So is having sex with college girls considered more offensive than♥♥♥♥♥♥

[WanderingHero]

So I heard "My Girlfriend", a college dating game has recenetly been banned because uhhh... I guess College is too much like High school or something https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2_6tIbuENCoJ:https://store.steampowered.com/app/467690/My_Girlfriend/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d

Even though either these girls are clearly and unmistakably adults or their putting some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stuff in children's food. Like holy♥♥♥♥♥♥if a teenage girl looks like that I'd suggest they stop drinking so much milk or they'll end up with back pain problems down the line.

but Lady Killer in a Bind has♥♥♥♥♥♥scenes {LINK REMOVED}https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiPgtivrIrhAhVsVBUIHYBSB5MQFjABegQIERAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fstore.steampowered.com%2Fapp%2F560000%2FLadykiller_in_a_Bind%2F&usg=AOvVaw11jOfST5sf1Jim2wuK3d0l but thats not as offensive as conseual sex with college girls.


Yay? I don't care about either game I just want to understand whatever moon logic is going on

[WanderingHero]

If a school setting is an issue then why is this game ok? https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wNNeyKeYzV8J:https://store.steampowered.com/app/1018040/Dirty_Education/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d

Is fapping to animals less deviant than college girls?

Only reason I can think of is games being targeted at hetrosexual males are being held to different standards

[The nameless Gamer]

Originally posted by Matt:

There's always the human decision element. What you're wanting is black and white rules, but no such thing can realistically exist.

It would be nice to at least have people who posses a degree of knowledge and understanding about a game genre make that judgement and not let someone who never read a visual novel in his life decide whether some of them are appropriate and others not. I see the ban-hammer being swung around wildly again. Sometimes it hits what it should, sometimes collateral damage is done, but who cares?

[8ullfrog]

Plus actual guidelines kick the everloving crap of "This violates community standards" without any definition.

But I'm starting to think people are talking about more than this game, or Valve even. I felt like things oddly shifted when we... crap I was about to say something political.

Hmm, how to rephrase?

I feel like things shifted around 2000, more things became "unacceptable". Crap, Mr. Friendly was deemed not OK, and the Assassins from Half-Life would probably never fly now.

Mr. Saxaphone to Elmer Fudd administration.

Actually, I was never comfortable with female enemies letting out orgasmic moans when they got shot, that was GROSS. I'm not saying the female assassins did that, but other games did. And some of the designs in Raising the bar, like, there were CIA Juggies.


I also don't like shooting dogs in games, damn if that doesn't mess with me every time.

I think doing things in a see-saw method of "I'm okay with this." vs "Well I'm not!" just ends up in a mire.


SO, is there a hard line against Sailor Fuku? What does that even mean?

[ReBoot]

One aspect of the whole discussion that strikes me as rather odd is that the games surrounded by all that controversy are pretty much universally visual novels instead of games with actually interactive gameplay. I get the idea that there's hard to tell edgelording apart from genuine art trying to engage with a rather controversal topic, but it would be just so much easier if this was actually interactive as the way players are encouraged to behave in an interactive game helps a lot to make a point.

[8ullfrog]

Maybe steam is hostile to VN?

[The nameless Gamer]

Originally posted by 8ullfrog:

Maybe steam is hostile to VN?

In all honesty, I no longer know what to believe. On one hand, they have a pretty decent selection of them and it's growing, but on the other hand, some titles just get axed for one reason or another. It's almost as if they just can't make up their mind about them.

[Cathulhu]

The main reason for that is mainly some developers think they can get away with manipulating reviews. Something not only VNs suffer from.
On the other hand, some VNs are rejected due to alleged child exploitation where characters appear to be too young to be 18+ years old.

Problem is, Japan has rather different laws considering age of consent regarding sex than other countries. While those games are perfectly legal in Japan, they are rather iffy outside of Japan.

[J4MESOX4D]

Originally posted by Kartoffelsuppe:

It's the setting that's problematic, at least that's what Valve told the devs and what the devs wrote in their forum to users.

from the kickstarter:

The game follows a male protagonist after he asks out one of the most popular girls in class, who also happens to be a model and an actress. By some crazy twist of fate, the unbelievable happens and she says yes, catapulting you into a strange new world of jealously, limelight, lust and some crazy shenanigans.

dev quote:

It is a lesson learned and I will probably not make any school/college games any more just to make sure that this does not happen again, at least not for steam.

