Epic & Co. - Relent already

[Helvetson]

Hi,

I own 570 game licenses on Steam by now. Mostly, because I've already had so many and I like the idea of having all of them on one single platform.

Sadly, you're running out of content, though!
Kingdom of Hearts, Keba, the new Oddworld... just to name a few games I'll probably buy at Epic's soon, unless you finally relent!

I hate the idea of exclusive deals, but even more I hate not to be able to play the games I want to, or always have to wait forever.

EA tried to make you understand that your 30% are rip-off, now are Ubi and Square Enix.

And to be really honest, I perfectly agree.
I don't see how you deserve those 30% anyway - every SINGLE time I've contacted your support I was told to rather contact the publisher's suppport instead. You don't host game servers, and your implemented Voice chat is so great, that we're using TeamSpeak or Discord anyway.

Last but not least I truly wouldn't grudge developers, who indeed put work and money into their games, more than just 70%.
Before tax BTW, if anybody should not know.

KR

more and more disappointed customer

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Helvetson eredeti hozzászólása:

Hi,

I own 570 game licenses on Steam by now. Mostly, because I've already had so many and I like the idea of having all of them on one single platform.

Sadly, you're running out of content, though!
Kingdom of Hearts, Keba, the new Oddworld... just to name a few games I'll probably buy at Epic's soon, unless you finally relent!

I hate the idea of exclusive deals, but even more I hate not to be able to play the games I want to, or always have to wait forever.

EA tried to make you understand that your 30% are rip-off, now are Ubi and Square Enix.

And to be really honest, I perfectly agree.
I don't see how you deserve those 30% anyway - every SINGLE time I've contacted your support I was told to rather contact the publisher's suppport instead. You don't host game servers, and your implemented Voice chat is so great, that we're using TeamSpeak or Discord anyway.

Last but not least I truly wouldn't grudge developers, who indeed put work and money into their games, more than just 70%.
Before tax BTW, if anybody should not know.

KR

more and more disappointed customer

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/1697191267930157838

Epic is trying to gain customers, Valve doesn't need to.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Epic makes me glad my name uses the letter y so no one thinks I love using an incomplete service.

Call me when they make Steam games launchable from their service and offer good communication features; that would just be a start. Dropping the forced exclusivity would be the next crucial step before taking them seriously.

[Start_Running]

Well enjoy shopping at Epic.
I'd say steam does more to earn their cut than Epic does. They create and provide open access to tools for developers that actually expand the playerbase for the games. for example.

Plus. the joke is Epic isn't actually making money at their revenue split currently.

[Brian9824]

Also EA came back to Steam after they realized they made far more money selling their games on Steam then their own store.

Also don't forget Epic is hemmoraging money so badly that its not even funny. $500 million dollars in just 2 years and they are not forecasted to make a penny for several years at BEST.

Combined with them losing Fortnite on IOS which was hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue they are not doing very hot...

[nullable]

More and more misinformed customers the way I read it.

Anyone hoping that a permanent status quo was going to exist with all games just being published on Steam was kidding themselves.

It's inevitable new stores will pop up. And they will try new things. And Large publishers will roll their own launchers. And move games around to various platforms to see what sticks or to see if they can negotiate preferential treatment. Things will change and evolve.

So wailing that Steam hasn't found someway to squash all competition is something I don't get. I also don't understand the wailing about how competition is preventing one from living in a gaming mono-culture.

Maybe once upon a time Steam was the only real game in town, just like Netflix was. Well it's not 2009 anymore. Sorry.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Also EA came back to Steam after they realized they made far more money selling their games on Steam then their own store.

Also don't forget Epic is hemmoraging money so badly that its not even funny. $500 million dollars in just 2 years and they are not forecasted to make a penny for several years at BEST.

Combined with them losing Fortnite on IOS which was hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue they are not doing very hot...

brian9824 eredeti hozzászólása:

Also EA came back to Steam after they realized they made far more money selling their games on Steam then their own store.

Also don't forget Epic is hemmoraging money so badly that its not even funny. $500 million dollars in just 2 years and they are not forecasted to make a penny for several years at BEST.

Combined with them losing Fortnite on IOS which was hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue they are not doing very hot...

I predict a victory with the Epic v Apple lawsuit for Epic based on judge comments and the arguments from both sides. This victory will heavily pressure Steam to change its price model too.

However, that all would not in itself turn Epic around as a store.

[Zekiran]

It won't change steam in any way. Not that they are "too big to fail" but that they're actually *a very good system and service* that has decades of experience.

[Brian9824]

EpycWyn eredeti hozzászólása:

I predict a victory with the Epic v Apple lawsuit for Epic based on judge comments and the arguments from both sides. This victory will heavily pressure Steam to change its price model too.

However, that all would not in itself turn Epic around as a store.

Most of what i've seen has the lawsuit going very badly for Epic. I mean no matter what they argue it boils down to the fact that Epic purposely and knowingly broke the apple stores terms. They planned it out, had a press release and strategy ready to go when they did, and so on.

it doesn't matter if they felt it was unfair, they could have taken them to court WITHOUT breaking the contract so they have very little ground to stand on in terms of Apple removing them.

[nullable]

EpycWyn eredeti hozzászólása:

I predict a victory with the Epic v Apple lawsuit for Epic based on judge comments and the arguments from both sides. This victory will heavily pressure Steam to change its price model too.

However, that all would not in itself turn Epic around as a store.

Be careful abut making premature judgements. The judge might ask tough questions that might make it seem like they've already made up their mind to laymen. And they might have (evolving) opinions throughout the case, but ultimately they interpret the law and there's multiple levels of appeals anyway and both companies can afford to jump through these hoops for years.

