About Denuvo

[wendy4547]

While I already played a lot of PC games since the 90s, forgive me for my lack of insights about certain technical things. I'm not a tech-savvy guy.

I don't get why a lot of people hate Denuvo. We are living in 2022 and most gamer here already have decent (even powerful) PC that can handle a lot of things, so why all the hate?

If not because of performance impact, maybe Denuvo is some kind of spyware that steals personal data? Or something worse?

[Supafly]

I suspect the performance impact would be the main thing. Once the game has been cracked and a pirated version is available online it kinda makes it some what pointless. I also don't really see the need if it's been released on different platforms that is required to run the game. You essentially have 2 different DRM's which kinda renders the need for 1 of them.

If they allowed, let's say the Steam Version to be ran without Steam being loaded then sure the Denuvo DRM works as a single DRM. But if Steam is required why do you really need 2?

[lukaself]

Performance isn't actually the main issue. Denuvo is a DRM which needs a recurrent online connection but not a constant one so you can play offline for a while. However, the duration of the offline token is at the liberty of the publisher and is never disclosed. If you trigger Denuvo for any reason, it locks you out of the game for 24 hours at which point you need to go back online to re-validate.

You can see it happening on video here: Can't play MH:Rise because of DRM (live in front of 60k viewers)[clips.twitch.tv]
Also if Denuvo servers are down on their side, games without a valid activation token will not start, online or not: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/a-great-day-for-drm-as-denuvo-lapse-renders-tons-of-games-temporarily-unplayable/

A few developers also came on record citing performance issues for refusing to use it: https://www.pcgamer.com/humankind-drops-denuvo-ahead-of-launch-to-avoid-performance-problems/.

If you want to know more about the technical side of Denuvo without the usual bias of the Steam forums, you can consult this wiki : https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Denuvo

[wendy4547]

Originally posted by Supafly:

I suspect the performance impact would be the main thing. Once the game has been cracked and a pirated version is available online it kinda makes it some what pointless. I also don't really see the need if it's been released on different platforms that is required to run the game. You essentially have 2 different DRM's which kinda renders the need for 1 of them.

If they allowed, let's say the Steam Version to be ran without Steam being loaded then sure the Denuvo DRM works as a single DRM. But if Steam is required why do you really need 2?

Oh, I see. That's like running a Ubisoft game from Steam and the game forces us to use Ubisoft services. Yeah, that sucks to have Steam and Ubisoft services running on background just to play single player game that doesn't even need internet connection.

[wendy4547]

Originally posted by lukaself:

Performance isn't actually the main issue. Denuvo is a DRM which needs a recurrent online connection but not a constant one so you can play offline for a while. However, the duration of the offline token is at the liberty of the publisher and is never disclosed. If you trigger Denuvo for any reason, it locks you out of the game for 24 hours at which point you need to go back online to re-validate.

You can see it happening on video here: Can't play MH:Rise because of DRM (live in front of 60k viewers)[clips.twitch.tv]
Also if Denuvo servers are down on their side, games without a valid activation token will not start, online or not: https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/a-great-day-for-drm-as-denuvo-lapse-renders-tons-of-games-temporarily-unplayable/

A few developers also came on record citing performance issues for refusing to use it: https://www.pcgamer.com/humankind-drops-denuvo-ahead-of-launch-to-avoid-performance-problems/.

If you want to know more about the technical side of Denuvo without the usual bias of the Steam forums, you can consult this wiki : https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Denuvo

Thanks for the insights. This really helps me to understand.

[lukaself]

Originally posted by Wendy Lim:

Thanks for the insights. This really helps me to understand.

You're welcome

[Supafly]

Originally posted by Wendy Lim:

Oh, I see. That's like running a Ubisoft game from Steam and the game forces us to use Ubisoft services. Yeah, that sucks to have Steam and Ubisoft services running on background just to play single player game that doesn't even need internet connection.

Ubi, EA and others forcing their platform is also ran is one thing. Denuvo is different if you had Denuvo on a Ubi game that you purchased on Steam you'd need Steam and Ubi clients open and the game would still be using Denuvo. So essentially 3 different DRM

[lukaself]

Originally posted by Supafly:

Originally posted by Wendy Lim:

Oh, I see. That's like running a Ubisoft game from Steam and the game forces us to use Ubisoft services. Yeah, that sucks to have Steam and Ubisoft services running on background just to play single player game that doesn't even need internet connection.

