Steam return policy: 2-hours ingame requirement - Get rid of it.

[DooM]

I think it is not obvious that there is a 2 hour limit to the maximum play-time - this is not common practice. If I think of how long people usually spend on playing a demo (or used to do so when it was more common), then this typically exeeded 2 hours by far. In order to judge if a game really brings you enjoyment or frustrates you, you probably simply need a bit more time!

I would suggest - if you at Steam want to keep your 2 hour deadline policy, to introduce a pop-up after 1:50 hours of playtime, that the return deadline timer is about to expire. I mean... at least be fully transparent about it. If you want to, you can add the option to disable this feature.

I think in general, as this is in my view a essential part of good service, you should throw this requirement over board completely. Look at Amazon or any other company that excels in the service department. They even accept all the storage-, shipment-, and supportrelated costs that come with it. On the other hand, you just have to click an accept button and thats it!

Think about it.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Tito Shivan]

Publicado originalmente por Lithurge:

Finding something too hard is going to make it fall into the 'just don't like it' category.

In reality the stated refund policy does encourage people to try games they might be unsure about e.g. treat it as a demo, but Steam do also make it clear they don't expect you to over use this flexibility.

Note that being able to refund a game because you didn't like it doesn't equate to refunds being a way to test out games.

I can call in sick at work, but that doesn't mean they'll get on my toes if I call in sick too frequently.

[Lithurge]

Publicado originalmente por Tito Shivan:

Publicado originalmente por Lithurge:

Finding something too hard is going to make it fall into the 'just don't like it' category.

In reality the stated refund policy does encourage people to try games they might be unsure about e.g. treat it as a demo, but Steam do also make it clear they don't expect you to over use this flexibility.

Note that being able to refund a game because you didn't like it doesn't equate to refunds being a way to test out games.

I can call in sick at work, but that doesn't mean they'll get on my toes if I call in sick too frequently.

Which I made clear in the second half of that sentence.

However a company has to understand what people's understanding of terms might be and ensure that the text they present to the customer make it clear what they intend. The separation between the reasons why in the first paragraph and the abuse caveat in the final one is not helpful for that understanding and is something that could be easily fixed.

And yes, as somebody who worked with contracts and terms and conditions for many years, I do understand the customer has a duty to read all of them, but equally know that it's never quite as straightforward as that.

[DooM]

I guess a couple of points can be summarized:

1) There are more strict and more liberal refund policies at other vending platforms, so Steam does not have to be pointed out as having somehow exceptional refund policies

2) It seems like Steam indeed allows to use the given 2 hour as the time interval to test/try out the software. That being said, it is expected from the customer to do your fair share of research before purchase, so you do not require refunds too often.

In general, as this is a forum of the Steam community, I can understand that you tend to defend Steam. However, I think that in general, if you try to see the world through the lense of someone who is outside of your current bubble, you might find a little truth^^ (Or well, sometimes it is only biased, superficial spamming lol).

Because when you go down the path of "the customer has to find this and that information beforehand in order to be eligible for refund", you rather treat the customer like a child that has to do its homework than a king. And in the end, Steam cant live without customers, but customers could live without Steam.

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por DooM:

Because when you go down the path of "the customer has to find this and that information beforehand in order to be eligible for refund", you rather treat the customer like a child that has to do its homework than a king. And in the end, Steam cant live without customers, but customers could live without Steam.

Except that it's the customers responsibility to inform themselves of return policies. Plus customers aren't king and certainly not all customers are worth keeping.

And while Steam indeed can't live without customers, the amount of customers that run into issues like yours are negligible at best.

Refunds have purposes, they are there as a safety in case somwthing doesn't work. They're not a satisfaction guarantee (which is how one would classify your refund request). And while one can occassionally refund a game for not liking it, doing it too often simply means getting restrictions on it.

[Thermal Lance]

The refund policy is not there to demo games.

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

Publicado originalmente por DooM:

I guess a couple of points can be summarized:

1) There are more strict and more liberal refund policies at other vending platforms, so Steam does not have to be pointed out as having somehow exceptional refund policies

2) It seems like Steam indeed allows to use the given 2 hour as the time interval to test/try out the software. That being said, it is expected from the customer to do your fair share of research before purchase, so you do not require refunds too often.

In general, as this is a forum of the Steam community, I can understand that you tend to defend Steam. However, I think that in general, if you try to see the world through the lense of someone who is outside of your current bubble, you might find a little truth^^ (Or well, sometimes it is only biased, superficial spamming lol).

Because when you go down the path of "the customer has to find this and that information beforehand in order to be eligible for refund", you rather treat the customer like a child that has to do its homework than a king. And in the end, Steam cant live without customers, but customers could live without Steam.

No. It is ON YOU to do your due diligence. That's like going out and paying for a used car AND THEN complaining it has no engine because you didn't check it out first.

[Thermal Lance]

I mean, there is an option for "not liking" the game when refunding. But it is there for when you really do a bad purchase. Steam will refund usually if you don't abuse it.

A few years ago I bought an FPS I was sure I would dig but it ended up being extremely dull. Those things happens and Steam really is nice for giving us that opportunity.

But that option isn't meant to be used to try games left and right...

[T9]

What's in for Valve?
Nothing. So .. no

They already tried to go against refunds and lost. A reminder would possibly mean even less money for Valve. So double-no

[Tolkien Book Fan]

Publicado originalmente por DooM:

Because when you go down the path of "the customer has to find this and that information beforehand in order to be eligible for refund", you rather treat the customer like a child that has to do its homework than a king. And in the end, Steam cant live without customers, but customers could live without Steam.

