Valve must allow ChäoS;HEAd Noah

[ValentB]

Valve allows lots of trash, russian bear vodka s**t, furry degenerate s**t, sex with hitler, acquitted, lock her up alt-right junk but not the classic cult game from a trusted known publisher?
https://www.spike-chunsoft.com/news/regarding-the-steam-version-of-chaoshead-noah/

Release Chaos;HeaD Noah here.

Update from 7 October:
We have won!!!
https://www.spike-chunsoft.com/news/update-steam-version-of-chaoshead-noah/

[Boblin the Goblin]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por KittenGrindr:

No applicable.

Both characters in Life is Strange 2 are perfectly aware of the age. It also is not set as something wrong. It is quite literally glorifying sex with a minor.

Even the game in question puts the context of the person thinking about the scenario is a scumbag. It isn't glorified in the slightest.

My point wasn Life is Strange 2. and LIfe is Strange 2, and others kinda call into question the sexual situations and minors thing. ANd even if that was the thing that triggered Valve, the dev could have easily fixed it with +/- 5 that is commmonly used. The plot doesn't and shouldn't break.

TThough i do believe the children in sexual situations is likely more nuanced. I mean if it were a hard and fast rule, there's at least two of Stephen King's stories that wouldn't have ever been publisher in the US.

It isn't a law for forms of art unless it involves real minors. This include literature, videos games, painted/drawn/created media. It's a big grey area because it literally depends on the judge at the hearing if charges are brought.

This is Steam's rule, and they have not applied it fairly. That's the issue.

[Furry Slurry]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por KittenGrindr:

No applicable.

Both characters in Life is Strange 2 are perfectly aware of the age. It also is not set as something wrong. It is quite literally glorifying sex with a minor.

Even the game in question puts the context of the person thinking about the scenario is a scumbag. It isn't glorified in the slightest.

My point wasn Life is Strange 2. and LIfe is Strange 2, and others kinda call into question the sexual situations and minors thing. ANd even if that was the thing that triggered Valve, the dev could have easily fixed it with +/- 5 that is commmonly used. The plot doesn't and shouldn't break.

TThough i do believe the children in sexual situations is likely more nuanced. I mean if it were a hard and fast rule, there's at least two of Stephen King's stories that wouldn't have ever been publisher in the US.

Im sorry, im just getting annoyed everyday by this converseversy

[Ryulightorb]

Escrito originalmente por KittenGrindr:

Escrito originalmente por Ryulightorb:

it literally contains no sexual content at ALL

Even just text is considered sexual content.

ok no visual sexual content very minor text content.

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por KittenGrindr:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

My point wasn Life is Strange 2. and LIfe is Strange 2, and others kinda call into question the sexual situations and minors thing. ANd even if that was the thing that triggered Valve, the dev could have easily fixed it with +/- 5 that is commmonly used. The plot doesn't and shouldn't break.

TThough i do believe the children in sexual situations is likely more nuanced. I mean if it were a hard and fast rule, there's at least two of Stephen King's stories that wouldn't have ever been publisher in the US.

It isn't a law for forms of art unless it involves real minors. This include literature, videos games, painted/drawn/created media. It's a big grey area because it literally depends on the judge at the hearing if charges are brought.

This is Steam's rule, and they have not applied it fairly. That's the issue.

Well just as such things happen to depend on the judge and rthe fine details surrounding it, so too might STeam.s there may be finer contextual details that will make the difference. As a judge once said, "I can't define pornography, but I know it when i see it."

I'm more partial to the idea that the apparent inconsistency may have more to do with unreliable narrators/sources. I.e sources that couch the information in vagueries or sensationalism to achieve a certain effect.

Like what the devs have done here.
They have ben particularly vague about the matter abnd the details thereof and the timing rather sus in my opinion. Hence why I will consider the devs suspsect until they provide more details in specifics.

[♥]

Escrito originalmente por KittenGrindr:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

But one causes traumatic harm to another.
STatutory is one of those surprisingly grey areas. It can be dependent on the age of those involved. I.e two 15 year olds, or if there's an age difference of 1 year or less. There's also the avenue that the older party may genuinely be unaware of the other's age either by misrepresentation, or reasonable assumption.

