Family sharing, one-game-at-a-time limit doesn't make sense

[gamegame44332211]

When the steam library is shared, only one game can be played at the same time.
So if A is play in PC-A then B on PC-B cannot play any other games at the same time.

That doesn't make sense.

If I owned a physical copies of all those games, I should be able to share those games freely with my friends and family. The only limit would be not able to play the same game at the same time.

What happen now is as if I lent one of my game-disc to my friend, then when he/she is playing that single game, all my other game-disc are mysteriously locked, wth?

[Boblin the Goblin]

İlk olarak brian9824 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Tito Shivan tarafından gönderildi:

Locked hardware. You don't get to decide how the console behaves. That's quite different in PCs.


Since there's no way to certify the actual owner is the one running the account (Short of going into Orwellians levels of DRM) Most control systems rely on the fact humans can't bilocate and play two games at the same time at different places to use concurrent usage as a means of control.

It's kind of 'the best that we have' in regards usage control mechanics. And it's a pretty widespread policy with more or less restrictions.

And even that you can get around it for personal use with offline mode which is well known

Not for Family Sharing. If the shared account goes offline, none of the games are playable to the other.

[Tito Shivan]

İlk olarak brian9824 tarafından gönderildi:

And even that you can get around it for personal use with offline mode which is well known

Which let's not forget it's more of a side effect than a feature.

[Brian9824]

İlk olarak Tito Shivan tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak brian9824 tarafından gönderildi:

And even that you can get around it for personal use with offline mode which is well known

Which let's not forget it's more of a side effect than a feature.

Yeah but its basically known to every dev, its just an acceptable risk of fraud and limited. Versus opening it up and hoping people don't abuse it

[Pscht]

İlk olarak Tito Shivan tarafından gönderildi:

(Short of going into Orwellians levels of DRM)

Remember when the Xbox One came with a forced use of Kinect?

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Wow, like a hundred new posts, many from people who can't seem to understand the idea that separate games should be separate.


> licensing

Y'know, pretty much anything could be written in a license. You can write absolutely absurd terms into a license. There's a reason why the Devil is associated, among other things, with fine print used to screw people over.

Just because it's in a license doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense in real life.


> piracy

Steam itself isn't designed to be some sort of absolute defense against piracy; it's designed to only deter "very casual" piracy, according to official documentation that's shown to game devs.

As has been often noted before, one can get around Family Sharing restrictions by simply playin in Offline Mode, which is a built-in Steam feature. (No need to even set up a VPN or some other technical thing!)

On top of this, there's a bunch of games on Steam that don't even have DRM.


> "publishers will pull their games from Steam"

They put games here not because Steam provides strong technical defense against piracy (it very clearly does not warrant itself to be such), but because the customer base is so freaking huge.

Making Family Sharing more about actually sharing games among family members is not going to change the fact that Steam's customer base is so freaking huge.

İlk olarak ÁROCK!!! tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Bee tarafından gönderildi:

Say it with me:

Two differnt people. Two different games. One Library, with a single recognised owner, who paid for a single person - the owner of the account - to play that game on a single license. Makes total sense.

.

Going by that logic, no one other than the "single recognised owner" should be able to play any of the games.

Sorry, but it does not make sense to limit family sharing to one active user at a time.

There is no legitimate difference between me and one of my family members playing 2 different games at the same time than me playing from 5pm to 7pm and then my family member playing from 7pm to 9pm.

The library is being shared and only one license for each game has been purchased, meaning the end result is the same either way

This.

[Boblin the Goblin]

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

Wow, like a hundred new posts, many from people who can't seem to understand the idea that separate games should be separate.

No, people completely understand that. Doesn't change anything that's been said.

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

> licensing

Y'know, pretty much anything could be written in a license. You can write absolutely absurd terms into a license. There's a reason why the Devil is associated, among other things, with fine print used to screw people over.

Just because it's in a license doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense in real life.

It makes since. You are purchasing a license to play a single instance of that game on your account. As long as that account is and that game being played, that license is in use. Your Steam account also has a license of one active machine and user at a time. So if your account is in use, that license is being used.

You agreed to this when you created your account.

