Steam Achievement Hunters... why?

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

With programs like SAM, it kinda takes the buzz out of the whole thing, does it not?

Some of the tasks you have to do seem so tedious and to expend all that time and energy for what can be achieved with a few clicks of your mouse, don't you ever think "what's the point?"

I used to be a trophy hunter on PlayStation so I get it, you want that sense of completion, or if you're like me, you wan't to have an impressive library of platinum/100%'s you can show off. But when anyone can auto-unlock something that you choose to put hours, maybe even days into, don't you feel like it just ruins the whole ecosystem. Is there even a way to prove someone hasn't used SAM to unlock achievements in a believable order.

I'm expecting answers like "there's a small community of noble achievement hunters who compete with/or against each other under an honor system" or "I don't do it for competition, it's for my personal enjoyment" which having been there, done that, I find hard to believe in some instances. Same goes for "I like the challenge". If anyone can receive the same award it hardly makes the challenge worth pursuing, right?

Please, hunters, tell me why I'm wrong!

[Aachen]

The existence of easy methods doesn’t invalidate the sense of challenge, no.

As “anyone can cheat on taxes” is honestly paying yours also an empty pursuit?

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

I think the taxes analogy is ridiculous, cheating on achievements is not a federal crime.

But I'm interested to know, is the challenge alone what makes it worth it? Like the joy you receive from gaming is intrinsically linked to achieving those little icons legitimately.

[Aachen]

Originally posted by ♔:

I think the taxes analogy is ridiculous, cheating on achievements is not a federal crime ...

The principle-in-common is “others’ bad behavior doesn’t invalidate one’s legitimate achievements.”

....But I'm interested to know, is the challenge alone what makes it worth it? Like the joy you receive from gaming is intrinsically linked to achieving those little icons legitimately.

No, of course not.

However, I do regularly come up with conducts and challenges outside of those so noted by developers, so I’d likely do so even absent a social system such as exists here.

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

@Aachen Fair enough. But my question was regarding said challenges noted by developers themselves. I recently obtained all of the achievements for GTA V and in the back of my mind I thought about how all this grinding was pointless when others have opened up a program, clicked their mouse a few times and WOLLAH! What took me hours, they have achieved in seconds. It seems pointless to even include them at this point when it's so easy to gain them illegitimately. I'm all for setting your own challenges within games, I do it myself all the time. I'm even for games including in-game challenges that give you in-game rewards. Do we need achievements to even be there at this point?

[rawWwRrr]

So you're question isn't about why people hunt achievements. Your question is what is the point of chasing them at all if you can simply unlock them with a program? But how does the existence of the program invalidate someone's pure pursuit of them?

You already admitted to understanding the sense of completion from trophy hunting on Playstation. Would all your hard work earning all of those trophies suddenly be nullified if someone discovered a way to simply hack them on the PS? Would you stop hunting the trophies knowing that an exploit existed?

[Aachen]

None of those things, games included, are necessary.

They add value though, so if you consider “value additions” necessary (or, to be less hyperbolic, quite valuable) for success in a fairly crowded market, then “yes.”

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

Originally posted by rawWwRrr:

Would all your hard work earning all of those trophies suddenly be nullified if someone discovered a way to simply hack them on the PS? Would you stop hunting the trophies knowing that an exploit existed?

Absolutely and 100% yes. I'd feel cheated. To use a sports analogy, what if the Champions League was awarded to everyone, it wasn't televised or tracked in any way so nobody knows who actually won. With PS, the timestamps would offer some legitimacy among other trophy hunters who know what to look for, but yes. All that time I could have spent doing something else.

You'd have to be crazy to say you enjoy the collectible process or certain grindy multiplayer stuff.

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

Originally posted by Aachen:

They add value though, so if you consider “value additions” necessary (or, to be less hyperbolic, quite valuable) for success in a fairly crowded market, then “yes.”

