG, Playstation, iTunes, Amazon, EA, Nintendo, MAC, Linux, etc.), loss of ability to access and/or play a game after a company closure, account loss or server shutdown (in the case of MMO's and multiplayer games only) does not qualify as a DRM restriction put in place by said company or service. I don't like it, and it may be a byproduct of DRM, but it's not "DRM"...to me.

For me, DRM is a call (to remote or local location) made to see if I'm allowed to use something, regardless of whether the call is answered or not.

So, if Steam were to shut down and I couldn't play my games purchased from there, I would not blame DRM as some others would that I've spoken to recently.

I admit, I seem to be at odds with even the Wikipedia article on it...which, to me, that article looks to be comprised of more opinions than facts, guidelines or definitions.

(may edit that a few times as I'm not sure I've accurately relayed my feelings, heh)


Anywho, what qualifies as DRM (Digital Rights Management, in relation to video games for this thread) for you?

[Dakota]

A definition of Digital Rights Management can be found online.

Origineel geplaatst door searchcio.techtarget.com:

Digital rights management (DRM) is a systematic approach to copyright protection for digital media. The purpose of DRM is to prevent unauthorized redistribution of digital media and restrict the ways consumers can copy content they've purchased. DRM products were developed in response to the rapid increase in online piracy of commercially marketed material, which proliferated through the widespread use of peer-to-peer file exchange programs.

[Mid-Forever]

Origineel geplaatst door Dakota:

A definition of Digital Rights Management can be found online.

Origineel geplaatst door searchcio.techtarget.com:

Digital rights management (DRM) is a systematic approach to copyright protection for digital media. The purpose of DRM is to prevent unauthorized redistribution of digital media and restrict the ways consumers can copy content they've purchased. DRM products were developed in response to the rapid increase in online piracy of commercially marketed material, which proliferated through the widespread use of peer-to-peer file exchange programs.

Good job. Now, what does that mean to you?

Do you feel that having your games locked to a service, such as Steam, qualifies as a form of DRM because they would be inaccessible if Valve went out of business?
Do you feel that Steam should allow download of the install .exe's?
Do you feel that a company, such as GOG.com, is using the term correctly and is truly any different from Steam?
...or is it just a term they've glommed onto and use as marketing because few people understand what it really means and instead use it as an umbrella term to encompass almost anything that might one day stop them from accessing their game?
Do you feel anything else?

Do you have examples of what *you* think are forms of DRM?

[Dakota]

Origineel geplaatst door Mid-Forever:

Origineel geplaatst door Dakota:

A definition of Digital Rights Management can be found online.

Origineel geplaatst door searchcio.techtarget.com:

Digital rights management (DRM) is a systematic approach to copyright protection for digital media. The purpose of DRM is to prevent unauthorized redistribution of digital media and restrict the ways consumers can copy content they've purchased. DRM products were developed in response to the rapid increase in online piracy of commercially marketed material, which proliferated through the widespread use of peer-to-peer file exchange programs.

Good job. Now, what does that mean to you?

Do you feel that having your games locked to a service, such as Steam, qualifies as a form of DRM because they would be inaccessible if Valve went out of business?
Do you feel that a company, such as GOG.com, is using the term correctly and is truly any different from Steam?
...or is it just a term they've glommed onto and use as marketing because few people understand what it really means and instead use it as an umbrella term to encompass almost anything that might one day stop them from accessing their game?

Do you have examples of what *you* think are forms of DRM?

To me, it means exactly what it describes. I think you're trying to read far too into something that's not there

[Mid-Forever]

I'm trying to understand why it seems very difficult for other people to understand what it truly stands for.

At least 2 recent conversationsI've been involved in have displayed some really screwy misconceptions, and I just don't get why it's so confusing to some.

[Dakota]

Origineel geplaatst door Mid-Forever:

I'm trying to understand why it seems very difficult for other people to understand what it truly stands for.

People generally don't put forth any effort to research anything to any degree. I'd be willing to bet money that most people that complain about DRM can't even define it upon request (digital rights management).

[TombRaiser]

The way I understand it, or how I'd like it to be if Valve were to go under would be that any game that I have that has a DRM like Uplay, that I'd still be able to access my Uplay games in the event that Valve/Steam went under.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Origineel geplaatst door Mid-Forever:

I'm trying to understand why it seems very difficult for other people to understand what it truly stands for.

There is no universal, standardised, definition, so this is not a matter of "truly understanding". It's simply a matter of different people having slightly different ideas about something. That's okay.

Personally, your definition seems pretty weird to me. I mean great, okay, you talk about games calling home, so far so good. But when the calling home fails and so doesn't grant access, you distance yourself from "blaming" that behaviour. I don't really see how you reconcile that and still have DRM mean anything at all. But hey, I don't have to.

[Dakota]

Origineel geplaatst door Gus the Crocodile:

Origineel geplaatst door Mid-Forever:

I'm trying to understand why it seems very difficult for other people to understand what it truly stands for.

There is no universal, standardised, definition

There is a definition. Maybe looking for a different DRM, like Digital Restriction Management, or Digital Resource Management. Anyways, DRM is an acronym, it's an acronym for a lot of different things.

The reason why no one can ever figure out what DRM is or stands for is because no one ever states specifically what they're talking about or just doesn't know what they're talking about.

Just look here, perfect example thread, asking about DRM, and mention it, but never specified what DRM you're talking about.

