Kingdom Hearts on Steam...PLEASE!!!

[The Brick Separator]

Does anyone else want Kingdom Hearts to come to Steam? It's my favorite series and would love an easier way to play it on the Steam Deck! I don't want to buy the Epic Games version because I don't know if I'll be able to get it to work with my limited PC gamer knowledge. I would love a native Steam version instead! Maybe there's a chance with all of the games coming over to Steam from other stores lately.

[The Brick Separator]

Escrito originalmente por IronHelianthus:

I can imagine the mountain of paperwork to licence all the different ip. Disney seems to be well established on steam though, so I don't think it would be that much of an obstacle.
Perhaps they will release in late February after a year on switch , or perhaps, and fingers crossed, if KH IV is released on steam.
But that is speculation encouraged from squares recent actions.

KH4 would be great to come on Steam alongside the rest of the series. I'm not sure where I'll buy the game on since I would like to have it on Steam the most.

[Crashed]

Escrito originalmente por The Brick Separator:

Escrito originalmente por C10 Revamp:

It's under a seemingly long exclusivity contract with Epic, but nothing stopping them releasing it on Steam once it expires. Epic did supposedly help Square with the PC port (seeing as they own Unreal Engine), but it's hard to tell just how much they were involved.

That does concern me. I know there's a lot of other games on Steam that use unreal engine, but you never know.

Does Epic still waive royalties for Unreal Engine on EGS?

[Eddiejay328]

Escrito originalmente por Cathulhu:

Up to the publisher. Which would be SquareEnix.

And if you know how to buy and download Steamgames, the Epic Games Store is no different in that regard.

Steam deck sir/ma'am. Getting the EPIC version to work is still a nighmare and most still cant get it to work.

[Blupanda]

This decision would up to Square and Disney, Valve wouldn’t be able to release it on Steam without their approval.

[Cathulhu]

Again, still up to the publisher. Which decided to take the bribe money from Epic Games for an exclusivity deal.

[Zero, Dark Knight]

I agree, Sony vs Microsoft lawsuit proved that exclusivity deals and the like are garbage and bad for everyone.

No more exclusive games to one platform or another. :/ start being harder on the publishers and companies if they refuse to sell all their products

[Blupanda]

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Escrito originalmente por The Brick Separator:

That does concern me. I know there's a lot of other games on Steam that use unreal engine, but you never know.

Does Epic still waive royalties for Unreal Engine on EGS?

Their regular royalty payments are 12%, but they will reduce it if developers use Unreal Engine. Not sure if they reduce it down to 0%, but it would definitely be less than 12%.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Blupanda:

Escrito originalmente por Crashed:

Does Epic still waive royalties for Unreal Engine on EGS?

Their regular royalty payments are 12%, but they will reduce it if developers use Unreal Engine. Not sure if they reduce it down to 0%, but it would definitely be less than 12%.

EGS sale cut is 12% it does not get lower.

Epic royalty for games using unreal is 5%, this is waived if sold via EGS, but not anywhere else.

[Blupanda]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Blupanda:

Their regular royalty payments are 12%, but they will reduce it if developers use Unreal Engine. Not sure if they reduce it down to 0%, but it would definitely be less than 12%.

EGS sale cut is 12% it does not get lower.

Epic royalty for games using unreal is 5%, this is waived if sold via EGS, but not anywhere else.

Ahh I see you mean. I thought the EGS royalty fee is reduced/waived if developers use Unreal Engine. Turns out to be the other way around (Unreal Engine royalty is waived if the game is sold via EGS). Really aggressive marketing strategy from Epic Games. Get Unreal Engine in addition to an online store for the games to sell at.

[RiO]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Epic royalty for games using unreal is 5%, this is waived if sold via EGS, but not anywhere else.

Interesting. Afaict that deal would become illegal in the EU under the new Digital Markets Act.

Epic is using an asset that has close to monopoly gatekeeper status (Unreal Engine tech) to give their EGS store front an unfair advantage compared to competitors by conditioning the royalty payments for UE on publication through EGS.

This is a direct violation of article 6.12 from that regulation:

The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9).

as using different tariffs for royalties on the engine depending on whether the user publishes through EGS or not, is in fact discriminatory.

[Blupanda]

Escrito originalmente por RiO:

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Epic royalty for games using unreal is 5%, this is waived if sold via EGS, but not anywhere else.

Interesting. Afaict that deal would become illegal in the EU under the new Digital Markets Act.

Epic is using an asset that has close to monopoly gatekeeper status (Unreal Engine tech) to give their EGS store front an unfair advantage compared to competitors by conditioning the royalty payments for UE on publication through EGS.

This is a direct violation of article 6.12 from that regulation:

The gatekeeper shall apply fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory general conditions of access for business users to its software application stores, online search engines and online social networking services listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9).

as using different tariffs for royalties on the engine depending on whether the user publishes through EGS or not, is in fact discriminatory.

I doubt Epic Games would get in trouble over this. Let’s suppose monopoly regulators ask Epic “if you are happy to waive fees for Unreal Engine games purchased on EGS, why not waive those same fees for Unreal Engine games purchased from Steam as well”. Epic can fight back by saying “if we waive fees for Unreal Engine games purchased from Steam, then we make absolutely zero money from Unreal Engine, therefore we will discontinue the software”.