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

> piracy

Steam itself isn't designed to be some sort of absolute defense against piracy; it's designed to only deter "very casual" piracy, according to official documentation that's shown to game devs.

As has been often noted before, one can get around Family Sharing restrictions by simply playin in Offline Mode, which is a built-in Steam feature. (No need to even set up a VPN or some other technical thing!)

On top of this, there's a bunch of games on Steam that don't even have DRM.

You can't get around the Family share limitation like that. If the account that is sharing is offline, it will require the other user to purchase the games. It will not allow them to launch the games. Steam has an offline mode and the devs are fully aware of this. This is because Steam is aware that the internet is not equal everywhere and they want you to enjoy your library when offline because of it.

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

> "publishers will pull their games from Steam"

They put games here not because Steam provides strong technical defense against piracy (it very clearly does not warrant itself to be such), but because the customer base is so freaking huge.

Making Family Sharing more about actually sharing games among family members is not going to change the fact that Steam's customer base is so freaking huge.

With a customer base so huge, you just argued for the current restriction. If everyone is allowed to family share without the current restriction, that's potentially billions in loss. That's all publishers care about.

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak ÁROCK!!! tarafından gönderildi:

Going by that logic, no one other than the "single recognised owner" should be able to play any of the games.

Sorry, but it does not make sense to limit family sharing to one active user at a time.

There is no legitimate difference between me and one of my family members playing 2 different games at the same time than me playing from 5pm to 7pm and then my family member playing from 7pm to 9pm.

The library is being shared and only one license for each game has been purchased, meaning the end result is the same either way

This.

It is impossible without some extremely invasive measures to verify the person at the machine is the account owner every single time. No only is it highly unethical and possibly illegal, it would also be horrible expensive and cumbersome to the point of people just refusing to buy products.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

İlk olarak KittenGrindr tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

> licensing

Y'know, pretty much anything could be written in a license. You can write absolutely absurd terms into a license. There's a reason why the Devil is associated, among other things, with fine print used to screw people over.

Just because it's in a license doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense in real life.

It makes since. You are purchasing a license to play a single instance of that game on your account. As long as that account is and that game being played, that license is in use. Your Steam account also has a license of one active machine and user at a time. So if your account is in use, that license is being used.

You agreed to this when you created your account.

This whole reasoning amounts to "this is just how the rules were written and thus you must follow them". This doesn't even ask whether those rules make sense in reality.

I'll come back to this in a moment.

İlk olarak KittenGrindr tarafından gönderildi:

With a customer base so huge, you just argued for the current restriction. If everyone is allowed to family share without the current restriction, that's potentially billions in loss. That's all publishers care about.

I'd like to point out that most Steam users do not even know each other, let alone live with each other and be comfortable sharing games.

İlk olarak KittenGrindr tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

This.

It is impossible without some extremely invasive measures to verify the person at the machine is the account owner every single time. No only is it highly unethical and possibly illegal, it would also be horrible expensive and cumbersome to the point of people just refusing to buy products.

And here I return to the thing I was going to talk about in a moment.

You're seeing the limit of how much an arbitrary set of rules can affect how reality works. Reality doesn't necessarily conform to those rules, and sometimes for good reason.

Which is why I think that it's better to not have rules that are just being a pain in the butt, but rather to specify restrictions in more reasonable manners.

[Boblin the Goblin]

İlk olarak Quint the Alligator Snapper tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak KittenGrindr tarafından gönderildi:

It makes since. You are purchasing a license to play a single instance of that game on your account. As long as that account is and that game being played, that license is in use. Your Steam account also has a license of one active machine and user at a time. So if your account is in use, that license is being used.

You agreed to this when you created your account.

This whole reasoning amounts to "this is just how the rules were written and thus you must follow them". This doesn't even ask whether those rules make sense in reality.

I'll come back to this in a moment.

İlk olarak KittenGrindr tarafından gönderildi:

With a customer base so huge, you just argued for the current restriction. If everyone is allowed to family share without the current restriction, that's potentially billions in loss. That's all publishers care about.

I'd like to point out that most Steam users do not even know each other, let alone live with each other and be comfortable sharing games.

