Why I'm done Steam Suggestions / Ideas forum and why you shouldn't bother either.

[FOXDUDE69]

It's time for me to follow the advice of many users who came and went over the years and completely stop bothering with it.

The Steam hub, but more specifically, the Suggestions / Ideas forum has been poisoned by a cabal of individuals other regulars have recently started referring to as "bad actors" because, frankly that's what they are. Steam does not take action and their behavior has only worsened over the last couple of years. If this is the community they want, I'm out.

These so called "bad actors" (i'd call them something else) act negatively and even hostile towards, what appears, almost every suggestion or idea they participate in. Even ideas for features they could completely ignore and wouldn't impact their experience whatsoever.

They seem to not be very good at debating ideas, which becomes apparent after just a couple of posts, even for newcomers engaging them for the first time. But that is fine, not everyone is good at debating and it can be hard for some to think logically about an issue they are passionate about.

What is not fine, however, is to engage in a desire to "win" at any costs.
The "arguments" they typically post in are largely constituted by made up non-issues, highly-unlikely scenarios that would never take place, illogical drivel, breaking up other users' posts in a way that allows them to leave out and ignore relevant context (they seem to have learned that tactic from a former volunteer mod), blatant attempts to derail the thread so that it eventually gets locked and a numerous other underhanded tactics. All while abusing the report system and trying to get you banned, too.

When a user ignores an argument that's too nonsensical to even warrant a reply, they'll spam the thread with claims the user "conveniently ignored" whatever drivel they wrote and pretend that the other user can't refute their argument.

When confronted about their behavior or the "logic" behind their posts by newcomers and regulars alike they'll resort to spamming "This is a discussion forum, not a affirmation forum." which is a completely non-constructive and dishonest thing to write, as it implies users who disagree with them, who very often are arguing their position clearly and attempting to engage in proper debate, are simply there because they want affirmation from others. Watch them now quote the one time I held a mirror their face and said the same thing and watch them pretend like it's is the same thing as engaging in this behavior naturally and repeatedly.

My favorite argument of theirs is when they tell people that "If Valve wanted to do this, they would have done it by now". Another blatantly non-constructive argument. So... We should only bother suggesting things that have already been done?! What's the logic here? Talk about completely missing the point of a Suggestions / Ideas board!

Recently, I had yet another one of my threads closed because of their behavior, I stopped posting several hours before it got locked, and asked other participants to not reply to these "bad actors" as they were clearly trying to get the thread locked. But other users went for the bait and I could do nothing but to watch another one of my threads that I put a lot of thought into get locked.

The community responded to this, as they are sick of it, and a thread about threads getting locked promptly came up after. The so called "bad actors" didn't like it one bit and pretended my thread locked because of my behavior, since I was banned. What they "forgot" to tell everyone is that they abused to report system and got me banned for saying "this is comedy gold" on another thread.

That's right, that's all it takes! These people just report anything and everything you write until some mod having a bad day screws you over and support doesn't lift a finger to help you because you've been banned several times before (on BS like this), so they'll just assume you are trash and let the thing stand.

So my advice to all newcomers, and a reminder to regulars, is to contest every ban that you get, even if it's just for a day, because when you've had a few, you'll be increasingly easier to ban. So I "thank" the volunteer mods for my first few illegitimate bans, and other BS ones that followed... Even though you've lost your privileges, the consequences of your "moderation" will continue to echo through these forums. And what a wonderful place it is, isn't it?

And what happened to that thread about threads getting locked... Well it got locked, too!
Am I surprised? Disappointed, for sure, but not surprised.

Valve の投稿を引用：

This thread has gone through multiple waves of moderation in hopes of keeping the discussion healthy, but the discussion continues to devolve into fighting and reporting wars. Therefore, this thread has been locked.

As a reminder, please note that abusing the post reporting system can lead to actions against your account.

Thank you for your understanding.

I wonder why these people who've come to be referred to as "bad actors" among other regulars weren't banned after the first wave of moderation but were instead allowed to derail yet another thread they disliked and resume hostilities. One of these users tried to bait me into non-constructive arguments several times by repeatedly quoting a quote of mine from another thread, regardless of relevance or context. No action taken, which promotes this behavior, which he is already famous for.

The Valve quote also confirms my suspicion that these people abuse the report system. I knew volunteer mods used to ban people based on these reports, because some of them were dishonest thugs who should've never held that position, but report abuse somehow continues to work in these people's favor... Occasionally getting a couple of users banned because of posts nobody should ever get banned for while the people abusing the report system go unpunished and behave however they like and ironically acting saintly.

They even take screenshots and share them in their "artwork" sections celebrating when they get one or multiple people banned. I was linked a screenshot with the caption "two birds, one stone" when they got me and another user posting in the same thread banned, clearly showing who is being hostile and spiteful.
I reported that screenshot, and even though it is now gone, the user abusing the report system for the lols didn't suffer any further consequences and continues to act saintly.

To close...

I've met some truly wonderful and insightful people here, and I've learned quite a bit from them. In those people, and their posts, I see what this place could have been and the types of conversations it could have fostered if moderation started... moderating properly.

I was really hoping with volunteer mods going away, this would be a new leaf for the Steam forums, even saw some old faces coming back and becoming more active after that but a couple months later, we are all realizing that it's going to take real hard work to fix the community that the volunteer mods fostered.

For all those reasons. My advice to everyone reading, is to stop bothering with the Suggestions / Ideas forum until Valve makes it a place conducive for honest and constructive dialogue.

Because the way it is now, the Suggestions / Ideas forum can be summed up in one CS:GO line: Terrorists win.

