Early acess needs more accountability

[zuniger]

It's really scummy that steam allows these fake games to be uploaded with devs that have 0 intentions of finishing them. Not only that but continuing to sell games that aren't even playable for years after they are completely dead. (Like no servers to even play solo) It.s ridiculous and it wouldn't be acceptable anywhere else. But video game companies apparently lie and Steam provides them a cover to do so. "This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further." Change that to "Will change further" Because if they don't plan on changing anything why would it need to be EA? Like Ive had good EA games b4 but why does Steam make So the ones that are scams are completely safe to take our money and run?

[Tito Shivan]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Yes but the steam refund doesnt take into account that the devs straight up lied and abandoned the game lol.

You're assuming malice here.

[Reggaejunkiedrew]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Publicado originalmente por Reggaejunkiedrew:

The TV analogy doesn't make any sense. When you buy a tv you are buying exactly what's advertised and are entitled to that remote and cables if it says so on the box.

When you are buying an EA game you are also getting everything you are entitled to, which is the game in whatever its current state is.

A road map is not a list promises the devs are obligated to fulfill. It's the direction they'd like to take the game in. They aren't beholden to that roadmap and it could change dramatically for any number of reasons and that's entirely within their right. If you aren't comfortable with that don't buy EA games.

Ok that is not how they normally advertise the road map, its supposed to tell us what they are adding. They will say they are not beholden to change for the sole reason of being able to add nothing if they wanted. Its scummy behavior and the argument that I just should buy them doesnt work because its not just about ME. Not only does it hurt the people buying these games it hurts the real EA devs that care about there communities. If they give us a road map then they should have to stick with it. I have a few games in my library that has said the game will add features and never do, the devs dont even have the servers running anymore lol. Why is that okay? How can I "pay attention more" to that?

I think this is the core of the problem here, a roadmap doesn't mean what you think it means.

Development is not some straight forward easy process, there are constant complications, and constant reevaluating the long term goals of the project, sometimes some things on the roadmap might not be cohesive with the design of the game but that isn't obvious until a significant way into development.

Expecting a game to follow a road map 100% is not realistic and a roadmap shouldn't make you feel safer buying an EA game from a dev you don't trust.

Start changing your perspective and expectations when you see a road map from a list of promises to the dev telling their community what they have in mind, because that's all it is.

[Crazy Tiger]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Publicado originalmente por Crazy Tiger:

Stop buying games for promises and buy them for the content that is actually there. Wishlist them and see how they progress before purchasing them.

The problem isn't Early Access or Steam, the problem is consumers not properly reading and understanding the blue banner and not being able to manage their own expectations.

No the system allows scam devs to upload with no intentions of actually finishing it. As many are saying I should just avoid EA and I am more careful then I was, but this isn't just about me either. Im not the only one with abandoned games in my library, Im not the only one who didnt refund sooner because the devs had said this, that and this. Im only suggesting that it be a little harder to scam people. If a game is uploaded to the Steam store under EA, The devs should have to add what they are promising or give refunds. I dont think that is asking much at all.

And you are still showing that you are unable to manage expectations. You purchase a product as-is at that time, you don't purchase a future "maybe". As long as you keep thinking that the promise is part of the purchase, you'll keep fooling yourself.

The store pages explicitly mentions to only purchase the game if you are satisfied as-is. Anything else you purchase the game for is on your own account and your own responsibility. So no, they shouldn't provide refunds if "promises" aren't met.

Everybody has abandoned games in their library, since every game gets abandoned when it comes to updates irrelevant on what label it has. The main issue you have is that you are focussing way too much on the label "Early Access". There have been plenty of "finished" games that were in a much worse state than many Early Access games that never got patches/updates/etc. It's not an issue with the label, it's an issue with the purchasers.

Again, don't buy a game for the promise, but for the actual content that is there at that moment. Learn to manage your expectations and adjust your purchasing habits to it.

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Ok that is not how they normally advertise the road map, its supposed to tell us what they are adding.

A road map is a plan, nothing more. Plans can and often will change. If you buy a game because of something they *might* add in the future, that is *your* choice to make and also *your* purchase responsibility to bear when it doesn't get added. You buy a product as-is at that time, you don't buy a future "what-if".

[zuniger]

Publicado originalmente por Nx Machina:

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Ok I brought the game in its current state because the devs said thats not how it will be forever, they did not say maybe they said "Will be added" Not "might be" They then abandon the game after a few months and thats my fault? How is that not a scam?

You are very aware of what EAG is - in development, may or may not progress further and there is no scam is involved because the information is CLEARY displayed on the store of what you are purchasing. Again what YOU are purchasing as no one made you purchase.

Brah my whole problem is that it is not!! They will say in forums and on the store that they will be adding features again Not maybe definite. I understand on steam side it says that and again thats my whole problem its misleading because it allows the devs to lie.

[aiusepsi]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Ok I brought the game in its current state because the devs said thats not how it will be forever,

This is the point at which you screwed up.