[Mid-Forever]

Origineel geplaatst door Gus the Crocodile:

Origineel geplaatst door Mid-Forever:

I'm trying to understand why it seems very difficult for other people to understand what it truly stands for.

There is no universal, standardised, definition, so this is not a matter of "truly understanding". It's simply a matter of different people having slightly different ideas about something. That's okay.

Personally, your definition seems pretty weird to me. I mean great, okay, you talk about games calling home, so far so good. But when the calling home fails and so doesn't grant access, you distance yourself from "blaming" that behaviour. I don't really see how you reconcile that and still have DRM mean anything at all. But hey, I don't have to.

I knew that line was poorly written and would get me in trouble.

The call that's made is the DRM's form...the rest of the sentence is just fluff text (I'm forever guilty of overly wordy...anything...fully admit that).

Origineel geplaatst door Dakota:

Just look here, perfect example thread, you're asking about DRM, and mention it, but never specified what DRM you're talking about.

Good point, fixed in OP.

[Dakota]

Origineel geplaatst door Mid-Forever:

Origineel geplaatst door Gus the Crocodile:

There is no universal, standardised, definition, so this is not a matter of "truly understanding". It's simply a matter of different people having slightly different ideas about something. That's okay.

Personally, your definition seems pretty weird to me. I mean great, okay, you talk about games calling home, so far so good. But when the calling home fails and so doesn't grant access, you distance yourself from "blaming" that behaviour. I don't really see how you reconcile that and still have DRM mean anything at all. But hey, I don't have to.

I knew that line was poorly written and would get me in trouble.

The call that's made is the DRM's form...the rest of the sentence is just fluff text (I'm forever guilty of overly wordy...anything...fully admit that).

Without fluff, no one would make it past things like lengthy composition assignments in school (which I'm glad to be done with forever), or emails to relatives and friends (because short ones look lazy and uncaring), don't feel bad about it, we all use it

[Dakota]

I think what it really boils down to, are these three things. Digital Rights management, Data Resource Management, and Digital Restrictions Management. I think people talk about these three things all at the same time without realizing it, causing a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding that results in a lot of discussion or direction that goes nowhere.

As the humans we are, we all think we're on the same page at once when we're actually all littered throughout the pages.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Origineel geplaatst door Dakota:

There is a definition.

I didn't say otherwise. Of course there's a definition. There's all sorts of definitions. You've pulled one from "searchcio.techtarget.com", whatever that is. Other people will write their own definitions that may differ slightly. That's all I was saying: I was objecting to the idea that people who don't share all the details of the OP's view on the matter are having "difficulty understanding". Rather, it's entirely likely they just don't agree.

And yes, I'm talking about Digital Rights Management. Digital "Restrictions" Management is term coined by ideological opponents of DRM: it refers to exactly the same thing, it just highlights the negative aspect. So there's no need to wonder about which of those I mean, because they're the same concept.

I've never heard the term "digital resource management", but perhaps it's yet another way of saying the same thing. Or perhaps it isn't, I wouldn't know. Regardless, for clarity, it wasn't the term I had in my head.

[Dakota]

Origineel geplaatst door Gus the Crocodile:

Origineel geplaatst door Dakota:

There is a definition.

I didn't say otherwise. Of course there's a definition. There's all sorts of definitions. You've pulled one from "searchcio.techtarget.com", whatever that is. Other people will write their own definitions that may differ slightly. That's all I was saying: I was objecting to the idea that people who don't share all the details of the OP's view on the matter are having "difficulty understanding". Rather, it's entirely likely they just don't agree.

And yes, I'm talking about Digital Rights Management. Digital "Restrictions" Management is term coined by ideological opponents of DRM: it refers to exactly the same thing, it just highlights the negative aspect. So there's no need to wonder about which of those I mean, because they're the same concept.

I've never heard the term "digital resource management", but perhaps it's yet another way of saying the same thing. Or perhaps it isn't, I wouldn't know. Regardless, for clarity, it wasn't the term I had in my head.

Digital rights is defensive, digital restrictions is more sided to be offensive, and digital resource is just general management of resources, could be shuffling of digital stock, sale prices, etc etc. They're each a little different

[Mid-Forever]

Origineel geplaatst door Gus the Crocodile:

I've never heard the term "digital resource management", but perhaps it's yet another way of saying the same thing. Or perhaps it isn't, I wouldn't know. Regardless, for clarity, it wasn't the term I had in my head.

Since I think Dakota is right, and this isn't going to go anywhere, I'll derail it myself.

Digital resource managment...think the Dewey Decimal System at the library, but for large amounts of digital information (at, say, a library for example...heh).

I'll leave it at this for today:
If the possibility of Valve going out of business and your games becoming inaccessible due to the loss of Steam, that doesn't make Steam, as a service in and of itself, DRM. It makes you plainly SOL (♥♥♥♥ outta luck)...but not it DRM.
(Steam's CEG aside, of course)

[Gus the Crocodile]

Origineel geplaatst door Dakota:

Digital rights is defensive, digital restrictions is more sided to be offensive, and digital resource is just general management of resources, could be shuffling of digital stock, sale prices, etc etc. They're each a little different

Wikipedia notes Stallman's use of "digital restrictions management" to refer to what others termed "digital rights management", as I wrote. That has been taken on by others over the years as various groups like Defective By Design ran campaigns on the topic. I have no idea what you mean by "defensive" and "offensive", but I'll stick to how I've always known the terms to be used. Have a good weekend everyone.