İlk olarak KittenGrindr tarafından gönderildi:

It is impossible without some extremely invasive measures to verify the person at the machine is the account owner every single time. No only is it highly unethical and possibly illegal, it would also be horrible expensive and cumbersome to the point of people just refusing to buy products.

And here I return to the thing I was going to talk about in a moment.

You're seeing the limit of how much an arbitrary set of rules can affect how reality works. Reality doesn't necessarily conform to those rules, and sometimes for good reason.

Which is why I think that it's better to not have rules that are just being a pain in the butt, but rather to specify restrictions in more reasonable manners.

The current restriction is reasonable. The rules do make sense in reality. The whole point of Family share is to share your games with someone. It isn't to have a Valve approved account sharing, which is what it would be without the current restrictions.

[bones3dfc]

"Account" continues to be used in place of "Library." This is not an account issue.
And... back about 30 posts ago... my daughter and I do NOT share an account and it is NOT "like" that in any way.

I don't know why many of you seem to be crusading for Valve, in the name of an out-of-date platform. I have my suspicions you're simply here to confuse the issue. If you like the way things are, be on your way, go... enjoy

This is about Family-Sharing, Valve trapped in time and apparently DRM.

It's 2022
Your DRM approach to any of this?
Apple, Spotify, Netflix, Disney - on and on and on and on AND ON - have family-sharing. I won't argue exact prices with you but generally a single subscription is $15 and family subscriptions are $20.. or whatever the price/increase structure may be.

Don't bother telling me "games" are in a category all by themselves. Sounds lonely.
This entire household can all listen to the same song on multiple devices.
Same with movies.. same with TV shows. All purchased. All legal. All the time. Any time.
And for that matter - I don't even want to share the same game with my family. It's THE OTHER GAMES. Valve has essentially rendered all other devices in the home unusable as far as Valve is concerned.

It has to stop. Valve has to change.
And unless you work for Valve, why would you get involved? We don't need your personal opinion about how your life is wonderful. You have no skin in this game. Why must you watch yourself type all this nonsense?

Valve needs to change. Period. Different ACCOUNTS need to be able to use different devices to use - not even the SAME but - DIFFERENT games. Valve doesn't think so.
Valve needs to change.

What you're trying to tell me is - I should walk around the house inputting my credit card numbers into 17 different devices. And for children no less. Yes! I buy the games! One kid wants to play Assassin's Creed and one kid wants to play The Infected. Valve won't allow this.
That's what this is about. Valve needs to change.

If you don't "think so" and you don't WORK for Valve then feel free to go find a thread about how much you love not having a family and not sharing with your own children.

This is to let Valve know: you need to change!

[Boblin the Goblin]

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

"Account" continues to be used in place of "Library." This is not an account issue.
And... back about 30 posts ago... my daughter and I do NOT share an account and it is NOT "like" that in any way.

I don't know why many of you seem to be crusading for Valve, in the name of an out-of-date platform. I have my suspicions you're simply here to confuse the issue. If you like the way things are, be on your way, go... enjoy

This is about Family-Sharing, Valve trapped in time and apparently DRM.

It's 2022
Your DRM approach to any of this?
Apple, Spotify, Netflix, Disney - on and on and on and on AND ON - have family-sharing. I won't argue exact prices with you but generally a single subscription is $15 and family subscriptions are $20.. or whatever the price/increase structure may be.

Don't bother telling me "games" are in a category all by themselves. Sounds lonely.
This entire household can all listen to the same song on multiple devices.
Same with movies.. same with TV shows. All purchased. All legal. All the time. Any time.
And for that matter - I don't even want to share the same game with my family. It's THE OTHER GAMES. Valve has essentially rendered all other devices in the home unusable as far as Valve is concerned.

It has to stop. Valve has to change.
And unless you work for Valve, why would you get involved? We don't need your personal opinion about how your life is wonderful. You have no skin in this game. Why must you watch yourself type all this nonsense?

Valve needs to change. Period. Different ACCOUNTS need to be able to use different devices to use - not even the SAME but - DIFFERENT games. Valve doesn't think so.
Valve needs to change.