And the question is going to be in what way does it violate laws for Apple to operate its ecosystem as it sees fit? The question of them being a monopoly I don't think has any legs. So the other question is what the case really hinges on. And I don't think Epic's argument "We don't like it", has much behind it.

It's an interesting issue. But ultimately I think the real tactic is Epic knows it loses. But the case has made the issue very public and that can put a lot of pressure on Apple, Google, Valve, etc to change some things. I think that's the ultimate goal. Lose the battle, win the war. Even if Epic doesn't get everything it wants, I think they get some changes and maybe they get the image of the hero that fought a losing battle but still managed to get some victory.

It's not a bad tactic. Epic can afford it.

[Brian9824]

Snakub Plissken eredeti hozzászólása:

EpycWyn eredeti hozzászólása:

I predict a victory with the Epic v Apple lawsuit for Epic based on judge comments and the arguments from both sides. This victory will heavily pressure Steam to change its price model too.

However, that all would not in itself turn Epic around as a store.

Be careful abut making premature judgements. The judge might ask tough questions that might make it seem like they've already made up their mind to laymen. And they might have (evolving) opinions throughout the case, but ultimately they interpret the law and there's multiple levels of appeals anyway and both companies can afford to jump through these hoops for years.

And the question is going to be in what way does it violate laws for Apple to operate its ecosystem as it sees fit? The question of them being a monopoly I don't think has any legs. So the other question is what the case really hinges on.

It's an interesting issue, what are distributors who've amassed huge user bases owed? I mean clearly they're owed something. They provide a lot that developers don't really want to manage themselves. I'm not sure what the optimal percentage is. I'm not sure it's a quantifiable number. And one can always argue that it should be less (or more).

It's also the most basic question. Even if apple's ecosystem could be a monopoly did that give Epic the rights to purposely violate their contract and plan this all out in advance knowing it would be a violation of their rules

[happy]

EA and Microsoft coming both to steam says alot, its only a question of time untill mainstream income from games like Siege will dry out, and Ubisoft comes crawling back aswell. Its not a matter of IF, only a matter of WHEN!

Go buy games on epic, but dont come here asking for support when your game doesnt work.

[nullable]

Well if the Judge rules Apple's rules aren't valid, I don't think Epic's tactics to raise the issue changes the outcome.

Besides Apple already responded to Epic according to their store rules, that's been settled. The question is, is does Apple really have all that power and there's nothing developers can do but accept it or forego a huge user base? It's not "did Epic go about it the right way?"

[Muppet among Puppets]

If steam wasnt a good trade for the developers, they would still sell locally in stores.
And likely get less exposure and less than 70%.

Each time i bought at epic, they paid more than i did. And also only got 12% of the price.
Is that healthy?
For any other shop that can not afford to come out in minus?

If epic succeeds, there will be only steam, epic and every developers own stores out there.
They are the only ones who can afford that.

[Start_Running]

EpycWyn eredeti hozzászólása:

I predict a victory with the Epic v Apple lawsuit for Epic based on judge comments and the arguments from both sides. This victory will heavily pressure Steam to change its price model too.

However, that all would not in itself turn Epic around as a store.

What trial are you watching. FRom what I've seen rApple pretty much has the matter sewn up. What we have here is a clear and malicious breach of contract on Epics part. Apple in the mean while has managed to argue well that their walled garden provides a unique feature to its users...that of basic quality assurance and safety, while at the same tinme providing a willingness to work with their business partners on projects.

In otherwords. It can be debated whether Apple is a monopoly, and whether or not anyone has a 'right to sell' on someone else's store. But what is not a matter of debate is whether or nor not Epic committed a malicious, premeditated breach of contract.

And their Google cvase is even on shakier ground because it 's the same thing as apple but even less of a case to be made for Google having a monopoly.

The fact that tencent's recent gaming ventures have not panned out too well is probably getting sweeny a lot of hard looks .

Snakub Plissken eredeti hozzászólása:

It's an interesting issue. But ultimately I think the real tactic is Epic knows it loses. But the case has made the issue very public and that can put a lot of pressure on Apple, Google, Valve, etc to change some things.

Maybe but lets be frank, that depends on the education level of said public.
to the average gamer who knows nothing about what goes on under the hood, it seems like a lot. To anyone who's done a bit of COmp Sci or IT, yeah you start seeing the 30% as a bargain. I mean if you could do better you'd do it yourself.

At the end of the day services are provided and the provider may charge what they determine their service to be worth. Just like you can ask for whatever wage you think your talents are worth at a job interview...course if the other party disagrees they are free to do without and go their own way.

Which is what EA, and MS did for a while...turns out they realizzed that a reasonable valu after all.

Also wworth noting that in physical media , the publishers generally have to supply the store at a rate of *at least* 30% discount.

I think that's the ultimate goal. Lose the battle, win the war. Even if Epic doesn't get everything it wants, I think they get some changes and maybe they get the image of the hero that fought a losing battle but still managed to get some victory.

It's not a bad tactic. Epic can afford it.

I dunno. Even among gamers the the opinion of EPic is souring because even the average gamer is noticing that the lower cut...doesn't give any value to them. Since they are paying the same price. and its not like the dev/pubs are being any less greedy.

Besides if Epic really wanted to throw devs a bone they'd lower the licensinge fee on the unreal engine.

[ezwip]

Epic aren't so bad. They don't even have a forum so I don't even get warned for failing to contribute adequately to the discussion and goofy things like that. Their complete lack of communication is like a warm cozy blanket to me.