If you take someone that you met at an adults only bar, you'd reasonably assume that they were an adult and niot that they snuck in with a false ID.

WHat I'm getting at is that there are mitigating factors with SR...with Forcible/Violent however yeah there aren't any mitigating factors there.

Statutory rape also causes trauma. Just in a different way.

Again, the rule is about sexual situations with minors. 16 is considered a minor in the US, where Valve is based.

If that is the rule that cause issues with this game, Life is Strange 2 is also breaking that rule.

There is no "mitigating factors" when a 21 year old has sex with a 16 year old. That is the same as a college Jr. having sex with a high school sophomore.

i have no idea of the main character in the game but i recall the age of consent in japan is 13, assuming there is no massive diffrance in age, and some states in america age of consent is 16, as well as several countries around the world.

but ignoring all of this.
art and games are not living human beings and they should not be held accountable to things like age of consent, i am not in the us so i do not know the rule book but i recall there was a mention art depicting minors is not banned so long its not realistic to the point you cannot tell if its a real person or drawn character.

[RiO]

Escrito originalmente por Ogami:

Chaos Head Noah was also rated "USK 16" here in Germany, so suitable for anyone 16 or older.
And the German USK is one of the strictest rating boards for games in the world.

Its original domestic version for X360 and PSVita was rated Z (18+) by CERO.
The PS3, PSP, Android, iOS, and - apparently - Switch domestic versions were rated D (17+) by CERO.

Your USK 16 rating is probably for the censored version.

[T]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por KittenGrindr:

It isn't a law for forms of art unless it involves real minors. This include literature, videos games, painted/drawn/created media. It's a big grey area because it literally depends on the judge at the hearing if charges are brought.

This is Steam's rule, and they have not applied it fairly. That's the issue.

Well just as such things happen to depend on the judge and rthe fine details surrounding it, so too might STeam.s there may be finer contextual details that will make the difference. As a judge once said, "I can't define pornography, but I know it when i see it."

I'm more partial to the idea that the apparent inconsistency may have more to do with unreliable narrators/sources. I.e sources that couch the information in vagueries or sensationalism to achieve a certain effect.

Like what the devs have done here.
They have ben particularly vague about the matter abnd the details thereof and the timing rather sus in my opinion. Hence why I will consider the devs suspsect until they provide more details in specifics.

There are multiple supreme court cases protecting this kind of media.

Obscenity law only applies to hardcore pornography, not nudity or sexual situations.

There are multiple SCOTUS cases dealing with this.

Nudity is protected speech, even a drawing of a fictitious underage nude character is protected speech. Literature which describes sexual relationships is protected speech no matter the age, unless it's clearly and entirely pornographic.

ROMEO AND JULIET PEOPLE.

God.... Romeo was three years older and Juliet was only 13. This is exactly the kind of speech the court was protecting.

You guys are so misinformed it blows my mind.

Now if they were focusing exclusively on genitals or something that might run afoul of obscenity laws.

However, you people defending Valve for this based on US law are completely and totally ignorant. It makes total sense to not want to host any hardcore pornography because it is a legal can of worms. However, the kind of stuff they've been banning would *never* run afoul of US law.

Edit: Here is a long list of court cases protecting this kind of speech.

https://medium.com/@ashu030295/nudity-is-not-obscenity-b3c792ec8f51

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por damag0r:

There are multiple supreme court cases protecting this kind of media.

Obscenity law only applies to hardcore pornography, not nudity or sexual situations.

There are are multiple SCOTUS cases dealing with this.

Nudity is protected speech, even a drawing of a fictitious underage nude character is protected speech. Literature which describes sexual relationships is protected speech no matter the age, unless it's clearly and entirely pornographic.

ROMEO AND JULIET PEOPLE.

God.... Romeo was three years older and Juliet was only 13. This is exactly the kind of speech the court was protecting.

And that's actually a perfect example of how those things change over time. Back when it was originally penned, that wasn't exactly considered odd, or shocking.