Developers should not be alienated or fear treading on eggshells because of some grey area standards. With the logic that's banded round these days; a game like Life Is Strange should theoretically be on the chopping block.

Some VN's don't help themselves and flirt with the line but other games seem to be culled without any real substance.

[The nameless Gamer]

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

The main reason for that is mainly some developers think they can get away with manipulating reviews. Something not only VNs suffer from.
On the other hand, some VNs are rejected due to alleged child exploitation where characters appear to be too young to be 18+ years old.

Problem is, Japan has rather different laws considering age of consent regarding sex than other countries. While those games are perfectly legal in Japan, they are rather iffy outside of Japan.

Well, a number of European countries has an age of consent lower than 18 years. But since Valve's base of operations is in the US, the law at home has to be prioritized. The problem being that judging by appearance alone is subjective and often misleading. It is not uncommon that actual humans don't look their age. Yet people are subjectively judging drawn characters by appearance.
As for the review manipulation, they should crack down on anyone who does that.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Matt:

There's always the human decision element. What you're wanting is black and white rules, but no such thing can realistically exist.

There is no room for "2" in the world of 1's and 0's, no place for "mayhap" in a house of trues and falses, and no "green with envy" in a black-and-white world

OT.

There is a battle going on atm.. abit of a stupid battle, since we don't have clear rules, not even logical ones that could be "gray" to some extend.

Personally wish we would ban all those Anime games portraying very young girls getting into weird situations, but then again I love bashing the head of a teen in my Expedition: Vikings game, so what is right and what is wrong?

In my eyes the context is important.. Is the goal of the said OP game to "score" date underage girls and have "fun" with them? In a modern world? with either an older or younger self? That might be more problematic than a game showcasing the killing of a 12 year old (with limbs turn apart) in a Viking game.. Why? Well in the specific game the context is - No such thing as kids in that age - The kids killed and stole from others - The context is different than if it was a game based around lets say.. bashing kids head with a hammer in a whack a mole game..

Context is everything, that and the silly trends/opinions of the masses. If the masses suddenly go all in on violence in games, then we might see Australian views being dominate.

Originally posted by The nameless Commander:

Originally posted by Cathulhu:

The main reason for that is mainly some developers think they can get away with manipulating reviews. Something not only VNs suffer from.
On the other hand, some VNs are rejected due to alleged child exploitation where characters appear to be too young to be 18+ years old.

Problem is, Japan has rather different laws considering age of consent regarding sex than other countries. While those games are perfectly legal in Japan, they are rather iffy outside of Japan.

Well, a number of European countries has an age of consent lower than 18 years. But since Valve's base of operations is in the US, the law at home has to be prioritized. The problem being that judging by appearance alone is subjective and often misleading. It is not uncommon that actual humans don't look their age. Yet people are subjectively judging drawn characters by appearance.
As for the review manipulation, they should crack down on anyone who does that.

The problem is the context. I also bet there are alot of other reasons why the game is banned, because as many have pointed out, many other games exist with similar context or more debateable content even.

If the above game showcased a story with normal dating and even sexual scenes (without graphically showcasing the act in to much detail) then we would most likely not have this debate, without having seen the above game, but judging from the fact it might be Anime, chances are the the girls/boys portrayed might look like 8-12 years olds with disporportioned attributes.. This is pretty common sadly and in my opinion problematic also even if that is how that genre is drawn.

If we talked about genuine 14-17 year old in dating envoriments and even simple graphically showcasing of various situations, then I almost bet we would have no problem, the thing is.. in that genre even most of the "older" people are showcased with young features.


Again. I am no judge, I will leave theat to showone else, personally I think people should just accept that gaming allows fantasy to come out. But.. yes but.. in some cases the context might be so problematic that Valve and others have to take action. Albeit I rather we had a total free market, but then the world would be much much different.



"Video to the game I named"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcitkhG8g_Y

[マスキュリン]

Originally posted by Darkie:

[...] in that genre even most of the "older" people are showcased with young features.

Anime drawing in itself have the tendency to have younger looking people simply because features of older people is extra work to draw. To compare: Think how people will look if you take an image and use photoshop, removing all the wrinkles. Suddenly every person will look younger. So the most prominent feature to go with is boob size, which in turn makes every anime girl with less than C size a child (and even then, some people claim even E size is still a child because reason ).

