Gambling: Steam are going to close all the gambling csgo sites?

[NOTdeduction]

Hello,
What do you think about the gamble sites? all the csgo gamble sites!
I heard that almost all the Team Fortress 2 gamble sites are now closed.
You think like steam are going to close all the ''illegal'' sites?

[ZomBieBot]

Valve says:

"In 2011, we added a feature to Steam that enabled users to trade in-game items as a way to make it easier for people to get the items they wanted in games featuring in-game economies.

Since then a number of gambling sites started leveraging the Steam trading system, and there’s been some false assumptions about our involvement with these sites. We’d like to clarify that we have no business relationships with any of these sites. We have never received any revenue from them. And Steam does not have a system for turning in-game items into real world currency.

These sites have basically pieced together their operations in a two-part fashion. First, they are using the OpenID API as a way for users to prove ownership of their Steam accounts and items. Any other information they obtain about a user's Steam account is either manually disclosed by the user or obtained from the user’s Steam Community profile (when the user has chosen to make their profile public). Second, they create automated Steam accounts that make the same web calls as individual Steam users.

Using the OpenID API and making the same web calls as Steam users to run a gambling business is not allowed by our API nor our user agreements. We are going to start sending notices to these sites requesting they cease operations through Steam, and further pursue the matter as necessary. Users should probably consider this information as they manage their in-game item inventory and trade activity.

-Erik Johnson"

But:

Valve let minors gamble not only via "gamblinbg sites" but provides also a way to do this in "valves home"

1.) There is no functioning age verification system - only self declaration, as we all know, there are a lot of prepubescent playing csgo, despite they should not.

2.) Valve drops and sells weapon cases as well as keys to open them: this is a kind of gambling as your chances to get a skin more worth than Key and Case is extremely rare, thus beeing a roulette type gambling (where minors are not hold off to participate).

If a good lawyer would take care of that aspect, this could bring Valve into a lot of trouble.

[Start_Running]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

But:

Valve let minors gamble not only via "gamblinbg sites" but provides also a way to do this in "valves home"

No gambling actually occured on Valve's site. These minors should also have been under proper supervision by their legal guardians.

1.) There is no functioning age verification system - only self declaration, as we all know, there are a lot of prepubescent playing csgo, despite they should not.

There can never be such a system because it will always depend on information provided by the user. People will lie. Even the age check system on adult websites only really check if you have access to a credit card. Again, ensuring that minors are not accessing content they should not is the responsibility of the minor's legal guardian.

2.) Valve drops and sells weapon cases as well as keys to open them: this is a kind of gambling as your chances to get a skin more worth than Key and Case is extremely rare, thus beeing a roulette type gambling (where minors are not hold off to participate).

It has been clearly stated to not be gambling. Gambling in all forms is where one has a possibility of getting nothing for the money they spend. This is no more gambling than buying a pack of CCG cards or stickers or trading cards Or heck even one of those guymball, toy vending machines.

If a good lawyer would take care of that aspect, this could bring Valve into a lot of trouble.

A good lawyer would basically know they have no chance of getting this in any court. Let us put it this way. China and Japan have *VERY* strict laws concerning what is considered gambling. The current crate system is not considered to be gambling by either country. IT is simply seen as a form of blind purchase.

[ZomBieBot]

Thanks for the reply.

I am actually a parent, and I in contrast to many others am affine to computer things from a long period of time. But it is not possible to prevent kids installing steam, to prevent them buying games on steam with paysafecard.
If I would shut down internet completely at home, they could get it at school or elsewhere (open Wlan at MacDonalds etc. There is no way for parents to avoid that in any reasonable way.

So not parents, but Valve has to provide a valid age verifikation system, even when it means their profit marge will be lower.

There are age verification systems which work btw.

"It has been clearly stated to not be gambling. Gambling in all forms is where one has a possibility of getting nothing for the money they spend. This is no more gambling than buying a pack of CCG cards or stickers or trading cards Or heck even one of those guymball, toy vending machines."

If u get a skin worth 5 to 10 cents from an investment of 5 USD or € (gamma case + key) this is a kind of gambling. Some (underage) kids buy hundreds of Keys and Cases.