Think about it: if Epic Games waived fees for Unreal Engine games across all platforms, then Unreal Engine has literally no purpose for existing since it makes zero money. At least if you buy the Unreal Engine game on EGS then they make 12% store royalty money. If that is not considered reasonable, then I don’t know what is. Regulators cannot force Epic to release Unreal Engine for free. There is nothing wrong with making money.

[RiO]

Escrito originalmente por Blupanda:

Escrito originalmente por RiO:

Interesting. Afaict that deal would become illegal in the EU under the new Digital Markets Act.

Epic is using an asset that has close to monopoly gatekeeper status (Unreal Engine tech) to give their EGS store front an unfair advantage compared to competitors by conditioning the royalty payments for UE on publication through EGS.

This is a direct violation of article 6.12 from that regulation:


as using different tariffs for royalties on the engine depending on whether the user publishes through EGS or not, is in fact discriminatory.

I doubt Epic Games would get in trouble over this. Let’s suppose monopoly regulators ask Epic “if you are happy to waive fees for Unreal Engine games purchased on EGS, why not waive those same fees for Unreal Engine games purchased from Steam as well”. Epic can fight back by saying “if we waive fees for Unreal Engine games purchased from Steam, then we make absolutely zero money from Unreal Engine, therefore we will discontinue the software”.

Think about it: if Epic Games waived fees for Unreal Engine games across all platforms, then Unreal Engine has literally no purpose for existing since it makes zero money. At least if you buy the Unreal Engine game on EGS then they make 12% store royalty money. If that is not considered reasonable, then I don’t know what is. Regulators cannot force Epic to release Unreal Engine for free. There is nothing wrong with making money.

I'd think the practical application of it would be the reverse.
That is: not being allowed to waive royalty fees when publishing through EGS.

[RiO]

Escrito originalmente por Eiswolfin:

Escrito originalmente por RiO:

Interesting. Afaict that deal would become illegal in the EU under the new Digital Markets Act.

Epic is using an asset that has close to monopoly gatekeeper status (Unreal Engine tech) to give their EGS store front an unfair advantage compared to competitors by conditioning the royalty payments for UE on publication through EGS.

This is a direct violation of article 6.12 from that regulation:


as using different tariffs for royalties on the engine depending on whether the user publishes through EGS or not, is in fact discriminatory.

Unreal Engine wouldn't have gatekeeper status because it only has around 14% market share:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4563297-unity-software-likely-lose-market-share-recession

and Epic Store doesn't have gatekeeper status either

Note that the EU commission can designate a company as a gatekeeper even when it does not meet the actual thresholds as defined in article 3.2, provided it does still meet the characteristics as per article 3.1 -- which Epic does.

This prerogative is enshrined in article 3.8 and one of the reasons they can invoke it is when an untertaking features "(f) a conglomerate corporate structure or vertical integration of that undertaking, for instance enabling that undertaking to cross subsidise"

Which is effectively what Epic is doing by waiving royalties on UE offsetting them against the 12% cut for sales through EGS.

Similarly, article 3.8 could be invoked for undertakings that feature "(e) business user or end user lock-in, including switching costs and behavioural bias reducing the ability of business users and end users to switch or multi-home"

Which certainly applies to a digital distribution platform that aims to have users centralize their access and consumption of content via a curated library.


( For reference: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32022R1925&from=EN#d1e1494-1-1 )




Anyway; back on topic:
the reason KH hasn't come to Steam yet is probably that it's still under exclusivity with Epic.
Disney and SE aren't stupid. The franchise prints money and as soon as it's liberated from EGS and arrives on Steam, that means yet another rush of essentially free cash - considering all the development and bugfixing on the PC ports is already done, and probably paid for up front through Epic's exclusivity deal. That's the reason companies go for that deal.

(And is another reason Epic could be classified as a gatekeeper under art 3.8f of the DMA; because EGS afaik doesn't break even and all the exclusivity deals are financed from earnings from UE licenses; Fortnite micro-pay; and investment money...)

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

I'm not sure how Epic Games and EU remotely matters, like Valve, their HQ is in the united states and from prior people's threads I've seen, Valve only adheres to the laws of the united states and the state of Washington, if their the same (Epic I mean) then the only laws that apply to them is the United states and the state of North Carolina.

And just confirming this now: Yes Epic Games is a private company, so their like Valve so basically non-US laws don't apply to them unless they allow it, if they dont then the EU has only themselves to blame for not reading the fine print.

Hell in the User agreement it literally states in sections 10, 11 for Steam...and...
https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/eula
Epic has theirs also in section 11: You agree that this Agreement will be deemed to have been made and executed in the State of North Carolina, U.S.A., and any dispute will be resolved in accordance with the laws of North Carolina, excluding that body of law related to choice of laws, and of the United States of America. Any action or proceeding brought to enforce the terms of this Agreement or to adjudicate any dispute must be brought in the Superior Court of Wake County, State of North Carolina or the United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina. You agree to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of these courts. You waive any claim of inconvenient forum and any right to a jury trial. The Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods will not apply. Any law or regulation which provides that the language of a contract shall be construed against the drafter will not apply to this Agreement.

[Aachen]

It’s possible that the arbitration requirements or other waivers will not be seen as valid.