I've read that in (I think it was) the Netherlands, the equivalent of the slogan "the customer is always right" is "the customer is king". To quote the Dutch cashiers: "Welcome to democracy Your Majesty."

[JVC]

Publicado originalmente por ElfSeeker:

Publicado originalmente por DooM:

Because when you go down the path of "the customer has to find this and that information beforehand in order to be eligible for refund", you rather treat the customer like a child that has to do its homework than a king. And in the end, Steam cant live without customers, but customers could live without Steam.

I've read that in (I think it was) the Netherlands, the equivalent of the slogan "the customer is always right" is "the customer is king". To quote the Dutch cashiers: "Welcome to democracy Your Majesty."

That's not how reality works. In real life, the customer is often a whining crybaby that doesn't give a hoot about neither rules nor the store's staff but feel a great deal of entitlement. The customer is often wrong.

If people don't like the current return system, go back to how it was when I began buying physical video games in a store. If the box had not been sealed prior to the purchase by store staff and/or if the box had been opened in any way at all the purchase was final. No refunds.

If I could prove that the actual cd-rom was physically damaged and that it was a very recent purchase, the store would swap the broken disc for a new one of exactly the same game. That's it. Those were the rules.

People that don't like the current rules are free to go back to how stuff used to be.

[Kryzz]

refund policy is for games that don't work or are missold, not to trial. that's what demos are for. people already abuse the refund system enough as is, especially streamers that want to stream the 'funny bad games' but don't want to pay for them. quit bein' a cheapskate

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por t9:

What's in for Valve?
Nothing. So .. no

They already tried to go against refunds and lost. A reminder would possibly mean even less money for Valve. So double-no

Sigh, really wish people would actually look at the cases before they wrongly quote them.

Valve never went against refunds, nor did they lose because of it. They lost a court ruling because their support staff was failing to adequately explain to customers their refund rights.

They ALREADY had the refund, the support staff just wasn't properly trained on the policy and was telling people incorrect information which led to the fine.

[isomorphic_projection]

Publicado originalmente por Nx Machina:

Refund policies - Take your pick.

1) Steam - The Steam refund offer, within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

I believe you could also get a refund, if the game is sold cheaper within 2 weeks. If it did not had a discount the first time you bought it. I got a game refunded after 3 or so hours of play. But i'm not sure about the 2 weeks, could be 1.

[Brian9824]

Publicado originalmente por isomorphic_projection:

Publicado originalmente por Nx Machina:

Refund policies - Take your pick.

1) Steam - The Steam refund offer, within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime.

I believe you could also get a refund, if the game is sold cheaper within 2 weeks. If it did not had a discount the first time you bought it. I got a game refunded after 3 or so hours of play. But i'm not sure about the 2 weeks, could be 1.

Not for that reason. If a game is cheaper within 2 weeks you can refund it if you meet the criteria of under 2 weeks and less then 2 hours.

It being cheaper isn't a valid criteria, but like all refunds you can ask and possibly get an exception, even if its over the 2 weeks/2 hour threshold.

[Mad Scientist]

Publicado originalmente por DooM:

In general, as this is a forum of the Steam community, I can understand that you tend to defend Steam. However, I think that in general, if you try to see the world through the lense of someone who is outside of your current bubble, you might find a little truth^^ (Or well, sometimes it is only biased, superficial spamming lol).

It's only defended when the customer is completely wrong, doesn't understand/comprehend the matter, is extremely out of touch or otherwise. Various people pointing out things to you, does not mean a global defense of Steam itself in all aspects. Many of us will often have a criticism here/there, but those that understand how the platform works, how stores typically work etc; will point out things people should by default be intelligent enough to understand or figure out themselves. Businesses afterall, are about making profit & success.

We also are well more than capable of understanding outside of "our current bubble" due to experience, meaning that those responding have been in diverse situations, have their own experiences etc. Being against one of your wants, does not put them all in an inexperienced category or not having been through anything you might have, which is an attempt to dismiss their input & experiences.

Publicado originalmente por DooM:

Because when you go down the path of "the customer has to find this and that information beforehand in order to be eligible for refund", you rather treat the customer like a child that has to do its homework than a king. And in the end, Steam cant live without customers, but customers could live without Steam.

Well first they're eligible if they're eligible, that's just fact. Anything over that, is a case-by-case basis.

If you feel they have to be treated like that, chances are it's because of demonstrable behavior on the users, and observation to how they react when they can't have "more". In many cases, customers do have to be treated like children as the behavior matches, they have so many ways to find out things in advance, but often jump onto things for hype/"ooh shiny" AAA sorts, or otherwise not quite well thought out decisions.

It's like most vehicle stuff, do you just buy a new random battery when needed, or do you want to bring it with you to ensure you get a battery that will fit and actually be capable of starting that vehicle? How about tires? One size does not fit all, anyone that's seen a variety of vehicles should know that, and thus should ask for help or lookup tires for their make/model/year.

Customers often think they are always right. Inexperienced businesses will sometimes state "the customer is always right". Experienced businesses will say "The customer is right when they are actually right". There's video sites, article/review sites, livestreams etc, people can easily look before they leap, so a minimum amount of research before buying would make sense especially if someone doesn't want to waste money.