What you're trying to tell me is - I should walk around the house inputting my credit card numbers into 17 different devices. And for children no less. Yes! I buy the games! One kid wants to play Assassin's Creed and one kid wants to play The Infected. Valve won't allow this.
That's what this is about. Valve needs to change.

If you don't "think so" and you don't WORK for Valve then feel free to go find a thread about how much you love not having a family and not sharing with your own children.

This is to let Valve know: you need to change!

Family Sharing would be no different than account sharing without the current restriction. Family Sharing is just a streamlined version of logging into someone else's account on your own device. That's why the current restriction is in place.

If they removed it, Valve will have just endorsed account sharing. Just under a different name.

[Brian9824]

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

"Account" continues to be used in place of "Library." This is not an account issue.
And... back about 30 posts ago... my daughter and I do NOT share an account and it is NOT "like" that in any way.

It really is the same thing. Family sharing is just a method in which you can share your account without having to give away your credentials. The account is still limited to be used by a single person. Either the original account holder, or another designated account

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

I don't know why many of you seem to be crusading for Valve, in the name of an out-of-date platform. I have my suspicions you're simply here to confuse the issue. If you like the way things are, be on your way, go... enjoy

Not really out of date as other game platforms don't provide a way for you to access other people's accounts at all for the most part.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

It's 2022
Your DRM approach to any of this?
Apple, Spotify, Netflix, Disney - on and on and on and on AND ON - have family-sharing. I won't argue exact prices with you but generally a single subscription is $15 and family subscriptions are $20.. or whatever the price/increase structure may be.

All of those are subscriptions for households, and stuff like gamepass for instance isn't meant to be shared even if people do share it, hence why they are coming out with a family pass.

AFAIK no way for someone else to share their PSN account with you, xbox account, epic account, battle.net account, ubisoft account, etc. Again Music, TV, and Movies have completely different licensing then software. You keep comparing two vastly different products expecting them to be the same....

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

Don't bother telling me "games" are in a category all by themselves. Sounds lonely.

They aren't, SOFTWARE on the other hand IS in tis own category.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

This entire household can all listen to the same song on multiple devices.
Same with movies.. same with TV shows. All purchased. All legal. All the time. Any time.

Yep, again music, movies, tv, etc are not software and they don't have the same type of licensing that software does. You have a non commercial license for stuff like that, whose licensing details are unique to that type of media....

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

It has to stop. Valve has to change.
And unless you work for Valve, why would you get involved? We don't need your personal opinion about how your life is wonderful. You have no skin in this game. Why must you watch yourself type all this nonsense?

It does effect everyone, lost sales would result in price increases for games, increased dlc, or other avenues as developers seek to make up for lost revenue.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

Valve needs to change. Period. Different ACCOUNTS need to be able to use different devices to use - not even the SAME but - DIFFERENT games. Valve doesn't think so.
Valve needs to change.

There is no limit for different accounts, ite the same account being accessed, which is where the limitation occurs.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

What you're trying to tell me is - I should walk around the house inputting my credit card numbers into 17 different devices. And for children no less. Yes! I buy the games! One kid wants to play Assassin's Creed and one kid wants to play The Infected. Valve won't allow this.
That's what this is about. Valve needs to change.

If you don't "think so" and you don't WORK for Valve then feel free to go find a thread about how much you love not having a family and not sharing with your own children.

This is to let Valve know: you need to change!

Time to start reading what you sign up for and educating yourself on the basics of software law. Family sharing is fully optional and isn't even a requirement. Every developer could opt out of it if they wanted and the ONLY reason it even exists as is, is BECAUSE of those limitations.

[Tito Shivan]

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

"Account" continues to be used in place of "Library." This is not an account issue.
And... back about 30 posts ago... my daughter and I do NOT share an account and it is NOT "like" that in any way.

Library and account are equitative terms in this discussion.

But most important: In regards this discussion your 'Library' is a unitary object. You cannot share parts of your library like you cannot share songs of an album or chapters in a book. Only one person can make use of the item at the same time.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

What you're trying to tell me is - I should walk around the house inputting my credit card numbers into 17 different devices. And for children no less. Yes! I buy the games!

You can gift games to other accounts.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

One kid wants to play Assassin's Creed and one kid wants to play The Infected. Valve won't allow this.
That's what this is about. Valve needs to change.