I don't know how they can state this any more clearly on the store page for Early Access games; do not buy assuming that the game is going to change from the state it's currently in. If you buy it on that assumption, sooner or later you're going to get burned. If you're not happy with taking that chance, don't buy Early Access games.

What you seem to want is to have your cake and eat it.

[zuniger]

Publicado originalmente por Tito Shivan:

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Yes but the steam refund doesnt take into account that the devs straight up lied and abandoned the game lol.

You're assuming malice here.

Not in all cases obviously, but what am I supposed to assume when they do that? They don't tell us anything.

[zuniger]

Publicado originalmente por aiusepsi:

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Ok I brought the game in its current state because the devs said thats not how it will be forever,

This is the point at which you screwed up.

I don't know how they can state this any more clearly on the store page for Early Access games; do not buy assuming that the game is going to change from the state it's currently in. If you buy it on that assumption, sooner or later you're going to get burned. If you're not happy with taking that chance, don't buy Early Access games.

What you seem to want is to have your cake and eat it.

No but as a dev I can just straight up lie about what I plan to add and never even fix a bug. The system is easy to abuse. But hey obviously I seem to be the going against the grain here. If more accountability was asking to much so be it. I don't really get why it out of the question but If im completely in the wrong here im not gunna keep trying to argue my point. Like I guess I will simply not buy Ea games in the future since that is the only advice Ive been given lol.

[Hamless Hog]

just done buy early access game, and only get games that are finished.

[Nx Machina]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Brah my whole problem is that it is not!! They will say in forums and on the store that they will be adding features again Not maybe definite. I understand on steam side it says that and again thats my whole problem its misleading because it allows the devs to lie.

YOU purchased the game, no one else and no one is lying as after all a roadmap is what the developer envisions the game to be without hitting any roadblocks and games evolve based on roadblocks and expectations change.

Again the store page CLEARLY states what an EAG is - in development - may or may no change further and you ignored that and purchased the game.

[aiusepsi]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

No but as a dev I can just straight up lie about what I plan to add and never even fix a bug. The system is easy to abuse.

Yeah, this is why they say to only buy the game based on the current state of it. Because like, the current state of it is a thing which definitely exists. Future things cannot be relied upon for all sorts of reasons, some of them in the dev's control, some of them not.

Early Access being not the thing you want doesn't make it a bad thing, it just means it's a thing that's not for you. Stop buying Early Access games.

[zuniger]

Publicado originalmente por Nx Machina:

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Brah my whole problem is that it is not!! They will say in forums and on the store that they will be adding features again Not maybe definite. I understand on steam side it says that and again thats my whole problem its misleading because it allows the devs to lie.

YOU purchased the game, no one else and no one is lying as after all a roadmap is what the developer envisions the game to be without hitting any roadblocks and games evolve based on roadblocks and expectations change.

Again the store page CLEARLY states what an EAG is - in development - may or may no change further and you ignored that and purchased the game.

On steams part yes, The part the devs control can say the will add whatever. The devs can also say they are 100% adding the features but because its EAG they can instead simply shut the game down.

[Bee🐝]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Publicado originalmente por Nx Machina:

You are very aware of what EAG is - in development, may or may not progress further and there is no scam is involved because the information is CLEARY displayed on the store of what you are purchasing. Again what YOU are purchasing as no one made you purchase.

Brah my whole problem is that it is not!! They will say in forums and on the store that they will be adding features again Not maybe definite. I understand on steam side it says that and again thats my whole problem its misleading because it allows the devs to lie.

So, this is about being gullible? If a dev keeps adding new "features" to the store page and showing builds that are never released, why would you buy it?

Do your research. Ask in the community. Don't just click add to cart instantly.

If you've already bought it...well then...that's EA for you and you are warned about that risk.

[zuniger]

Publicado originalmente por aiusepsi:

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

No but as a dev I can just straight up lie about what I plan to add and never even fix a bug. The system is easy to abuse.

Yeah, this is why they say to only buy the game based on the current state of it. Because like, the current state of it is a thing which definitely exists. Future things cannot be relied upon for all sorts of reasons, some of them in the dev's control, some of them not.

Early Access being not the thing you want doesn't make it a bad thing, it just means it's a thing that's not for you. Stop buying Early Access games.

What do you think I want it to be?

[Hamless Hog]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

Publicado originalmente por Nx Machina:

YOU purchased the game, no one else and no one is lying as after all a roadmap is what the developer envisions the game to be without hitting any roadblocks and games evolve based on roadblocks and expectations change.

Again the store page CLEARLY states what an EAG is - in development - may or may no change further and you ignored that and purchased the game.

On steams part yes, The part the devs control can say the will add whatever. The devs can also say they are 100% adding the features but because its EAG they can instead simply shut the game down.

you could hold off on getting the game until it hs he feature you want.

[Nx Machina]

Publicado originalmente por Stonedwalljack:

On steams part yes, The part the devs control can say the will add whatever. The devs can also say they are 100% adding the features but because its EAG they can instead simply shut the game down.

And what did Bioware promise for Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem - both abandoned games, both triple AAA games.

And again - the store page CLEARLY states what an EAG is - in development - may or may no change further and you ignored that and purchased the game.