Also, Valve never had a problem with games abusing children.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/70400/Recettear_An_Item_Shops_Tale/
This game promotes child labor and technically even child slavery. If you don't work, make money and pay up your debt to the loanshark you gonna lose your house and have to live in a cartbox. And steam sold the game before Steam Direct, even before Steam Greenlight. It's sold since the days then it was really hard to get on steam.

But we live now in 2019. The outrage culture is taking over, SJW influence everywhere. It's more important for these people what you can't play.

[The nameless Gamer]

It's almost as if there is a growing number of people who are actively trying to be offended or outraged by something.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Masqurin:

Originally posted by Darkie:

[...] in that genre even most of the "older" people are showcased with young features.

Anime drawing in itself have the tendency to have younger looking people simply because features of older people is extra work to draw. To compare: Think how people will look if you take an image and use photoshop, removing all the wrinkles. Suddenly every person will look younger. So the most prominent feature to go with is boob size, which in turn makes every anime girl with less than C size a child (and even then, some people claim even E size is still a child because reason ).

Also, Valve never had a problem with games abusing children.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/70400/Recettear_An_Item_Shops_Tale/
This game promotes child labor and technically even child slavery. If you don't work, make money and pay up your debt to the loanshark you gonna lose your house and have to live in a cartbox. And steam sold the game before Steam Direct, even before Steam Greenlight. It's sold since the days then it was really hard to get on steam.

But we live now in 2019. The outrage culture is taking over, SJW influence everywhere. It's more important for these people what you can't play.

Valve don't have a problem with any game.. the problem is when groups or media gets invested. If we all went on a crusade to ban GTAV for mindless violence, like not just a few groups or goverments, but like if 80% of Valve's customers + media + influencial NGO's etc went for a ban, they would most likely pull the game.

Its all about their interest, but with freedom for the developer in mind.
I personally filtered out Anime in my filter (as the only genre/theme) Albeit I have seen Anime like games that showcase proper porportions of age, features, etc. But they have become a minority, also some games are perfectly fine, but with the influx of so many indie dev's etc we see alot of Anime "and other games" that either lack quality or focus on offending or sexual content, since that often sells.

There is no such thing as SJW. Its just two divided groups in America that can't understand what Gray is. They went to offend eachother and find problems with anything.. (something most Europeans can't see or care about)

Personally I don't care if the OP wants to play an Anime game where he dates 14 year olds. If that is his thing and its only a game, then I could care less, as long.. yes as long as I can filter it away and it being off by default (like gore, etc) We the users should have the choice to what we want.


But.. if we really want to censor stuff like that or other games that have been removed lately, then we either need.

Clear rules
or
Ban everything that is against the law (this includes murder, terrorism, stealing, etc etc etc) Then its also good bye most of Valve's own games.

I don't like the clear rules, since I rather have a gray area where weird fantasies can live their life, to a certain degree ofc. Ie. I love playing a stark raving mad chaotic neutral character in many of my cRPG's.... I love killing people without any reason, just because it suited my need.. But I am nothing like that in real life and would never agree to such behaviour.. But the fantasy (something all humans have) can be lived out in the game in a peaceful manner.. just as when I am angry about my studens not reading up before a lecture... I go home, play some FPS and shoot stuff in the head.. (I wish there was a game where you could shoot studens that did not read up)

Because that would blow off steam "pun intended" and make my anger go away, peacefully.... in a game. If I did not have this option, most likely I would not be so friendly and positive during lectures.. I might be more of a grumpy evil and very agressive person (maybe).

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by The nameless Commander:

It's almost as if there is a growing number of people who are actively trying to be offended or outraged by something.

They have always existed. It is no different from the 80's ie. Well other than the fact we are all much more connected and that people need to showcase their every emotion every secound on social media etc (look at me.. even a old person like me need to showcase my opinion the on steam forums)

I guess that is the difference, its more visible now and its easier to group up.
Like if most of the little town I was born in liked x thing, then most likely those who liked y would not stir anything up.. but today.. they could just find a minority in some group online that like y and crusade.


Welcome to the age of connectivity

[Cathulhu]

Recettear is in a fantasy setting and not like many visual novels in a realistic setting. Quite often a school setting, making that even more problematic. And that difference is very important.