You buy one kid AC and the other one The Infected. In the long run they'll be more thankful they have their own libraries.

[bones3dfc]

Yep
You two are only here for the "last word" effect and all you're saying is gobblety goop blah blah plop fizz so Cap'n Crunch and Peanut Butter and Jelly and yadda yadda yadda. You're bots, trying to end a conversation and you don't even get it. You just. keep. typing. Now you'll have to type to let me know that I too keep typing. Blah blah blah blah blah software up your blah blahs
You guys are the "unreasonable police" trying to crack me. It's not working.

I'm right. you are wrong. Valve is wrong.
I want to play game A on computer A while a child in my house wants to play an entirely, separately purchased game B on computer B. Valve says we can't do that. That is the point and you are not addressing the point.

Valve needs to change. 2 different computers should be allowed to play two different games.
But... keep posting about account sharing and software licenses.

2 different computers. 2 different games. DIFFERENT. PAYED FOR.
Say it and admit it or you are simply here to confuse the issue.

2 different games. 2 different computers. 2 different accounts. Valve says no.
Valve is wrong. Valve needs to change. If you want to play "last word" I can wait another 5 months for a "bump."

[Brian9824]

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

Yep
You two are only here for the "last word" effect and all you're saying is gobblety goop blah blah plop fizz so Cap'n Crunch and Peanut Butter and Jelly and yadda yadda yadda. You're bots, trying to end a conversation and you don't even get it. You just. keep. typing. Now you'll have to type to let me know that I too keep typing. Blah blah blah blah blah software up your blah blahs
You guys are the "unreasonable police" trying to crack me. It's not working.

Don't really care if its working, your spouting gibberish comparing items that are not comparible while having no clue how software licensing works.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

I'm right. you are wrong. Valve is wrong.

Nope, not only are you wrong, but you agreed to the terms when you bought the games.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

I want to play game A on computer A while a child in my house wants to play an entirely, separately purchased game B on computer B. Valve says we can't do that. That is the point and you are not addressing the point.

As you were told child can play game B in steam offline mode.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

Valve needs to change. 2 different computers should be allowed to play two different games.
But... keep posting about account sharing and software licenses.

Two different computers are allowed to play two different games, you just have to be in offline mode on the 2nd computer, or using a different account.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

2 different computers. 2 different games. DIFFERENT. PAYED FOR.
Say it and admit it or you are simply here to confuse the issue.

Again offline mode, or buy the games on 2 different accounts

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

2 different games. 2 different computers. 2 different accounts. Valve says no.
Valve is wrong. Valve needs to change. If you want to play "last word" I can wait another 5 months for a "bump."

Nope your wrong, and you can bump it all you want, you'll just end up banned from the forums as bumping is against the rules. Yet another point you are wrong on.

[bones3dfc]

İlk olarak Tito Shivan tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

"Account" continues to be used in place of "Library." This is not an account issue.
And... back about 30 posts ago... my daughter and I do NOT share an account and it is NOT "like" that in any way.

Library and account are equitative terms in this discussion.

But most important: In regards this discussion your 'Library' is a unitary object. You cannot share parts of your library like you cannot share songs of an album or chapters in a book. Only one person can make use of the item at the same time.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

What you're trying to tell me is - I should walk around the house inputting my credit card numbers into 17 different devices. And for children no less. Yes! I buy the games!

You can gift games to other accounts.

İlk olarak bones3dfc tarafından gönderildi:

One kid wants to play Assassin's Creed and one kid wants to play The Infected. Valve won't allow this.
That's what this is about. Valve needs to change.

You buy one kid AC and the other one The Infected. In the long run they'll be more thankful they have their own libraries.

I'd say "this is the stupidest" of all the things posted thus far - but what is really going on: you don't have kids. You have no idea what you're talking about. I SHOULD NOT have to have separate libraries. I don't care how many songs are on an album - the albums are all in the same box - not to mention the entire family can listen to all the songs AT THE SAME TIME.

I want to play TWO DIFFERENT games at the same time and scroll up - I'm NOT starting 17 libraries on 23 devices - all having the same credit card numbers ANYWAY.