Ubi, EA and others forcing their platform is also ran is one thing. Denuvo is different if you had Denuvo on a Ubi game that you purchased on Steam you'd need Steam and Ubi clients open and the game would still be using Denuvo. So essentially 3 different DRM

4 or 5 even. Ubisoft are using VMProtect on top of Denuvo which already uses a version of VMProtect for encryption... on top of their own in-house encryption+validation, add Steam on that pile and you know why I haven't bought any Ubisoft game in ten years.

[Supafly]

Originally posted by lukaself:

4 or 5 even. Ubisoft are using VMProtect on top of Denuvo which already uses a version of VMProtect for encryption... on top of their own in-house encryption+validation.

Did not know that. Haven't played any Ubi games on PC for years so clearly my data is a little old. Just reinforces my decision to keep my Ubi games on PS

[_Feet_]

топ

[Count_Dandyman]

Originally posted by Supafly:

I suspect the performance impact would be the main thing. Once the game has been cracked and a pirated version is available online it kinda makes it some what pointless. I also don't really see the need if it's been released on different platforms that is required to run the game. You essentially have 2 different DRM's which kinda renders the need for 1 of them.

If they allowed, let's say the Steam Version to be ran without Steam being loaded then sure the Denuvo DRM works as a single DRM. But if Steam is required why do you really need 2?

Thing is quite often Denuvo doesn't impact performance at all itself there have been cases where devs botched its implementation and caused an impact that way but most of the time it gets blamed for issues caused by the game itself or other DRMs and encryptions layered on with it as well because it is so openly declared to exist and the idea has been spread so widely that people isntantly accept it without looking any deeper.

[Heretic]

Originally posted by Wendy Lim:

While I already played a lot of PC games since the 90s, forgive me for my lack of insights about certain technical things. I'm not a tech-savvy guy.

I don't get why a lot of people hate Denuvo. We are living in 2022 and most gamer here already have decent (even powerful) PC that can handle a lot of things, so why all the hate?

If not because of performance impact, maybe Denuvo is some kind of spyware that steals personal data? Or something worse?

It may have some uses for the first couple of months after release, which is the best time, but once it's all hacked it becomes somewhat redundant. Those who paid for their game end up treated like a suspect, whilst pirates brag about better framerates. It can also prevent modding and often requires you to be always online, even if it's an SP game.

[Andrei]

Why can u not see the danger denuvo brings to gamers ? If Servers are down for any denuvo game u can not play ur game on a legal way ur license wont work anymore. The best way for everyone is to remove denuvo after the game is cracked.

Ubisoft games for example are still protected by denuvo + VM Protect imagine denuvo is not more present as a company and there are no more servers to activate ur purchased products u are stuck with dead games in ur library.

I can understand to protect the product a publisher is developing but it shouldn’t hurt honest buyers.

[wendy4547]

Originally posted by Andrei:

Why can u not see the danger denuvo brings to gamers ? If Servers are down for any denuvo game u can not play ur game on a legal way ur license wont work anymore. The best way for everyone is to remove denuvo after the game is cracked.

Ubisoft games for example are still protected by denuvo + VM Protect imagine denuvo is not more present as a company and there are no more servers to activate ur purchased products u are stuck with dead games in ur library.

I can understand to protect the product a publisher is developing but it shouldn’t hurt honest buyers.

I never encounter a problem with Denuvo, even after playing a lot of games on Steam that use them. I guess I must be very lucky.

[Count_Dandyman]

Originally posted by Andrei:

Why can u not see the danger denuvo brings to gamers ? If Servers are down for any denuvo game u can not play ur game on a legal way ur license wont work anymore. The best way for everyone is to remove denuvo after the game is cracked.

Ubisoft games for example are still protected by denuvo + VM Protect imagine denuvo is not more present as a company and there are no more servers to activate ur purchased products u are stuck with dead games in ur library.

I can understand to protect the product a publisher is developing but it shouldn’t hurt honest buyers.

That is a blanket issue with server reliant games not a Denuvo specific one plenty of games have had portions or the entire game made unavailable from server shutdowns without Denuvo having any involvement.

You have an absolutely valid point about an issue but are too focused on the easy scapegoat and missing the bigger picture because of it.

[lukaself]

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

That is a blanket issue with server reliant games not a Denuvo specific one plenty of games have had portions or the entire game made unavailable from server shutdowns without Denuvo having any involvement.

Except Denuvo is specifically used to add that online requirement to single player games which otherwise do not need to be online to start. No one is complaining about online multiplayer games requiring the internet to work here. Apples and Oranges.