"A good lawyer would basically know they have no chance of getting this in any court. Let us put it this way. China and Japan have *VERY* strict laws concerning what is considered gambling. The current crate system is not considered to be gambling by either country. IT is simply seen as a form of blind purchase."

It looks like a slot machine, the percentage of winning a good skin is not declared etc. So it is gambling. Even when u play classic roulette in casino u can calculate how your chance of winning is. Here u cannot, but the slot machine type aspect suggests a better winning chance then actually is.

[Darren]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

There are age verification systems which work btw.

Name one.

[Start_Running]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Thanks for the reply.

I am actually a parent, and I in contrast to many others am affine to computer things from a long period of time. But it is not possible to prevent kids installing steam, to prevent them buying games on steam with paysafecard.

Limit them to a simple USe account on the computer they use. Installation of most applicartions requires administrative rights. As for buying games on steam.. well. you have control over their income yes?

There are many, many ways. I mean your kid doesn't technically need their own machine. Have a family PC in the living room or other open area of your house. Bam.

If I would shut down internet completely at home, they could get it at school or elsewhere (open Wlan at MacDonalds etc. There is no way for parents to avoid that in any reasonable way.

In the case of schools, then you can bring the matter up at schools. M<ost educational institutions have blacklisted sites that cannot be accessed through their networks. You as a concerned parent may ask them to add steam to that list.

And again. restricting their ability to use a laptop , such as not buying them one.. helps alot. As said. Plenty of ways to do these things. If you actually are looking to do them and not looking for a hole in the bucket.

So not parents, but Valve has to provide a valid age verifikation system, even when it means their profit marge will be lower.

Yes, and Valve has one, and like most of them they rely on your little urchins not being filthy liars. If they are.. then you have failed in your own parental responsibilities. :=) As said,. Even porn sites have given up on that front. There is no way to verify the identity of the person on the other end of a network connection, muych less verify information about them.

There are age verification systems which work btw.

Name one. Because as said, the most they can do is verify that you have access to a credit card and if you've raised the sort of loin spawn that would lie, they'd probably think nothing of borrowing your credit card when you're not looking, :-).

If u get a skin worth 5 to 10 cents from an investment of 5 USD or € (gamma case + key) this is a kind of gambling. Some (underage) kids buy hundreds of Keys and Cases.

No it is a blind purchase. I.e you got something of value. You got an uitem. Where as say a slot machine or such will many times not pay out anything. That's gambling. A scratch and win ticket orn lotto ticket will yield nothing. See the difference.

It looks like a slot machine, the percentage of winning a good skin is not declared etc. So it is gambling. Even when u play classic roulette in casino u can calculate how your chance of winning is. Here u cannot, but the slot machine type aspect suggests a better winning chance then actually is.

A goiod skinn is the skin a particular player wants. There is no way to tell what skin a platyer wants and therefore no way to predict. The definition. of good is subjecrtive to each player.. Much like trading cards.

What alarms me is that you have spent a lot of thouight in explaining why you are powerless to police the actions of the children that are your legal responsibility. YOu control their access to computers, internet and such. Hell you could if you want specifically bliock their machines fropm accessing STeam on your home network if you want to get fancy.. YOu could also ask McDonalds to do the same if enough other parents share your conern and if your school isn't already doing ikt, they are being negligent and lax,.

Your kids, your responsibility. Can't handle it, should have used a condom.

[ZomBieBot]

Verification system online banks use: If u plan to open an online banking account u need to come to a post office with your passport, which then is checked and then u get the login details in an envelope.

[eram]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Verification system online banks use: If u plan to open an online banking account u need to come to a post office with your passport, which then is checked and then u get the login details in an envelope.

What country is that because you do not have to visit a post office with a passport in order to use online banking. All my online banking applications were made.... online.

[Darren]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Verification system online banks use: If u plan to open an online banking account u need to come to a post office with your passport, which then is checked and then u get the login details in an envelope.

So you want to provide Valve with all of your proof of identity documents (that they normally don't require)? Which would put tons of additional cost on the gathering and storage of said data (in order to ensure it was secure and prevent Valve being vulnerable to massive lawsuits), and wouldn't actually prevent anything (someone underage could use an account made by someone else who was of age and could provide the information).

Not to mention Valve would have to hire experts in proof of identity documentation in every single country in the world to verify these documents (to prevent fraudulent ones being supplied).