Thank you for reading. Here's a cat.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

So basically, more encouragement for copy/paste meme guides and spam threads to farm community points, so one can make a meme thread with ascii spam in it, then use farmed alts to upvote it so it can't be deleted.

While your attempts at work-arounds might seem logical, it's still a system that can be easily abused.

If Memes didn't make people smile, people wouldn't award them. Memes are a product of community expression and heavily linked to gamer culture.

Perhaps you have noticed that the vibrant community Steam has is one of it's biggest strengths, and that community absolutely adores memes, you can see this on every review section.

If a few more memes is the price we pay for a better community, I call that an absolute "Win-Win"!

:wh::JETE::yellowbeat::ladra::goldenring::praisesun::WordE::yellowbeat::mllrM::JETE::GoldenM::GimmeAnE::winnings::warningyellow:

Until you see your 100th "amogus with a penis" ascii copy/paste.

[FOXDUDE69]

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

Until you see your 100th "amogus with a penis" ascii copy/paste.

Would still be better than the 10,000th time I saw one of the "bad actors" making a bad faith argument, behaving with hostility towards newcomers and regulars alike or blatantly attempting to derail a thread.

You won't be able to convince anyone that unchecked toxicity is preferable to potential a slight increase in memes,

[GunsForBucks]

I think of it like this.

If I am out on my deck drinking a beer and a friend walks down the street and I walk out to say hi.

Am I "drinking in public" and breaking the law? Well yes I am.

Would you call the cops on your neighbor if you saw him do that?

This is kind of the level we have sunk to. ha ha ha

I mean the cops would "have to" respond... and stop by and tell me my neighbor is a douche and I should avoid doing what I did. I'd go "fine, thanks!"

It wastes everyone's time for a nothing thing.... it's just so petty and anal sometimes you have to wonder if we are being trained to report on our neighbors for social score rewards. Something youth is calling... ha ha ha

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

Until you see your 100th "amogus with a penis" ascii copy/paste.

Would still be better than the 10,000th time I saw one of the "bad actors" making a bad faith argument, behaving with hostility towards newcomers and regulars alike or blatantly attempting to derail a thread.

You won't be able to convince anyone that unchecked toxicity is preferable to potential a slight increase in memes,

I assure you, not a slight increase. Or...were you not there when awards originally dropped? The forums were a mess from the spam alone.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Then there's the fact the "bad actors" could use that exact same system, to make threads that can't be deleted, to harass people like OP. But hey, what do I know?

[FOXDUDE69]

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

I assure you, not a slight increase. Or...were you not there when awards originally dropped? The forums were a mess from the spam alone.

The awards already dropped, and all that mess wasn't that big of a deal and it also eventually died down and even if it didn't it would still preferable to the unchecked toxicity we see today here, which btw, is not dying down.

[white but not quite]

I'm just waiting for someone to define toxicity to make sure we're all on the same page

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

I assure you, not a slight increase. Or...were you not there when awards originally dropped? The forums were a mess from the spam alone.

The awards already dropped, and all that mess wasn't that big of a deal and it also eventually died down and even if it didn't it would still preferable to the unchecked toxicity we see today here, which btw, is not dying down.

And you somehow think making threads unable to be deleted, would reduced unchecked toxicity?

It'd add to it, buddy.

[FOXDUDE69]

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

The awards already dropped, and all that mess wasn't that big of a deal and it also eventually died down and even if it didn't it would still preferable to the unchecked toxicity we see today here, which btw, is not dying down.

And you somehow think making threads unable to be deleted, would reduced unchecked toxicity?

It'd add to it, buddy.

I suggest you read the actual suggestion if you wish to debate it, and I also suggest you debate that suggestion there so we don't derail this thread. Thank you.

[The Commendatore]

I remember you from the ME:LE hub.

Oh, how he's now trying to act all helpful and positive.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

<Insert Kazoo Circus Music Here> の投稿を引用：

And you somehow think making threads unable to be deleted, would reduced unchecked toxicity?

It'd add to it, buddy.

I suggest you read the actual suggestion if you wish to debate it, and I also suggest you debate that suggestion there so we don't derail this thread. Thank you.

All I'm saying is the "bad actors" could abuse the hell out of it, seeing as you're claiming they're apparently a big group working together.

[Supafly]

ree - may or may not be a clone の投稿を引用：

I'm just waiting for someone to define toxicity to make sure we're all on the same page

Been thinking the same for god knows how long........didn't want to say it incase I'm in the Bad actor category

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

I'll give an example of how I personally, could abuse not having a thread locked.

Post tongue in cheek bait thread, JUST obscure enough that staff don't catch on, however users like OP react to it. Repeatedly bait them into breaking the post rules. Report.

Now, how could I make that bait thread immune to deletion/locking? Simple, run a botnet of cheap accounts spamming the forums with memes/ascii art enough to get points for upvotes. Then? Simply upvote the thread on said accounts.


Or, simply get friends to upvote it, regardless of context.

[Tito Shivan]

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

People can earn points by participating in the community with thoughtful posts, artwork that speaks to gamers, insightful or funny reviews and helpful threads! Like this one! Look at the awards I got for it!

Farming jester awards seems to be the most cost effective way to earn points so far though.

Beware on which shoulders your resting your idea upon.

[Leonardo Da Pinchi]

Tito Shivan の投稿を引用：

FOXDUDE69 の投稿を引用：

People can earn points by participating in the community with thoughtful posts, artwork that speaks to gamers, insightful or funny reviews and helpful threads! Like this one! Look at the awards I got for it!

Farming jester awards seems to be the most cost effective way to earn points so far though.

Beware on which shoulders your resting your idea upon.

I'm sitting on like 60k points, half of them likely from Jesters, simply from people who don't like what I have to say. Now imagine if I were to farm it.