Are they really that valuable though? I don't think most of Steam's users would be too fussed if achievements weren't included in their games honestly, in my experience it's a small group of dedicated achievement hunters that it would effect, so I believe that to some extent it's somewhat about bragging rights, otherwise, why not just set your own challenges. That being said, when anyone can achieve it, what's the point?

[Aachen]

Originally posted by ♔:

Are they really that valuable though? I don't think most of Steam's users would be too fussed if achievements weren't included in their games honestly, in my experience it's a small group of dedicated achievement hunters that it would effect, so I believe that to some extent it's somewhat about bragging rights, otherwise, why not just set your own challenges. That being said, when anyone can achieve it, what's the point?

So, then, if you acknowledge some users care quite a bit about achievements, how is offering the feature not adding value to the service? Would your hunters use a service lacking the feature equivalently?

And .... absent cheating anyone could still achieve them, could they not? I don’t see why achievements having purpose would specifically and only be linked to “can they be cheated.”

[Dynamonic]

I generally love achievements in games, but they have to be done right.

For me, the best achievements involve exploration, discovering secrets and encourage you to do something cool and unique. For example, in the Half-Life series, you get achievements for interacting with optional things in the environment. You get more than the achievement though, you often trigger new dialogue from characters, or a cool funny scene. The achievement list almost serves as a checklist that you’re getting everything out of these great games.

However, achievements are not all like that, and I’ve had to change the way I approach achievements over the years, particularly now my backlog has grown massively.
I used to be determined to 100% every game, but found myself resenting the experience in many titles, especially as more AAA titles started to feature cheap tacked on ‘Grindy’ achievements, such as ‘Win 1000 rounds of Deathmatch.’

Now, if I really love a game, I’ll 100% it to make sure I see everything it has to offer, or if I don’t, I’ll just move on to another game.

For me, that’s why I’ll get all the achievements in great titles. It’s a personal thing, as opposed to a ‘show off to everyone else’ thing. It’s a way for me to try and get everything out of the best titles.

[Aachen]

So “I feel I’ve accomplished something” is no longer a valid feeling because “oops some other user cheesed it?” Really?

Can you try to explain how rather than respond snidely?

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

Originally posted by Dynamonic:

For me, that’s why I’ll get all the achievements in great titles. It’s a personal thing, as opposed to a ‘show off to everyone else thing’. It’s a way for me to get everything out of the best titles.

That I completely understand. The achievements serve as a checklist for everything the game has to offer, which only works with games you love and want to play.

I'm trying to understand why people go out of their way to do things they don't enjoy to get an achievement that anyone can get.

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

Originally posted by Aachen:

:eaglederp: So “I feel I’ve accomplished something” is no longer a valid feeling because “oops some other user cheesed it?” Really?

Do you need achievements for that? No one is invalidating the experience. I challenge myself in games all the time.

I made that whimsical comment because you said

Originally posted by Aachen:

I don’t see why achievements having purpose would specifically and only be linked to “can they be cheated.”

Isn't that the purpose of any reward system. Medals, trophies, cups, rings. If they can be won by anyone with the press of a button, what's the point?

[Aachen]

So does the reward have purpose, or not? First it seemed “the existence of SAM means ‘no,’” but now “the experience is valid” so it would seem the experience validates it.

Originally posted by ♔:

Isn't that the purpose of any reward system. Medals, trophies, cups, rings. If they can be won by anyone with the press of a button, what's the point?

People buy all those things secondhand.

[(死) 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡]

Originally posted by Aachen:

So does the reward have purpose, or not? First it seemed “the existence of SAM means ‘no,’” but now “the experience is valid” so it would seem the experience validates it.

The experience in and of itself is valid, you don't need an achievement that can be obtained by someone who never even played the game to legitimize what you did in game.

Originally posted by Aachen:

People buy all those things secondhand.

I'm not sure that analogy works here. Is there a second hand achievement purchasing system at work idk about.