[Start_Running]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Verification system online banks use: If u plan to open an online banking account u need to come to a post office with your passport, which then is checked and then u get the login details in an envelope.

And if you don't see the glaring loophole.. you are legally blind. YOu do know that the person who creates the account and logs into the account can potentially be two different people right?

[ZomBieBot]

What alarms me is that you have spent a lot of thouight in explaining why you are powerless to police the actions of the children that are your legal responsibility. YOu control their access to computers, internet and such. Hell you could if you want specifically bliock their machines fropm accessing STeam on your home network if you want to get fancy.. YOu could also ask McDonalds to do the same if enough other parents share your conern and if your school isn't already doing ikt, they are being negligent and lax,.

Your kids, your responsibility. Can't handle it, should have used a condom.

Thank u for this advice, no i cant complain, my kids do not gamble online, and they asked me the 2 times they opened a case. I am not worried about my children, but I am worried about the system which allows so much greyzone and transfers responsibility to parents such as u do now. And my employer has blocked steam, but i am actually writing from there via vpn.

[Start_Running]

Darren eredeti hozzászólása:

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Verification system online banks use: If u plan to open an online banking account u need to come to a post office with your passport, which then is checked and then u get the login details in an envelope.

So you want to provide Valve with all of your proof of identity documents (that they normally don't require)? Which would put tons of additional cost on the gathering and storage of said data (in order to ensure it was secure and prevent Valve being vulnerable to massive lawsuits), and wouldn't actually prevent anything (someone underage could use an account made by someone else who was of age and could provide the information).

There's also the fact that one must have a way to verify the validity of the proof which means access to the registry database of a given country's government. Most countries do not allow that.

Not to mention Valve would have to hire experts in proof of identity documentation in every single country in the world to verify these documents (to prevent fraudulent ones being supplied).

And even then there is once more the glaring loophole. IT's actually an old one. Get someone's older sibling to create an account for you and bam.

[ZomBieBot]

Darren eredeti hozzászólása:

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Verification system online banks use: If u plan to open an online banking account u need to come to a post office with your passport, which then is checked and then u get the login details in an envelope.

So you want to provide Valve with all of your proof of identity documents (that they normally don't require)? Which would put tons of additional cost on the gathering and storage of said data (in order to ensure it was secure and prevent Valve being vulnerable to massive lawsuits), and wouldn't actually prevent anything (someone underage could use an account made by someone else who was of age and could provide the information).

Not to mention Valve would have to hire experts in proof of identity documentation in every single country in the world to verify these documents (to prevent fraudulent ones being supplied).

Valve does that. If you have more than 200 listings on steam market per calender year u need to fill out a form where have to supply all data, which then is checked by a company who does indentification proofs.

[Start_Running]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Darren eredeti hozzászólása:

So you want to provide Valve with all of your proof of identity documents (that they normally don't require)? Which would put tons of additional cost on the gathering and storage of said data (in order to ensure it was secure and prevent Valve being vulnerable to massive lawsuits), and wouldn't actually prevent anything (someone underage could use an account made by someone else who was of age and could provide the information).

Not to mention Valve would have to hire experts in proof of identity documentation in every single country in the world to verify these documents (to prevent fraudulent ones being supplied).

Valve does that. If you have more than 200 listings per calender year u need to fill out a form where have to supply all data, which then is checked by a company who does indentification proofs.

Actually they don't really and that is only done because of US law. If you are outside the US or such you needn't bother.

[Darren]

noobgirl eredeti hozzászólása:

Valve does that. If you have more than 200 listings per calender year u need to fill out a form where have to supply all data, which then is checked by a company who does indentification proofs.

Actually Valve subcontracts it, and you need to fill in an IRS form (with associated details) or in the case of any country not the US tick a box saying I'm not a US resident and that's it (unless Valve thinks you are lying then you need to send a scan of your passport which they can't even prove is yours). This process takes weeks (in some cases more than a year) simply because verifying these things is hard.

[ZomBieBot]

Start_Running and Darren, u both think it is okay that underage children watch porn or play games for that they are not old enough cause it is not possible to have a functioning age control system ??

My opinion is, if one provides such content, it is his responsibility to take care, that current law is not broken. You can not transfer this responsibility to underage kids, Like It or not !!