Plus technically they're both minors.
But did you actually read my post m8.

Let me remind you

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

I'm more partial to the idea that the apparent inconsistency may have more to do with unreliable narrators/sources. I.e sources that couch the information in vagueries or sensationalism to achieve a certain effect.

Like what the devs have done here.
They have ben particularly vague about the matter abnd the details thereof and the timing rather sus in my opinion. Hence why I will consider the devs suspsect until they provide more details in specifics.

We don't know that what awas asked to be changed had anything to do with sex, nudity, etc. And clearly Valve has no problem with either if you look through the store pages. But there is degrees in play here people. There's Anatomical nuditic, artistic nudit, and then there's Goatse.

There's a fine line where certain things become unacceptable.
I mean ROmeo and Juliet, Fine. But when you talk about 'Lolita' then things get complicated.

MY point was. We don't know which of the 13 guidelines they tripped over. But people are assuming all sorrts of things, which seem to always paint the devs in a positive light, which is likely exactly why they were so deliberately vague and they almost always are.

[T]

There is some moron employed at Valve that either needs to be laid off or have their power removed to affect such decisions.

Their current rules aren't followed clearly, and should be abolished anyway.

The rules should be replaced with something simple like, nothing that could be considered obscene under US law. As for other countries, simply restrict access in those countries if need be.

[Furry Slurry]

Escrito originalmente por damag0r:

There is some moron employed at Valve that either needs to be laid off or have their power removed to affect such decisions.

Their current rules aren't followed clearly, and should be abolished anyway.

The rules should be replaced with something simple like, nothing that could be considered obscene under US law. As for other countries, simply restrict access in those countries if need be.

You mean blacklisted for his xenophobic actions?

[Cobalt Squire]

Valve needs to update their guidelines to be clearer and provide fair treatment to every publisher and game. With their goal of expanding their presence in Japan through the Steam Deck, more Japanese developers will try to get into Steam, and many of those games will probably get the same treatment of Chaos;Head. You can't strive to be popular in Japan while banning large amounts of Japanese games, a lesson Valve will have to learn one way or another.

This is not a good look for the platform:
https://twitter.com/AUTOMATONJapan/status/1576075321673388032

[Reticent Voice]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por {PAF}Retro:

Honestly I wouldn't buy this game but if Steam decides that censorship is their goal I WON'T BUY ANYTHING ELSE HERE! I just got my 19 year badge last month but I am sick and tired of this woke mindvirus censorship bullsh|t that is ruining every form of entertainment I enjoy!

The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
– Capt. Jean-Luc Picard

Except there's always censorship. It's just different what gets censored in each country.

"The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
– Capt. Jean-Luc Picard"

[Bee🐝]

So, a few more hours have passed.

Does anyone actually know which changes the developers refused to make or are we still guessing and just randomly blaming different parties with little to no information?

[Domainus]

No. My guess is SC is doing as they said and looking for alternative storefronts while also bidding time to see how this movement turns out. It does seem quite poor of Valve for them to ban a beloved visual novel when recently they were showcasing the steam deck at TGS trying to expand their influence in the east.

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por {PAF}Retro:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Except there's always censorship. It's just different what gets censored in each country.

"The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
– Capt. Jean-Luc Picard"

As said. Far to late to draw the line. The enemy has passed you, seized the capital instally a puppet king that founded a dynasty that is now on it's 7th generation.
Censorship happ3ns all the time, everywhere and has since before you were born. and let me tell you, what gets censored in various countries is really weird. I mean Japan really doesn't like armpit hair for some reason. CHina has a thing against gore and death. India...well India is it's own story there.

Escrito originalmente por Domainus:

No. My guess is SC is doing as they said and looking for alternative storefronts while also bidding time to see how this movement turns out. It does seem quite poor of Valve for them to ban a beloved visual novel when recently they were showcasing the steam deck at TGS trying to expand their influence in the east.

Valve banned nothing.
Please at the very least do not keep repeating the clickbait headlines. ZThe devs voluntarily chose to not publish on STeam...fior now.. and I strongly suspect we'll see it miraculously appear on steam in time for the winter, or new years sale.